Nick vs Lloyds TSB ****WON!!****

[choppedminx]

Well I've done it now, went to court yesterday and put in 2 claims, they said they would issue them that day.

Wasn't that scary really.

 

Do I just sit back and wait now?

[BARTY]

Hi

Yes just a matter of waiting for a couple of weeks or so now.

Lloyds have 14 days from the date the claim was served (it is served 5 days after you filed it) to acknowledge the claim, and then 28 days from the date it was served to enter a defence. You will then receive a copy of their defence and an Allocation Questionnaire to fill in. These links will help you with that:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/57708-draft-order-allocation-questionnaires.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/11644-allocation-questionnaires-guide-completion.html

 

Barty:)

[choppedminx]

27th April Update!

 

Have received 2 letters from court "Notice that Acknowledgement of service Has Been Filed" one for personal account, other for business acc.

Stating Lloyds (Sechiari, Clark and Mitchell) have 28 days from 25th April to file a defence.

 

'spose I just sit and wait?

[choppedminx]

Hi

 

Update -

 

Have received 2 letters from Lloyds TSB with partial offer -

 

" .... Generally we don't agree to adjust any of these charges, but I can tell you that on this occasion we are prepared to repay you £540 (£750 in 2nd letter) in full and final settlement of your complaint."

 

These letters are dated 23rd April, received on 4th May.

 

The £540 has been paid in my personal account 8th May, and the £750 (this is a business claim) has been paid into our joint personal account (ie; not into business account) on 8th May

 

 

Also received on same day letter from "Foot Anstey Solicitors" dated 3rd May, stating -

" We have received instructions to act for the bank in this matter and enclose a Notice of Change of solicitor for your information."

The reference no. refers to the business claim.

 

So I assume we have one set of solicitors for our personal accs, and another for the business acc?!

 

I am about to reply with the following letter(s) -

 

 

 

Date

 

BANK NAME

Address

Address

Postcode

Re: Account number XXXXXXXX

 

Response to settlement offer.

 

Dear Kim Andrews

 

Thank you for your letter dated 23/04/2007 I respectfully decline your offer of Full and Final settlement.

 

You may not have been aware that I commenced legal action against you for the full amount plus interest and costs on XX/XX/XX and I would ask that you now refer this matter to your legal department for further instruction.

 

I wish to stress that I do not accept your offer as Full and Final settlement and the money transfered to my account should not be viewed as my acceptance. I hereby authorise you to remove this sum accordingly. Alternatively, should you wish to settle my claim in full, then please forward the balance of the claim (£xxxx) without further conditions and I will inform the court that the claim is settled.

 

 

I trust this clarifies my position.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Is this correct?

 

Should inform them that they have credited the wrong account?

 

Could really do with using some of the money, but I suppose I cant spend it can I??

[curlychic]

Hi

 

 

 

 

Update -

 

Have received 2 letters from Lloyds TSB with partial offer -

 

" .... Generally we don't agree to adjust any of these charges, but I can tell you that on this occasion we are prepared to repay you £540 (£750 in 2nd letter) in full and final settlement of your complaint."

 

These letters are dated 23rd April, received on 4th May.

 

The £540 has been paid in my personal account 8th May, and the £750 (this is a business claim) has been paid into our joint personal account (ie; not into business account) on 8th May

 

 

Also received on same day letter from "Foot Anstey Solicitors" dated 3rd May, stating -

" We have received instructions to act for the bank in this matter and enclose a Notice of Change of solicitor for your information."

The reference no. refers to the business claim.

 

So I assume we have one set of solicitors for our personal accs, and another for the business acc?!

 

I am about to reply with the following letter(s) -

 

 

 

Date

 

BANK NAME

Address

Address

Postcode

Re: Account number XXXXXXXX

 

Response to settlement offer.

 

Dear Kim Andrews

 

Thank you for your letter dated 23/04/2007 I respectfully decline your offer of Full and Final settlement.

 

You may not have been aware that I commenced legal action against you for the full amount plus interest and costs on XX/XX/XX and I would ask that you now refer this matter to your legal department for further instruction.

 

I wish to stress that I do not accept your offer as Full and Final settlement, however, i will except the money in which you have transfered to my account as part payment towards my claim.

 

In the meantime, should you wish to settle my claim in full, then please forward the remaining balance of the claim (£xxxx - payment recieved) without further conditions and I will inform the court that the claim is settled.

 

 

I trust this clarifies my position.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Is this correct? Yes and No. Personally speaking i would adjust the letter (as above) withdraw the amounts and continue with claim.

 

Should inform them that they have credited the wrong account?

 

Could really do with using some of the money, but I suppose I cant spend it can I??

 

XxXxX

You may receive differing advice as people have had different experiences. Please use your own judgement in deciding whose advice to take. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional. Any advice I offer is done so informally, without prejudice & without liability.

If I have been helpful PLEASE click the scales ;-)

[choppedminx]

XxXxX

 

 

You may receive differing advice as people have had different experiences. Please use your own judgement in deciding whose advice to take. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional. Any advice I offer is done so informally, without prejudice & without liability.

 

If I have been helpful PLEASE click the scales ;-)

 

 

Thanks Curlychic

 

That sounds like a good idea, I guess I need to let the court know? When do I do that? and how?

 

Nick

[curlychic]

Just drop the Court a letter explaining that LLoyds have made a part payment, however, you still intend to continue with the claim. Enclose an updated schedule of charges showing the amount paid at the bottom.

 

Dont forget to put your Claim No/Reference on the letter and still send recorded, for piece of mind.

 

Thanks for the 'click'

 

XxXxX

 

 

You may receive differing advice as people have had different experiences. Please use your own judgement in deciding whose advice to take. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional. Any advice I offer is done so informally, without prejudice & without liability.

 

 

[nicsussex]

still send recorded, for piece of mind

 

They want a piece of your mind as well now what will they think of next?

[curlychic]

They want a piece of your mind as well now what will they think of next?

 

nicsussex ..... nothing would suprise me

[choppedminx]

They want a piece of your mind as well now what will they think of next?

 

 

Not sure I can spare any of mine

[choppedminx]

Hi All

 

I have received a defence for both my personal accounts, and my business account, are these the standard ones? The business one looks a bit worrying, or is this just normal?

 

Personal Account defence -

1. The Defendant Lloyds TSB Bank pic (the Bank) is a Bank whose registered office

is 25 Gresham Street, London, EC2V 7HN. It is admitted that the Claimant has

been a customer of the Bank at all material times.

2. By opening an account with the Bank, the customer enters into a commercial

arrangement with the Bank for the provision of banking services. The Bank is

entitled, as part of that arrangement, to charge for those services. At account

opening a customer is provided with details of the Bank's charges, currently in a

leaflet a guide to our banking charges. By using the account, the customer

acknowledges that the charges are incorporated into the contract. For personal

customers, a number of services are provided for free, notwithstanding that they

are an expense to the Bank. Such services presently include, but are not limited

to, providing;

cheques

bank statements

the facility to make payments by direct debit and standing order

debit cards

ATMs (cash machines).

3. By maintaining the account in credit, or within any limit agreed with the Bank,

the customer may avoid most if not all charges. If the customer fails to ensure

that there are sufficient cleared funds in the account to cover payments,

whether by cheque, debit card, standing order or direct debit, the customer

makes a request for a payment to be made from the Bank's own funds. If the

Bank makes payment, or returns the payment, it provides a service as specified

in the leaflet and makes a charge in accordance with the terms of the contract.

On page 1 of the leaflet, the Bank explains that "there are normally no charges

for everyday banking at Lloyds TSB when your account is in credit.

When you use an agreed overdraft, there is no monthly fee and we only charge

interest on the amount you are overdrawn each day. Where you go overdrawn

without an agreement or where you use special services, such as copy

statements, we will make a charge. This guide explains how these charges

work, and when they will apply.

If you want to use a service that we haven't listed, we'll tell you the cost of that service before you give us the go-ahead".

4. There is no breach of contract; the charge cannot therefore be a penalty,

consequently there is no requirement that the charge be a pre-estimate of the

Bank's loss. <.>

5. The customer is given advance warning of charges being imposed; statements

show the charges, if any, the customer has incurred during the course of a

month, and which will appear as debits on the following month's statement.

Customers are warned by letter when they go overdrawn or over their agreed

limit without arrangement with the Bank. If the customer fails to remedy the

position, and payments such as standing orders and direct debits are refused

then again the customer is warned by letter.

6. The charges are fair and reasonable, and it is denied that they are unlawful.

7. The customer is notified of the charges in plain intelligible language at the

conclusion of the contract, and on each monthly statement. The charge are

terms which relate to the price payable by the customer for a service provided

by the Bank, and pursuant to Regulation 6 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer

Contracts Regulations 1999, are not subject to the assessment of fairness.

8. In the premises:

8.1 the charges are for banking services, and are not damages nor a penalty;

8.2 the Bank is entitled by contract to impose the charges, which are fair and

reasonable; „,

8.3 It is denied that the charges are unlawful or contravene any statute or

regulation.

9. The Claimant's claim is denied in its entirety. It is further denied that the

Claimant is entitled to the sum claimed or to any sum from the Bank.

Statement of Truth

The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true. I am duly authorised by frhlTDefendant to sign this statement.

 

Signed: ..

Business Account defence -

 

1. The Defendant, Lloyds TSB Bank pic (the Bank), is a bank. It is admitted

that the Claimant has been a customer of the Bank at all material times.

2. By opening a business account with the Bank, the customer enters into a

commercial arrangement with the Bank for the provision of banking

services. The Bank is entitled, as part of that arrangement, to charge for

those services. At account opening a customer is provided with a

Welcome Pack, which includes the Bank's charges leaflet. By using the

account, the customer acknowledges that the charges are incorporated

into the contract.

3. In the leaflet, in the section headed Unauthorised borrowing the Bank

explains that "If you overdraw your account or exceed an overdraft limit

without prior agreement, a higher rate of interest is charged on this

unauthorised borrowing. The rate is displayed in all branches. We may

cover the additional work involved in monitoring your account by charging

the fees detailed below.

Unauthorised borrowing fee

We charge this when you first overdraw your account, or go above the agreed overdraft limit by £50 or more. There will be a further charge each time you increase the amount borrowed by £50 or more, unless a higher limit is agreed with us or until the account is within its existing limit or in credit. This fee will apply, for example, if you draw against cheques which have not fully cleared and this takes you overdrawn or over an agreed limit.

£12.50 Unpaid item

We charge each time we have to return a cheque unpaid, or cannot pay a standing order or a direct debit, because there isn't enough money in your account.

£30 for each item not paid."

By a letter of June 2005, the Bank gave notice of an increase in these charges to £1 5 and £35 respectively.

4. If the customer fails to ensure that there are sufficient cleared funds in the

account to cover payments, whether by cheque, debit card, standing order

or direct debit, the customer makes a request for a payment to be made

from the Bank's own funds. If the Bank makes payment, or returns the

payment, it provides a service as specified in the leaflet and makes a

charge in accordance with the terms of the contract.

5. There is no breach of contract; the charge cannot therefore be a penalty,

consequently there is no requirement that the charge be a pre-estimate of

the Bank's loss. It is denied that the charges are punitive or that they

unduly enrich the Bank.

6. The customer is given advance warning of charges being imposed;

customers are warned by letter when they go overdrawn or over their

agreed limit without arrangement with the Bank, that items will not be

paid and that charges will be incurred. Notice is given of arrangement

fees. Statements show the charges, if any, the customer has incurred

during the course of a month, and which will appear as debits on the

following month's statement.

7. It is denied that si 5 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act applies to

this claim, since the Bank provides details of all charges which are

incorporated into the contracts as pleaded in paragraph 2 above.

8. Without prejudice to the matters pleaded in paragraph 7 it is averred that

the charges are fair and reasonable, and it is denied that they are

unlawful.

9. Without prejudice to any other pleading in this Defence, it is not admitted

that the sum claimed for charges and interest is correct.

1 0. In the premises:

10.1 the charges are for banking services, and are not damages nor a penalty;

10.2 the Bank is entitled by contract to impose the charges, which are fair and reasonable;

10.3 it is denied that the charges are unlawful or contravene any statute or regulation.

11. The Claimant's claim is denied.

Statement of Truth

The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true. I am duly authorised by the Defendant to sign this statement.

Signed: .................l^.^^r^..........................

Robin Hugh Brown, Partner in Foot Anstey Solicitors Dated 14 MAY 2007 by Foot

Anstey of 21 Derry's Cross, Plymouth PL1 2SW Telephone 01752 675000: Fax: 01 752 675500: Reference: GCT/11 3499/81 Solicitors for the Defendant

You will notice that Lloyds have instructed different solicitors for the 2 cases - Sechari Clark & Mitchell for Personal a/c, with Foot Anstey for Business a/c

 

A few more questions, please -

 

I have Allocation Questionaires for both cases, I am a little confused which answers to use. Can someone help?

 

Should I use the same answers for both Personal and Business Accounts?

 

I understand that I need to complete, the questionaires and return to the court, do I need to send a copy to Lloyds solicitors as well, or does the court do that?

 

I presume that I do not need to send the £100 fees, as I am exempt?

 

This is getting scary now!!

[Michael Browne]

Should I use the same answers for both Personal and Business Accounts?

Yes

I understand that I need to complete, the questionaires and return to the court, do I need to send a copy to Lloyds solicitors as well, or does the court do that?

It's not a requirement but recommended as a courtesy

I presume that I do not need to send the £100 fees, as I am exempt?

You need to submit a separate EX160 for each and every fee that is payable.

[choppedminx]

Thanks Michael.

 

I have a new development in this mornings post, please bear with me, so I can explain -

 

I have entered 2 claims, one by myself (NP) for my personal account and our joint personal account, the other by myself and my wife (NP & DP) for our joint business account.

 

I have had a partial offer (see previous posts) of £AAA - this has been deposited into my personal account (NP)

We have had a joint partial offer of £BBB - this has been deposited into our joint personal account.

 

We have presumed, due to lack of Claim number or account number on the 2 offers, that the £BBB refered to the business account.

 

I have written 2 letters accepting £AAA as interim only payment for our 2 personal accounts, and £BBB as interim payment only for the business account, stating that I was still persuing the balance. These were posted Monday 21st May

 

OK so far? - now

 

This morning we have received a letter from the business account solicitors -

 

Dear Sir & Madam

Yourself v XXX Bank pic Claim No.

We act for XXX Bank Pic (the Bank). This letter is marked Without Prejudice and is Confidential and Privileged which means it will not be produced in court and is confidential between you, us and the Bank.

The Bank does not accept that there is any legal merit in your argument. The charges claimed by you have been imposed in accordance with the terms that you agreed with the Bank.

Although your claim has no legal foundation, regrettably the Bank has to take into account the costs of litigating over relatively small sums.

The Bank is therefore willing to settle your claim on the following basis:

1. The amount of £xxxx.xx will be credited to the business account numbered xx-xx-xx xxxxxxxx

2. Payment will be in full and final settlement of this claim.

3. These terms and any correspondence entered into in reaching settlement,

of which this letter is one, will remain confidential between you, us and the

Bank.

We ask you to sign a copy of this letter as confirmation that you are bound by its terms, including the requirement of confidentiality, and to return that copy to us. When we have that signed copy, our client will arrange for a refund to be made and you will write to the court confirming that the claim has been settled.

 

 

The amount they are offering is the total amount of the original claim including interest. I feel I should accept this, and continue with personal accounts claim, adjusting the amount to reflect the first 2 refunds (£AAA + £BBB)

Is this correct?

[choppedminx]

Well, I've sent the acceptance off, didn't see any reason not to.

 

Hope I get the same offer for the personal accounts

[choppedminx]

We have a business bank loan, that is taken from the business account. Even if there are insufficient funds, they always take it - until this month

 

Last week the loan repayment was taken, then returned the following day due to insufficient funds AND THEY HAVE CHARGED ME £35 for the privillage

 

This is a first :?

[1970]

Well done.

 

Very significant that they are paying out since the Birmingham case - clearly they do not see it as a breakthrough.

 

1970.

[choppedminx]

Thanks 1970

 

I will be much happier when I see the money in my account, and then drawn it out

[choppedminx]

Money received, and withdrawn

 

Just the personal accounts to go.

[choppedminx]

Hi

 

I have received a letter from the Court today, regarding our personal accounts claim, what does this mean -

 

 

 

Before DEPUTY DISTRICT JUDGE ALEXANDRE sitting at Poole County Court, The Law Courts, Civic Centre, Park Road, Poole, BH15 2NS.

Upon the Courts own motion. The Court has made this order of its own initiative without a hearing. If you object to the order, you must make an application to have it set aside, varied or stayed within 7 days of receiving it

IT IS ORDERED THAT

Unless the Defendant do by 4.00pm on 27 June 2007 file and serve the allocation questionnaire as ordered the defence be struck out without further order and the Claimant be at liberty to enter judgment.

In the event neither party complies with this order the claim and counterclaim be struck out

As this order has been made without a hearing you may apply within 7 days of service of the order to vary or discharge

its terms

Dated 07 June 2007

 

 

 

I have completed and returned AQ, so am I correct in thinking this letter means Lloyds have not returned their AQ?

 

What do I do know?

[choppedminx]

Anyone?

[Michael Browne]

so am I correct in thinking this letter means Lloyds have not returned their AQ?

 

Correct and if they don't do so by June 27, you can apply for judgement by default

[choppedminx]

Thanks Michael

[Michael Browne]

Unless the Defendant do by 4.00pm on 27 June 2007 file and serve the allocation questionnaire as ordered the defence be struck out without further order and the Claimant be at liberty to enter judgment

Just noticed they have to file and serve, which means they have to serve you with a copy too.

[choppedminx]

Well, another new development - A "Strictly without prejudice, Confidential" letter from banks solicitors, offering a full payment, with the following conditions -

Accordingly, the Bank is, without prejudice to the position set out above, willing to pay you the £xxxx you are claiming by way of Bank charges and interest of £xxxx plus the Court Fee of £100.00 (Includes Allocation Questionare fee) in full and final settlement of your claim. This will be paid on the following basis :-

1. The above amounts(£xxxx in total) will be credited to your account xx-xx-xx xxxxxxxx by the bank. This Payment takes into account the sum of £750.00 already paid to you by our client on the xx/xx/xxxx

2. The payment will be in full and final settlement of your claim.

3. The terms of this agreement are confidential to the parties and their legal representatives.

4. You agree to maintain your accounts with the Bank within your agreed limits and in accordance with the terms that govern the account.

5. You can avoid these fees in future if you agree an increase in your overdraft with the Bank before you try and make payments that would take you over any previously agreed limits. If you do not do so, you will again incur these fees.

6. You make contact with your local Lloyds TSB Branch Manager on 0845 3000 000 to arrange a review of your account. The Bank wishes to avoid further situations which give rise to disputes. A review may be useful to consider whether your current banking arrangements are the most appropriate for your needs.

7. You must notify the court immediately once payment has been made and provide a copy of your letter to the

court for our records. , :

Please let us know whether you are prepared to settle the matter on these term. If so, the Bank will arrange to

credit the above amount to your xx-xx-xx xxxxxxxx account

If you are willing to settle on this basis, please sign a copy of this letter as confirmation that you are bound by its

terms, and return it to us as soon as possible. If the account is in Joint names, you must both sign this letter.

 

 

 

Now, I would have written back stating that I would accept the payment, but without any conditions, however -

 

1) I did not pay the £100 AQ fee (exempt)

2) The bank have refunded more than the £750

 

This makes me a sizable amount better off

 

So, should I just take the money and run to my parachute account? - what do you thinK?

[BARTY]

Congratulations!! :D

As for your question, it's up to you;)

Barty:)