help - can they make me repay o/draft with refund

[Glenn UK]

You seem to insist over and over again that this overdraft has to be paid back immediately.

 

I a not insisting anything just explaining to you that the bank has the right to offset against your debt and thats that they do.

 

I am sure that many of us live in out overdrafts, not ideal but thats how it is.......why should I be forced to pay back my overdraft with the charges refund? I do have an agreement with the bank which allows me to use that OD amount. And they can rescind it when they want.

 

Really, that fact that these charges are applied when I am in my OD is irrelevant. It's simply a starting point, whether my account is £100 in credit or £100 in debt the fact is that when an unlawful charge is debited from the account the bank is denying me access to funds I am legally entitled to. END OF! but only until they decide otherwise.

 

Take the example that was given to me.......If my account has an agreed OD limit of £100 and I start with a nil balance. I need to spend £100 on some new tyres for my car and cannot wait till payday so I use my OD.

 

Now my balance is -£100, still within my agreed OD limit.

 

I forget that I have paid for some milk with my debit card and when the payment clears it takes me over my OD limt, new balance is -£101.00.

 

Now, Mr. RBS rewards himself for lending me an extra £1 and charges me £29.00.

 

Balance is now -£130.00.

 

Payday comes round and I am paid £200.

 

Balance is now £70

 

but wait, I am down £30..........£29 of which is in Mr RBS's pocket......

 

Now you are suggesting that when Mr County Court Judge tells Mr RBS to give me my money back he should actually just reduce my OD by £29 making the facility £71. No that isn't what i said, if they refunded the money to your account it would adjust you balance to where it should have been. you seem to be saying they should leave the charge on the OD and give you cash.

 

I just don't understand................unless you are Mr RBS???? thats really likley, ive spent a little bit of time on here, built up my rep so i can fool all the RBOS claimants inot accepting a cheque! I even started one or two claims myslef just to enhance my rep too.

 

Just because you dont like the message doesnt mean its wrong.

 

The factis that as far as i can tell all of the banks will try to pay the moeny into the account if they can.

 

If the account is in excess od or is closed with a debt against it they wont pay any other way as far as i know.

 

If you have an Auth Od i have seen them pay it into the acc and reduce the OD limit at the same time.

 

Seems to me we could argue all day, if you can find a lawful reason why you can insist on cash or cheque when you owe the bank money via an od then please post it.

 

Lifes a bitch but thats how it is im afraid

 

Glenn

[rss1979]

You know what, we are going to have to agree to disagree........

 

Personally I would not settle for the bank offsetting the payment against my debt. I would contest it as far as possible.

 

I think its important to highlight every possible outcome but you seem to be very negative. I have never understood the "thats just the way it is" attitude.......Its only that way cause people don't contest it! I am sure you will have the last word on this thread though.....so take it away.

[Me.x]

Forgive me if I'm wrong but..... "sjude" should have the last word on this thread;)

[meatfeet]

Hi i am a newbie. Regards to overdrafts/morgages.I have an overdraft and a morgage with The Bank of Scotland. If they decided to close my account how would i stand in regard to the morgage?.Would it immediatly become repayable even though it still has 14 years to run. HELP this worries me sick.:?

[Glenn UK]

meatfeet

 

I dont think they would touch your mortgage only a bank account.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[initfor1stcreditforreal]

HI peeople, im new to the site but thought i might help. There is something called 'right of appropriation in settlements' that is you can ask the banks to pay you directly into another account or a cheque that you can deposit into any account

[Glenn UK]

Ive heard of that but was under the impression it was specifically for use where the claimant was on benefits or similar.

 

Would it apply generally or is it restricted to certain circumstances ?

 

Glenn

 

Edit found this

 

Bank Charges

 

Large charges are possible where direct debit payments are missed, and these will have a big effect on people on a low income. Clients have a ‘right of appropriation’ over funds paid into an account - ie they can tell the bank in advance what money is to be used for, and prevent the bank taking large amounts to cover charges. This must be done in writing before the money goes into the account, and banks are sometimes ignorant of this right, so there may be help needed with complaints where this is refused. Clients may also need to get new accounts in some cases to get control of their income.

 

Doest quite say what we want ie that we can tell banks how we want the payments though, if others have a link that proves otherwise it would be good.

[initfor1stcreditforreal]

Hi Glen

 

Right of appropriation in a settlement is as simple as it says. What you gave above is an example of where it can be used. In any settlement you have a right to invoke this right so that the resultant settlement payouts are not used to settle other debts. It is advisable though to state this requirement with the 1st and subsequent letters. This automatically stop banks from using the settlement to cover od or other debts. Hope you find this useful

[initfor1stcreditforreal]

Sorry I should have empasized that that you are merely entitled to request this right of appriation. if you do not request it, then you do not get it and the banks will not have broken any laws

[Glenn UK]

Are you able to say where this right comes from, since the examples i have found imply that this right is to protect money to live on or similar rather than a tool to allow us to take the money rather than settle debt.

 

i had a quick search on here and dint find much of substance, theres a template in the library which is where the implication about what you exert this right to do other than that i havent found anything about it of significance, although it does confirm its not just benefits though.

 

Glenn

[isidore]

Sounds interesting......any links init??

[initfor1stcreditforreal]

Will double check this again with my brother who specialises in consumer law. will update on Monday. What is clear is that this right does not prevent us from paying debts. We are obliged to pay debts, but not on settlement payout. Hope it sounds a bit clearer

[Glenn UK]

init

 

I have done a little diggin but cannot find a link to where this comes from or how it can be applied lawfully.

 

My gut feeling is that the intent of this is to protect those with financial difficulties from having all their oeny removed to settle debts and leaving them without sufficent money to pay essential bills. This is borne out by my research but in truth i havent found anyhting which i could call definitive.

 

THe advice i have given previousely has been based on experience and not much more. It wold be good to be able to tell people that actually they have a right and this is how it works.

 

Glenn

[sn00psmum]

HI peeople, im new to the site but thought i might help. There is something called 'right of appropriation in settlements' that is you can ask the banks to pay you directly into another account or a cheque that you can deposit into any account

 

Hi, i've been following this thread with great interest and was wondering if there were any developments on the Right of Appropriation of Settlement?

 

I wish to invoke this right if possible, we had an agreed O/D limit of £3600 which, by the time the RBS had applied all the charges, then passed the a/c to their debt management dept was almost £3k over its limit. We are not disputing the fact that the amount by which we had exceed our O/D needs to be repayed immediately upon settlement, however, we had agreed to reduce the O/D by a mthly payment plan.

When we discovered that we may be able to claim back charges, we placed the account in dispute in our prelim letter. We are due to file tomorrow, but indecision on C.I is causing a delay. We have not mentioned the Right of Appropriation of Settlement at all yet as I only stumbled across this thread the other day, (is it possible to mention it in our POC?) we have however stated in all our correspondence to the bank that we require payment of settlement to be in the form of a cheque payable into any UK a/c so that we may settle our more serious debts first while recommencing our payment plan with the bank. They have chosen to ignore this all along, infact they offered to settle for almost the full amount of charges (no interest tho) which we rejected for a number of reasons, one of them being that they were going to pay into our account where the money would have been swallowed by a previously agreed O/D, which I felt certain they would call in, also, the account of which I speak is closed anyway! This is one of the things we are prepared to argue over in court if it's appropriate?

 

Any help/advice much appreciated, thanks:-D

[Bookworm]

why should I be forced to pay back my overdraft with the charges refund? I do have an agreement with the bank which allows me to use that OD amount.

 

Really, that fact that these charges are applied when I am in my OD is irrelevant. It's simply a starting point, whether my account is £100 in credit or £100 in debt the fact is that when an unlawful charge is debited from the account the bank is denying me access to funds I am legally entitled to. END OF!

 

But who said that? When they put funds in your account, they very seldom cancel your o/d at the same time. Therefore, all that is happening is that either you were wildly over your limit, and the repayment will put you back within your limit, in which case, you have no grounds to complain whatsoever. Or you were within your limit, and the refund will just lower the debt to the bank, and if you so wish, you can draw it all out again. What's the big deal?

 

There seems to be an assumption that once they refund the money, the o/draft will get called in. In my experience on and off-forum, that is not so. The bank, let's not forget, is only too happy to keep you in hock for as long as they can. That is, after all, how they make money, someone permanently in small credit or barely using their o/d is not very profitable.

 

My advice would always be, with the one exception of closed accounts, to just accept whatever is going to resolve the matter quickest and simplest for you. If you want to keep your o/d at full throttle, go and withdraw the lot the moment it comes in.

[initfor1stcreditforreal]

Nice one Mr moderator. Whats yr advice to the ones with closed accounts? Snoops mum is trying to misuse the right of appropriation and i dont foresse a court rulling in her favour. As i said earlier its purposes is not for avoidance of debt but to help people to benefit from settlements. In this case I foresee the bank making a counter claim and winning it

[isidore]

Surely there's only one way a bank can pay you if you have a closed account and that's by cheque? What advice is needed here? Am I missing something? :?

[Bookworm]

Nice one Mr moderator. Whats yr advice to the ones with closed accounts? Snoops mum is trying to misuse the right of appropriation and i dont foresse a court rulling in her favour. As i said earlier its purposes is not for avoidance of debt but to help people to benefit from settlements. In this case I foresee the bank making a counter claim and winning it

 

 

It's MRS Moderator, actually.

 

Closed accounts, you can and should request payment by cheque. The only thing I would stress is that people make it clear from Prelim onwards that payment will have to be by cheque as the account is closed, so as to avoid any, ahem, confusion at settlement stage.

 

I don't know enough about rights of appropriation to comment adequately, so I won't. My gut feeling is that right of appropriation wouldn't work here IN COURT, as I don't think that this would be within court's remit of a simple monetary claim, however,I would have thought OP could fire a letter ASAP to the bank to earmark the money, so that even when they settle by paying into account, they won't be able to use to pay themselves first. But that's really just an impression based on logic, I don't have anything to back it up with.

[sn00psmum]

Nice one Mr moderator. Whats yr advice to the ones with closed accounts? Snoops mum is trying to misuse the right of appropriation and i dont foresse a court rulling in her favour. As i said earlier its purposes is not for avoidance of debt but to help people to benefit from settlements. In this case I foresee the bank making a counter claim and winning it

 

Ahem! I am not trying to misuse the right of appropriation or anything else for that matter. I dont' know the ins and outs of the issue and was merely trying to get some clarification on it before trying to USE it or spouting off about it, thank-you very much! I'll go and pick my rattle up now, LOL:p

[sn00psmum]

Surely there's only one way a bank can pay you if you have a closed account and that's by cheque? What advice is needed here? Am I missing something? :?

 

Hi T4FF!

 

I was confused because the account was closed while the debt was passed to credit management and i'm sure i've read somewhere that when you raise the issue of a claim against the bank, they (CM) pass the account back to the bank. Also, we have a couple of other accounts with the bank and I thought they might put the settlement into one of those and then not allow us access to it until we agree to clear the O/D with it. The other accounts are holding accounts and a savings account of hubby's. None have cheque/switch facilities, therefore no atm card.

 

Sorry if i've gone off subject of thread a little! SM

[isidore]

Right, my definition of a closed account doesn't include those passed to CMs. Will bear that in mind in future.

[initfor1stcreditforreal]

just getting off the topic for a moment. WHAT HAPPENS IF ONE DOES NOT HAVE A CHEQUE BOOK TO PAY FOR THE DATA SUBJECT ACCESS? SOUNDS SILLY BUT I WANT TO BE SURE

[baslow138]

Postal order

[sn00psmum]

I agree with the above, a postal order crossed & made payable only to bank, retain a receipt for it & send it by Recorded or Special delivery which you can track & trace online. Both must be signed for but recorded is cheaper. Even if you had a cheque book, the bank may decide not to cash it for a few weeks or find a way to bounce it(!), delaying your claim. Depending on who you bank with you may see a fee for historic statements on your a/c even though you've sent payment! RBS do this:-x

[Glenn UK]

re the fee and the recipient delaying processing the SAr by not cashing the cheque.

 

the DPA Sect 7 says

 

A data controller is not obliged to supply any information under subsection (1) unless he has received-

(a) a request in writing, and

(b) except in prescribed cases, such fee (not exceeding the prescribed maximum) as he may require.

 

I suppose the fee cannot have been recieved if the method of payment bounces. However, there is nor provison for them to hold onto the fee while they deicde whether to cash it or not. since it is a criinal offence to present a cheque knowing its going to bounce the premise must be by the recipient that the cheque has been supplied in good faith and therefore the fee would be deemed received.

 

So in other words if you sned the fee in a rreasonable form then once they receive it then along with the written request then the clock starts ticking for complaince. if the fee bounces in the mean time then they have every right to refuse to comply on that basis.

 

JMHO

 

glenn