Log Book Loans !!!

[caprikid]

I am looking for others on here who have been ripped off by Log Book Loans I now think that something should be done about them . There are to many people getting there cars taken away illegaly (including me) that I feel if we all got together we can make Log Book Loans pay . I have been in touch with trading Standards and they have told me the more complaints they get the better .Alex

[JonCris]

Capri heard the great news re Mark

[Bigbear733]

Hi Everyone

I have a way to get back at Log Book Loans (“LBL”) and Mobile Money (“MM”). I assure you, this will work - I am a lawyer.

I have read the various threads with some horror at the tactics used by LBL and MM and this is my reason for posting.

Unfortunately, first some bad new – the loans they issue, and the way they secure their interest over a vehicle, via a Bill of Sale (“BOS”), is completely legal, if they follow the correct procedure. I have reviewed a LBL case and they seem to be doing everything correctly; I have not looked a MM, but I would presume they are also following the correct procedure. Furthermore, despite some posts that suggest the contrary, they can take possession of goods which are secured by way of a BOS without a court order.

Sorry, it gets worse before it gets better – if you are unfortunate enough to purchase a vehicle which has a chattel mortgage (what the BOS effectively creates) attached to it then, even though you are an innocent party, the vehicle can still legally be taken off you without a court order.

I am surprised that I have seen another lawyer in a press article suggest that this is illegal – he referrers to innocent parties purchasing vehicles with outstanding hire purchase (“HP”) agreements and, what he refers to as “other loans” (although he does not elaborate on what other loans are), and states that the an innocent purchaser obtain the goods with good legal tile. He is completely correct in relation to HP agreements as s27 Hire Purchase Act 1964, as substituted by the Consumer Credit Act 1974, provides that an innocent purchaser without notice (ie in non legal speak - a private individual who buys something not knowing that the item was subject to a HP agreement) takes the goods purchased with good legal title. However, there is no such provision for security taken by way of a BOS. In fact, the common law position was amended by s27 and a good analogy to explain why the law works this way is to consider stolen property. If your car was stolen and sold to an innocent party do you think that if the police managed to locate the vehicle you should not be able to re-claim the car – obviously I would think most of you would think that if something is stolen from you then you can take it back once located – and this is exactly the legal position. The general rule in law is that someone can only give good legal title if they themselves posses it, and, unless there is some legislative exception, this rules applies to the sale and purchase of all chattels (in simple terms, chattels is legal speak for property which is not land and buildings – sorry if I sound patronising but I know there are some reader who are not as legally conversant as other and I just want them to understand what I am saying).

I have read a number of other posts that incorrectly state the law and give false hope but I don’t have the time to deal with each issue raised.

Unfortunately, in my opinion it will be very difficult to legally challenge LGL or MM based on the BOS.

However, now for the good news. To operate within the law lenders require a consumer credit licence. This is issued by the Office of Fair Trading (“OFT”) and recent legislative changes have given the OFT significantly more discretion and powers in who to issue consumer credit licences to and, where appropriate, to revoke such licences.

My proposal is that we work together to get the consumer credit licences of LBL and MM removed and this is how to do it:

The law in relation to credit advertising was changed recently by the Consumer Credit (Advertising) Regulation 2004 (the “Regulations”). I will not bore you with the details but the OFT have issued guidance to lenders on the interpretation of these regulations. Basically a lender must publish a typical APR where, amongst other things, they offer credit to people with a poor credit history or where they offer an incentive.

The OFT have stated that terms such as “No Credit Checks” or “Super Fast Loans”, or similar, will trigger the requirements to publish a typical APR. See para 8.16 of the following guidance: http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft746.pdf

I have seen advertisement placed by both MM and LBL that contravene the Regulations by not stating a typical APR. I saw one today – they are not difficult to find.

This is what I propose that everyone does – look out for MM and LBL adverts. If they say anything like “fast loans”, “no credit checks”, “CCJ’s - no problem”, “Cash Loans within 30 minutes” etc then they must quote a typical APR. If they don’t then they have broken the law.

Report every breach of these regulations to your local trading standards (a letter or e-mail is best, but phone if you don’t have time). If enough complaints are received then the OFT will have to consider revoking their consumer credit licences. What’s even better, the directors of LBL and MM will face criminal prosecutions and convictions as breaching the Regulations is actually a criminal offence.

If enough people take action, as I have suggested, then LBL and MM will lose their consumer credit licences and this will stop them trading – in short, there is more than one way to skin a cat!

I hope this has been helpful and I wish you all luck.

[JonCris]

Bis Bear The OFT are already well aware of LBL as are Trading Standards but your correct everybody should complain & as loud as they can

[sillygirl1]

Shouldn't it be the Trading Standards people in the area LBL and MM operate in with a copy to your local Trading Standards, that way you are covered when TS pass the buck or say 'we don't have any records of problems with this company'. Thats what I'm now doing when I lodge complaints to TS.

[longshot]

Bigbear733

If your car was stolen and sold to an innocent party do you think that if the police managed to locate the vehicle you should not be able to re-claim the car – obviously I would think most of you would think that if something is stolen from you then you can take it back once located – and this is exactly the legal position.

I thought you might be interested in something that happened to my father in contradiction to the above. My father had two off road motorcycles (with registration plates) stolen from him of not inconsiderable value. Due to an oversight the bikes were uninsured. This theft was reported to the police. Anyway sometime later one of the motorcycles was spotted by a friend being ridden near his home.We contacted the police and traveled with them to the business premises where the bikes were.

The police then informed my father that a reciept (which we knew to be fake) was produced for the sale and my father would have to take them to court for ownership. After lots of legal letters back and forth my father had not gained any ground. So myself and a friend paid them a visit and explained the situation more clearly. We loaded the bikes with their help and returned them to the rightful owner my father.Surprising what two large men can achive lol.

 

[JonCris]

Shouldn't it be the Trading Standards people in the area LBL and MM operate in with a copy to your local Trading Standards, that way you are covered when TS pass the buck or say 'we don't have any records of problems with this company'. Thats what I'm now doing when I lodge complaints to TS.

 

 

Not according to TS:confused:

 

To quote them "you should complain to Consumer Direct who will have your local TS contact you direct" who in turn will pass your complaint to the TS in the companies area - talk about passing the buck:-|

[Bigbear733]

TS do have the powers to deal with the matter and should in fact do so. I would still write a letter to them and cc it to the OFT. As the local TS's report to the OFT they are more inclined to look into the issue if you do this.

[Fleeced73]

Caprikid's in todays Sunday Mirror!

'Lenders took double money AND the car' - Sunday Mirror

[blueskysim]

i have had probs with lbl but i have a very good solicitor on the case and when i WIN iam going after them through the media i already have the bbc watchdog that are waiting to do a story i am gonna bury them

[Boobaby]

i have had probs with lbl but i have a very good solicitor on the case and when i WIN iam going after them through the media i already have the bbc watchdog that are waiting to do a story i am gonna bury them

 

Please let us know if/when this is shown on Watchdog.

Thanks

Boo

[Oh Boy!]

I don't get this!

 

People sign these darned agreements, fall into arrears, company wants car back, then suddenly company becomes ****!????

 

Hand back the cars if you can't afford to pay for it.

 

geeeez

[JonCris]

Oh gawd another LBL troll

[boslem.beast]

I don't get this!

 

People sign these darned agreements, fall into arrears, company wants car back, then suddenly company becomes ****!????

 

Hand back the cars if you can't afford to pay for it.

 

geeeez

Owed £3.100 over 58 weeks, paid £3.578.85 in 56 weeks albeit in lump sums rather than weekly payments. I still according to them owe £1.058:confused:.

Had the car repossesed but got it back damaged after I paid my outstanding balance. Had to claim on my insurance to get the car put right and lost my no claims and £120 in excess .The charges they have added to the account are unbelievable. What can I do to challange the charges and are they liable for the damage caused the the car after they took it and even charged me £120 for storage?????

[Oh Boy!]

Troll? yeah right!

 

Look lets accept the truth, whats wrong with what i said, bugger all.

 

People like you give debtors a bad name.

 

Troll?

 

fool!

[Oh Boy!]

Troll? yeah right!

 

Look lets accept the truth, whats wrong with what i said, bugger all.

 

People like you give debtors a bad name.

 

Troll?

 

fool!

__________________

** Credentials **

 

10 Years Finance Fraud Investigator

 

5 Year High Court Sheriffs

 

2 Years Tip Staff Royal Courts

 

Currently : HMCS Enforcement Officer

[JonCris]

Like I said just another troll who probably works for a bunch of shysters

[hedgehog0045]

The fact is that it's not about 'if the money is owed then just pay it back'. The issue is about how these monkeys go about dealing with people when they have financial difficulty. LBL are very quick to add huge charges and repo cars without contacting the customer and coming to agreements regarding clearing arrears.

 

They are also questionable about how they operate. Signing credit agreements in pub car parks for example.

[JonCris]

We all know that hedge. Don't rise to the bait. The persons a troll who probably makes a living from doing something similar that involves ripping off the consumer

[Boobaby]

Troll? yeah right!

 

Look lets accept the truth, whats wrong with what i said, bugger all.

 

People like you give debtors a bad name.

 

Troll?

 

fool!

__________________

** Credentials **

 

10 Years Finance Fraud Investigator

 

5 Year High Court Sheriffs

 

2 Years Tip Staff Royal Courts

 

Currently : HMCS Enforcement Officer

 

Oh Boy - Impressive credentials!!

 

I will see your credentials and raise you two degrees and numerous management qualifications! That my friend still does not give me the right to stand in judgement of others.

I am and I make no excuses absolute crap with my own money. Thankfully I have managed to put my house in order with the help of people on this site who have been willing to give up their time and impart their knowledge allowing me to do that.

 

They have not sat in their ivory towers judging users (including themselves) of this site who have incurred difficulties.

 

I am glad that you appear to have no financial issues and are able to manage your affairs without resorting to using bullies, conmen and downright rip off merchants, so why then are you on here?

 

Thank you all for your help advice and support you truly are amazing

[Stumpy3220]

Hi,

 

I wonder if i could rack your brains on some legal aspects to do with LBL. Basically without going into to much detail I stupidly took out an agreement with LBL. I'd paid the amount i borrowed back and jst had the interest left. I had a few problems and asked if i could pay a little less back over a longer period. Those helpful people at LBL of course jumped at this and made me sign a new agreement for the interest which was only £1600, but with a 247% APR this made it about £5000 to pay back.

 

I signed the agreement form and the loan started. I wrote to them with details of change of circumstances and then didn't hear anything and so maybe the wrong idea i stopped payment. A few months later there was an early knock at the door from Angia UK Ltd, who just waved a piece of paper in my face with my car registration on and told me that he was a bailliff. He stepped inside my house and told me he'd clamped the car.

 

I then telephoned LBL and after having some jumped up idot who thought he knew it all speak to me i spoke with a manager. I realised at this point that the agreement form that i had signed for the new loan had been sent to me with a pre signed witness signature on. I told the manager this and that this then made the agreement not legally binding. He straight away backed down, told me that they would write off the debt and called Anglia UK Lld telling them to remove the clamp. When the clamp was removed i noticed that damage had been caused to the wheel, to which they just laughed and left. I have now got documentaion for LBL to say they no longer have an interest in the vehicle and i've got my log book back.

 

Now from doing research on the internet i have found out that under the Security Industry Act 2001 that any vehicle immobilisers has to be SIA approved and carry the relevant documentaion, which Anglia UK Ltd are not, so are committing offences there. Now i'm not sure of this but i think that LBL also committ an offence of allowing, causing and permitting a non registered company to do their bidding. Also because the loan was not legally binding that they have committed the offence of criminal damage to my wheel.

 

Now i have contacted LBL about all these points, and think that after all the trouble, worry and upset they have caused to me and all the other people i have read about on here i am looking to take this as far as I can.

 

They have failed to remove the HPI marker they had illegally placed on my car, when they said they had. Now they have written to me stating that Anglia UK Ltd are not agents of the company and so they are not liable for any of Anglia actions, and that 'any persons seekeing to enforce a Bill of Sale on behalf of LBL are not employees of the company'.

 

I am waiting on a phone call from a solicitor was is apparently representing them and i have appointments with my solicitor and CAB, but wondered if anyone had any idea's or suggestions as to if i have missed anything. I will take this as far as i can to recover the cost of new alloy's and compensation from the company.

Thanks

[ann61]

Hello JonCris,

 

I am ann61 I have just signed up and wonder if you can help please, I took out a loan with logbook had a very tough year last year my father died of cancer in january, my 15yr old step brother just dropped down dead in April and when I went over to Ireland to bury him I had 56 missed phone calls from england from my younger son telling me he dad had hung himself in the house, **** year eh! then in december i lost my job logbook loans knew all about this but have been pigs, I started back to work only in june of this year now they have sent the balliffs in who clamped my car got the clamp off then they started threating me and my son now loogbook loans say they are going to take my vehicle i have sent off a duplicate certificate to dvla to register the car in someone elses name can they still take the vehicle, I really need help

[Stumpy3220]

Hi Ann,

 

I've read your thread, really sorry to hear about the year you've had. I've had a lot of dealings with LBL, and their scare tactics. Currently my case is being reviewed by a court. My first question to you is how and what are LBL saying to you that is threatening. You see you are covered by what is called 'Unfair Realtionship' under the Consumer Credit Act. If the company are being threatening towards you then they will have most definately breached that. Also who turned up to clamp your car, what was the name of the company, what did they say, did they have ID from the Security Industry Agency and did they identify themselves as Bailliffs?? Sorry for all the questions but to help you with what I know I need a clearer picture as to what has happened. I have started a thread called Log Book Loans - Together we'll beat them. I have told what happened to us and how we got the company to back down and write off the debt. Joncris has been really helpful with my situation, but if there is anything I can do to help please let me know as I want to do as much as I can to put LBL out of business.

 

Stumpy3220

[ann61]

Hi Stumpy3220,

 

Boy am I relieved that someone out there that has replied and are having the same problems as myself, short from phoning them to ask the name of the company all I have is a name and telephone number and I do not want to phone them because they are two brothers and one is more naster than the other, I spoke with one whose name was Gareth and he seemed quite plesant they clamped the car first then knocked on the door very loud I went down to answer it and fell to the ground my father bought the car for me just before he died and it is the only thing i have to remember him by my son picked me up off of the floor and they removed the clamp told me i had seven days and thed would be back, I phoned them to to tell that I never had the money then they told me when they come back i would not be so lucky they would take the car, they were very abusive towards me telling me they had given me that chance and that i was ****ing them about they told me i needed to pay lbl had told them to take the car to which i have hidden, i told them that i wrote to lbl special delivery on thursday of last week and am still awaiting a reply noone has phoned i keep chasing them i.e. lbl, they tell me they have sent a bill of sale and that the car is theres i said i have not signed a bill of sale but they are not listening to me i have requested to speak with a manager but they refuse to put methrough, i have asked to come into there office to try and sort it out but they tell me there offices are closed to the general public, i am at my wites end and feel suicidel, the balliffs are calling daily and screaming at me down the phone the other brother is saying lets go and just get the ****ing car and that i am very frightened and intimated by both of these my eldest son just wants to come over to me and punch there heads in but what good will that do i am desparate

[Stumpy3220]

Ann,

 

See I had that problem when the debt collectors came and clamped my car. The first point is there is no point in registering it in someone elses name, they'll use a tracing agency to find it and then take it anyway. If you can whilst this matter is in dispute hide it in someones garage or somewhere not near your home so that when they come back they'll not find it. They have no power to enter your home or to remove any other goods, so don't worry about that. If they do come back ask for ID from them and make sure that it is SIA, as they have to be registered with them otherwise they are acting outside of the law. Also ask to see any paperwork they have, I guess you'd have signed a bill of sale with LBL, well they should have that in their possession. If they have none of these then i'd call the Police and explain the above. I was told by someone on here if they don't have the proper proof they could be anyone stealing your car and the Police have a right to get involved. I have done hours of research on the internet about their powers and they really haven't got any. Under no circumstances give them your keys or let them take the car, if they do then basically thats the last you'll see of it, as it will be sold in less than 5 days.

 

Document what has happened so far, like I said this could have breached the Unfair Relationship part of the CCA. Have you spoken with LBL in relation to your dealings with their cowboys????? If not ring their complaint's department, ask to speak to a manager not the brainless fool that answers the phone, and explain that you feel they are in breach of the CCA. Check the documents you signed, make sure the agreement numbers are all the same, the dates are correct etc because one small error on their side cold make the document and the agreement not legally binding. You need to check when the agreement was registered with the High Court, asit must be done within 7 days, outside of that it is nul and void. The most important thing to remember is not to be scared of LBL, they prey on people who will not fight back, and in this case I feel you need to. These are just some of the things I have done and have found out to use against them and things I would suggest you do, they might not work so please don't hold that against me but after all the trouble they caused me I want to help as many people as I can to stop them.

 

Stumpy3220