A New Way of Looking at Interest- 1st successful Claim - N'wide

[daz1981]

Will do, thanks again for the help

[bill-k]

Hey - just quickly - before you do - have you checked Mindzai & Lucid's particulars of claim, posted earlier (this thread) ?

They seem to have a legitimate way of claiming the highest rate in the first instance, but allowing a fallback to lower rates if rejected. At least you then get a chance of the big figure, don't you ?? !!

[Wheresmewallet]

Now I have sent in my N1 Form (12 days ago). Is it too late to claim Contractual Rate Of Interest?

 

I have only claimed for the Charges and Interest using the english advanced excel spreadsheets

[bram stoker]

Now I have sent in my N1 Form (12 days ago). Is it too late to claim Contractual Rate Of Interest?

 

I have only claimed for the Charges and Interest using the english advanced excel spreadsheets

Amending your claim at this stage will incur a non-refundable court fee. An amendment like this would also appear to the judge to be just greedy. I'd leave it if I were you.

[PhantomReclaimer]

I'm not keen myself on the unauthorised rate - yet. I need to be convinced. I do think the authorised one is fair.

 

I'm very keen on it:D I'm just not 100% convinced that it is right to apply. The argument does work in my mind though - it would, of course.

 

Like I said above, the chances are that the bank will have been re-lending your money at this rate so if you don't charge them it then they are still coming out ahead on the deal because they will still be showing a profit for having taken your money unlawfully.

 

P.

[Wheresmewallet]

Amending your claim at this stage will incur a non-refundable court fee. An amendment like this would also appear to the judge to be just greedy. I'd leave it if I were you.

 

That's what I was thinking (eventually)

 

Thanks for the reply Vamps:)

[tim2718281]

By the way, there a quick way to roughly assess compound growth: you estimate the "doubling time", by dividing the percentage interest rate into 72.

 

At 14% compound interest, amounts double about every five years

 

At 18% compound interest, amounts double every four years

 

At 24% compound interest, amounts double every three years

 

At 29% compound interest, amounts double every two-and-a-half years.

 

So, as has been mentioned, if you have an amount charged five years ago, and you claim compound interest at 29%, you will be claiming about *four times* the original charge.

 

The sheer numbers involved often surprise people. But, don't forget, this is how banks, credit cards companies, building societies, and so on, all work out the interest on money you owe them.

 

Tim

[Glenn UK]

We're all novices. I never even had a claim.

 

Have you thought about not splitting it? It would take you into fast-track, give you possible (but improbable in my opinion) exposure to limited costs of approx £800 I think. The court fee is slightly higher starting at £250 (again, I think) - but you get that back of course.

 

How brave are you? Do you really think the bank will stand up in court and state their costs?

 

Oh, and I'm not sure, but you might be able to get disclosure on a fast-track.

 

in my case vampiress, if i dont split the claim using contractual interest i end up in multi track.

 

I spoke to the court to make sure of the implications, I was advised by the listings clerk in my local cc who spoke to a judge that i could enter the whole amount and write asking for it to be allocated to fast track, well i suppose since its legally simple even the SCC.

 

If the court decided to allocate to multi track on the basis of the value, then i could submit a revision to drop the claim below the threshold value for fast track.

 

I chickened out!!! My thought process was that if the claim was allocated to mult track and i revised it then the court wasnt obliged to re allocate it, since the value limits are guidance.

 

Bearing in mind the courts desire to make a test case, one where the claimant was asking for compound interest, going back more than six years and with a signficant sum would to seem interesting potentially.

 

In my case i was also estimating a signficnat proportion due to the bank not having sent me the statements, so on that basis i can submit my 1st claim with the statments info i have, and wait for the rest.

 

This has the advantage that should the defendant at some stage ask for my second claim to be struck out i have a legititmate reason for making two claims. This presumes that the 1st claim goes to court.

 

Of course if it doesnt go to court then its no problem to submit the second and potentially third claims to claim back all the charges lost plus interest paid and of course compound interest.

 

So am i brave, nope!!!

 

 

Glenn

[Glenn UK]

Re what rate to charge the banks/cc companies.

 

In my mind its difficult to argue logically against using their highest rates.

 

The reason is simple for you to say that theres some mutuality and reciprocity about the contract, well if you use the defednants money without their permission what rate do they charge you?

 

Certainly banks apply their highest rates and since I havent spent as much time reviewing CC rates im not certain i presume they do the same, the logic is perfectly clear in my mind.

 

If you feel this is somehow unjust then you may be right morally, but if thats the case then it would seem that the banks rates are unjust too and it seems entirely right to apply their own penalties to them when they have applied them to you unlawfully.

 

I have to say that the money resulting out of the contractual interest is extremely inviting and perhaps this is making everyone a little greedy, or a lot in my case.

 

But then I think back over the years and remember all the frustration and anger when I was struggling financially to be told, 'sorry were only allowed to refund one set of charges per year/6 months, or no we cant increase your overdraft to cover that £5 or similar.' My bank would never allow me to talk to the debt management dept until i actually stopped paying money into the account, they refused point blank on customer help to do anything other than basically say tough luck mate.

 

For me I was on the verge of bankruptcy and probably loosing my wife and family. i cannot claim it was all down to bank charges, but it certainly didnt help.

 

On balance i think the excess overdraft rate is logically and morally the right rate to charge.

 

JMHO

 

glenn

[bram stoker]

I've always thought dividing it up on a time-scale is the best, starting with the newest, being the easiest to get refunded.

 

The more I think about this Glenn, the more I agree, personally. They have taken money from you without your "authority", therefore charge them the "unauthorised" interest rate.

 

I figure start at the top, and the amount can only go down.

 

It's not my claim to play with though, none of them are, and each individual must decide for themselves what they want to do. I just help calculate.

 

If I win the lottery I'd like to see someone through multi-track and force this test case and get disclosure. Satisfaction would be great.

[bram stoker]

Anyway, they keep changing tactics and moving the goalposts, just so that we can enforce the common law. Ridiculous. We should be hitting them with a hard fist for what they do and claim all you can get. Change tactics ourselves and go for the lot "Compounded contractual interest at their unauthorised borrowing rate". Let them suffer penalties.

[Glenn UK]

I figure start at the top, and the amount can only go down.

 

 

i also think this is a key point, the courts cannot increase the amount you claim, so if you go in asking for 16% and they think that actually you should have claimed 28% its tough.

 

So start high and the court will amend it if it sees fit.

 

I have just sent in my claim for contractual at 28.7% and asked in the alternate for Sec 69 interest.

 

I dont see the choices being difficult legally. If youre entitled to claim contractual interest then i dont see that giving the court several rates helps. I could of course be completely wrong but thats the stance ive taken.

 

Glenn

[daz1981]

I think i'm gonna try for the unauthorised rate, and fall back on the s69 if this is deemed excessive. My reasoning behind this is that the whole basis of the claim is that the charges weren't authorised and they are unlawful, therefore by claiming the authorised rate, I am in fact stating that I authorised the charges to go ahead, if you see what I mean. Even if this is rejected and I only get the 8%, it's only 1.8% difference from the authorised rate (which is about £20-£30), so I might as well go for the higher amount

 

I suppose this could even be used as a defence for the bank in court, although a very weak one. In that by claiming the authorised rate, I am in fact admitting that the charges were justified, and it could work against me.

[bram stoker]

by claiming the authorised rate, I am in fact stating that I authorised the charges to go ahead

Excellent point! Have a hundred brownie points.

[Seminole]

Anyway, they keep changing tactics and moving the goalposts, just so that we can enforce the common law. Ridiculous. We should be hitting them with a hard fist for what they do and claim all you can get. Change tactics ourselves and go for the lot "Compounded contractual interest at their unauthorised borrowing rate". Let them suffer penalties.

 

Totally agree. The banks have driven a coach and horses through the rule of law over this issue. They then run away from the consequences like pathetic cowards. They won't defend claims but won't generally refund either. I think everyone should very seriously consider claiming compound contractual interest at the unauthorised rate. They think that if they ignore us, we will go away and it won't cost them much. It's time that they were made to realise otherwise.

[bill-k]

The previous bunch of posts have encouraged me no end. I have now sent in four SCC claims at Anuathorised Contractual Rate (Compounded Daily), thanks to the help of all of you.

Yes Daz - that is an interesting point about the possible implication of claiming the Authorised Rate. However, you might perhaps be able to argue that you only gave your authority because the bank(s) misled you into believing that the charges were lawful. Ball back in their court ?

Glenn - thanks to your earlier warnings (about my "gung-ho" attitude !!), I have decided to split one of my claims as I believe you are doing. Contractual over the past 6 years, then Contractual over the prior 20 - odd years (I'm awaiting my SAR reply, and I don't know how far they'll go back with that). I've got statements going back to 1990, so I can provide evidence for an estimate of the previous years to that. Can you, Vamps or anybody come up with a good way of calculating that estimate ? So far, I've just taken the charges over the past 15 years, and then estimated "pro-rata" for the previous 10 (ie., 40%). Not sure if that is "Court-friendly" though.

If I get it all back at Contractual Unauthorised Compounded Daily Rate, it looks like I'll have enough to finance a private army. Then it'll be "Gung-Ho," - "Banzai," - and "Sssh - Don't tell them, Pike." !!!

I think I'm giving my age away a bit, here.

[Glenn UK]

Bill

 

what i did was count all the different type of charges i had e.g x bounced DDs, y refused SOs, etc

 

Then i counted the number of statements which i had, n.

 

Then i divided the number of a particular type of charges by the number of months of statements i had. this gives you the frequency that the particular charge occurs, so for DDs in this case it would be x/n = DD(frequency) per calender month.

 

Then for any given month you can work out what the average charge would be for bounced DDs based on the relevant fee for that at the time.

 

You do this with each type of charge for the whole of the period.

 

its ok of course if you know how much the bank charged for a bounced DD in 1997 or whenever. If you dont then you either have to find out or estimate.

 

When you tot it all up what you end up with is a charge per calender month based on the frequency and type of charges you have incurred.

 

Whats good in my view about doing this is that the monthly charge reflects the changes in the charges the banks applied to you and so seems very reasonable. in terms of what date to apply to the estimate i used the 16th day of each month being in the middle more or less.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[thewifeandI]

I did a similar exercise, using the oldest charge rate I had statements for. I didn't calculate interest on charges for the estimated amount as there's no way to work it out.

[bill-k]

Thanks Glenn & Jeep - yes it helps. I'll try Glenn's method. I might also try some kind of graph method to extrapolate backwards (or is that interpolate ?) in order to estimate the probable SIZE of such charges in the un-statemented years. At least will show some willing to estimate fairly. I will, however wait until I get the SAR info back to see if the bank provides it (AS IF). If they don't, I'll write and specifically ask them. Their reply ("no can do" is expected from them) will then support my need to estimate.

How's that sound ?

PS - can anyone give Redsue some support - she can't believe her spreadsheet when she compares Contractual with Statutory and is about to send her LBA claiming Stat. only ?

[taylormandy]

Totally agree. The banks have driven a coach and horses through the rule of law over this issue. They then run away from the consequences like pathetic cowards. They won't defend claims but won't generally refund either. I think everyone should very seriously consider claiming compound contractual interest at the unauthorised rate. They think that if they ignore us, we will go away and it won't cost them much. It's time that they were made to realise otherwise.

 

I claimed (and received) unauthorised contractual rate at 24.9%. I had severed my claim and this was the most recent portion (2004-2006) so the charges only went back a couple of years.

I'm sure there are some who will shake their heads in dismay at my ignorance, but when I was looking into the question of interest rates back in July, there were only the 2 spreadsheet available, simple and complex and I wasn't even aware of the compound v simple interest discussion.

 

As I freely admit, I am a complete novice at all of this and just changed the 8% to 24.9% in the relevent column in the advanced spreadsheet.

 

For some reason, my computer keeps closing down the internet when I click on my own thread in Nationwide Successes, so I am responding in this thread, which it doesn't seem to mind me doing!

[thewifeandI]

Please stop closing down the internet - the rest of us are trying to use it

[bill-k]

Quite right, Jeep. I was wondering who kept doing that. Now pack it in and get off the line, Taylormandy !!

 

Seriously - well done, guys. I heard about your recent success via Dolly on another thread. I'd like to check your thread out in detail, but some swine keeps switching off the lights !!!

[bram stoker]

The previous bunch of posts have encouraged me no end.

That's why we're here.

[taylormandy]

Please stop closing down the internet - the rest of us are trying to use it

 

I've just displayed my ignorance of all things technical again haven't I!!

 

It must just be my internet connection that is lost when I click on certain threads then! (including my own!)

[Glenn UK]

There was a win a while back using contractual interest, only the calculations didn't quite add up. The bank still paid though.

 

I've now created all spreadsheets that I can think of for claiming bank charges with contractual interest, and compounded contractual interest. See my sig and feel free to use the templates.

 

Vampiress

 

I have to ask a stupid question, im a bloke so forgive me before I start please?

 

Anyway when i saw your post quoted above i presumed you had prepared a revised spreadsheet with contractual interest and it could be obtained by clicking on the link to your chamber.

 

However, that link takes me to a google page for sharing spreadsheets and a log in for google.

 

Is this right and am i doing something wrong, apart from being a bloke that is?

 

Cheers

 

Glenn