Has any bank successfully defended a money or DPA claim?

[Odd Fellow]

It looks like even they are giving out conflicting advice!

 

I would say that it is certainly unwise to issue a complaint until the result of any legal action is completed. However, the court has many advantages over the ICO - the biggest one being that it gives you control of the timetable.

 

If the ICO are saying that once you have taken legal action you cannot make a complaint then this blatently wrong. The very fact that you have had to take legal action to obtain the information is grounds for a complaint.

 

However, in the light of the reply you have had, I will make some more enquiries and post back to this thread.

 

I didn't understand the ICO reply today to mean that I couldn't take action until after they had investigated and responded, just that I should complain first and then issue proceedings. However, thinking about it, this might be what she meant. It's difficult to establish exactly what she meant now. I think I'll call again tomorrow.

[alanfromderby]

I have just had a look at the ICO website and this is the first thing they advise:

 

Your rights

 

You have the following rights which you can enforce through any county court:

 

The section then goes on to list the rights of the individual as far as data processing is concerned. At the very end of this section it goes on to say what the IC can do:

 

What can the Information Commissioner do to enforce your rights?

 

The Information Commissioner cannot award any compensation to you where there has been a breach of the DPA.

He can, however, provide you with further information to enable you to enforce your rights or he can consider your complaint and make an assessment.

In some cases where the Information Commissioner believes the DPA has not been complied with he will issue an enforcement notice to the data controller. Failure to comply with that notice is a criminal offence.

The Information Commissioner will not take enforcement action in every case.

 

 

It is noticeable from the website that the ICO only takes a handful of cases each month to enforcement. I have also started to see on this forum, that where people are complaining, the IC are generally writing to the bank to tell them to comply. Surely, with the number of complaints growing daily, they should be taking more direct action.

 

What really concerns me though, is that already NatWest are using the ICO as a means for justifying their delay. They have sent a letter to several forum members stating that they have informed the IC that they are struggling to provide the transaction information within the 40 days - and that the IC have accepted that, and will not take action against them!!!!!

 

This seriously concerns me, as 40 days is not an unreasonable time-frame - and if they are prepared to come to a compromise over this situation, how long before they make other compromises?

 

It is up to the individual how they proceed - but by far the most damaging for the banks, is the court route. It is likely also to be the quickest - especially as the ICO gets more complaints to deal with.

[Odd Fellow]

I was unaware that the 40 day rule was being stretched, with permission or a blind eye, by NatWest.

 

This is totally unacceptable.

 

I have to agree that court action would seem to be the most expedient method of dealing with the situation.

 

In any situation, would you agree, Alan, that gaining affidavits from people who have not been messed about with delaying tactics would help strengthen any case?

 

Odd

[alanfromderby]

Up to a point, it certainly strengthens the case to say that the information must be easily available if others have received it - does it prove it though?

 

For me, a stronger argument is where a bank is saying on the one hand the information is hard to get - but then say that you can get copy statements at x amount per sheet. If it is possible to get at a price - why does it suddenly become difficult to retrieve under the Data Protection Act?

[Odd Fellow]

Certainly, it won't prove anything more that it's possible to get the information because it's been done before and without complaint, arguement or stalling and, now, it is seemingly not possible.

 

Surely a court would be interested to know how the defendant can supply the data to some people and not to others. Surely this is likely to be a question that the defendant can't answer without admitting things that they wouldn't want to admit.

[flames7205]

yes i have received mine

1 year from internet request and

all the rest going back to 2000

came with a letter saying cant sort out any manual interventions but here you are came in three seperate envelopes took some time though

[Odd Fellow]

yes i have received mine

1 year from internet request and

all the rest going back to 2000

came with a letter saying cant sort out any manual interventions but here you are came in three seperate envelopes took some time though

 

Key Questions:

 

1) Did you get fobbed off in the process of getting the information? If so, how?

2) Did you get the data within the statutory 40 days?

3) If you got the data without any fobbing off and within the 40 days, would you be prepared to make a statement to that effect to assist anyone who is making complaints to the ICO or starting proceedings under Section 7 of the DPA?

 

Thanks

 

Odd

[jonni2bad]

DPA arguements are too new, as you suggest.

 

Banks defending - well, one of the earliest ever cases was defended in court, and they won. However, without trying to go into detail, inwas early on, a solicitor was apparently involved and didn't quite understand what was required of him, and the specifics of the defence will not be seen again.

 

Other than the above, no !!

[Jamloo]

yes i have received mine

1 year from internet request and

all the rest going back to 2000

came with a letter saying cant sort out any manual interventions but here you are came in three seperate envelopes took some time though

 

 

I would STRONGLY advise you to PM one of the Mods - Dave / Bankfodder etc and advise them of the letter you have received and specifically the fact that they cant sort out any manual interventions.... to me that sounds conclusive that you have an extremely strong case that the bank cannot argue against !!

[Jane Austen]

Did you use a different address to the rest of us?

[Odd Fellow]

..

[Guest Lueeze]

You have 6 threads runnig at once! Please stick to this one If you need it renaming give me a bell!

 

Louise x

[ianc]

I have writeen to Abbey to request an estimated amount for illegal charges, and have also informed them that I have made a complaint to the IC about the failure to comply with the DPA - I only received the last 14 months stats, with no cover notes or explanation letters.

 

I did say that if they come back to me quickly I'll update my complaint to the IC to say Abbey complied eventually.

 

I'm quite happy to take them to court over the DPA failure if someone wants to give me some advice on the legalities of it all....

[alanfromderby]

I have writeen to Abbey to request an estimated amount for illegal charges, and have also informed them that I have made a complaint to the IC about the failure to comply with the DPA - I only received the last 14 months stats, with no cover notes or explanation letters.

 

I did say that if they come back to me quickly I'll update my complaint to the IC to say Abbey complied eventually.

 

I'm quite happy to take them to court over the DPA failure if someone wants to give me some advice on the legalities of it all....

 

All the information is in the Bank Template Library, including template letters, and the particulars of claim. Abbey currently has two actions started under the DPA (me and seminole), both are at an early stage.

[zena]

DREAM ON BOYS.

 

I obtained what must be the very worst IC Final Assessment concerning Abbey. See it at: www.zcredit.co.uk/an05.pdf

 

At one point, when I was complaining about Abbey National they confessed their failings to the ICO, but they requested the ICO not to disclose this confession statement to me. I believe that this was a request by Abbey National to the ICO to breach the Data protection Act, and astonishingly, that is exactly what the ICO did. The comments on the Abbey National letter, held by the ICO, can be seen at; www.zcredit.co.uk/an08.pdf

 

I do not believe that it matters a hoot what Abbey do, the ICO will do nothing about it.

 

In my High Court claim against Abbey National for a breach fo the DPA and Negligence, I believe that Abbey went on to fabricate evidence. Not that the High Court Master cared in any way.

 

So don't count on the ICO, or the courts, to do anything about it. The establishment looks after it's own.

 

(MLJ)

[Movingon]

Zena - those documents don't support your claims at all. It looks like some Abbey employees were shaky on procedure and therefore screwed things up for you right royally... but these were MISTAKES. The second document most certainly DOES NOT ask the ICO to breach the DPA.

 

You seem to be suggesting criminal complicity on the part of both Abbey and the ICO - not to mention the courts! You should be very careful - accusations like that could not only land you in very severe hot water, but could get this site shut down.

[zena]

Please excuse me for stating the facts.

 

The ICO is a a toothless goverment body that simply does not do its job. Abbey National have demonstarated to me, and many others, that they consistantly ignore the DPA, and care little for the rights of their customers.

 

(MLJ)

[skintchick]

If this is going before the courts then surely you shouldn't be discussing anything in this manner. If its true it could only damage your case!

[andrew1]

Mr Johnson, this makes for terrible reading and most people will just not understand what you might be going through and have gone through when you have been wronged, lost everything and feel the world and his dog is against you. I had a business once, quite a big business that went belly up after ten years of building it because of a stupid and unnecessary eighteen month tax investigation ( I had nothing to hide- I was just one of the unlucky ones they picked on! ). It took all my time and energy working until 2 in the morning and back at 9 the next day, I couldn't concentrate on the business and I crashed. The fall out of that is that you feel there is nothing left, you have lost everything 'you have no future' bankruptcy the shame of it, failure god, don't you feel you have failed? Depression, in fighting at home, blame, fighting everyone government departments, solicitors giving duff advice, liquidators hounding you for every bean they can, you are out there to get justice - I've been there too, got the T shirt and nearly finished the book. Someone said to me at the height of it all " you will get through this, you just can't see it yet " of course I didn't believe it but you do. Fortunately I didn't go bankrupt but on paper I was and if I had taken the 'advice' I was being given would no doubt have done, but I was a fighter and pulled through. It nearly cost me my home, my marriage and my sanity and I had 2yrs of depression over it.

My advice to you now I am through it all, if I can offer any is to say try not waste time on things which really won't change anything. Institutions, professional lackys, and all those faceless authorities couldn't give a damn - you are merely a number and you will be wasting valuable and precious time with your family - they have no doubt supported you through thick and thin and listened to the stories over and over again. To say "forget it" is all too easy for me to say but try and see the valueable things around you and enjoy them again. You will be surprised at what the meaning of valueable time is. You haven't failed at anything - you have got where you were when others settled for less. Be thankful for the experience of being there, forget these personal fights look at your partner and kids see what you saw from the beginning and move forward. It's beautiful out there - take a look.

You will be stronger for it.

From someone who knows.

[zena]

Thanks for the observations, and comments, but I will fight the good fight until I can no more.

 

Getting back to the plot.....has any bank sucessfully defendirf a DPA claim;

 

Not really, they don't need to. The courts attach so little importantance to breaches of the DPA, remember Michael Douglas? He spent a day arguing that his DPA rights had been breached, the High Court judge agreed, and awarded him £50.

 

Even if you do everything right, even if you get a Final Assessment from the IC confirming that your DPA rights have been breached, any bank (and most certainly Abbey National) will not care. So what. Sue us, do we care? And if need be they will wiggle, twist and turn, and the court will indulge them.

 

I believe that until the IC start cracking down on breaches, with massive fines, statutory compensation, credit licences being suspended, AND, this must be combined with a court system that enforces judgments against banks that abuse their customers DPA rights, then the DPA in the UK is meaningless

 

The only real hope is that the EC ICO will start ruling against the UK goverment for failing to implement te EU DPA directive. It will happen eventually, and in fact is in progress already, but the UK goverment will stall and ignore it as long as they can.

 

Sorry if this is not what a litgatious bank customer wants to hear, but it is, I believe, how it is.

 

MLJ

[andrew1]

Quote: Zena "Thanks for the observations, and comments, but I will fight the good fight until I can no more."

 

You are right of course, all these things you say, but don't lose sight of the important things in life. Time will be gone before you know it and so will your loved ones. Then you'll think to yourself... that bloke was right!

 

Sorry back to the point...

[Bernadette Munroe]

Hi

 

Abbey are using the microfiche argument with me I have sent the 2nd letter and they responded with a transaction list for the last 14 months only. I followed this up with a phone call but, got only as far as the secretary for my intended contacted I have though had a voicemail mess fr Manager of Business Banking on 10/07 to which I have again written to requesting copy statments fr start of account.

 

I have also rang Customer Care who were unable to help me without me offering another £10 they also wrote to me advising that they "can request archived statements" Should I write to them also?? I have letters going all over the place but I do want to continue to resolution.

[Odd Fellow]

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