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    • Great thanks, will leave 2 in then, replace 3 and I think its good to go.    This is exactly what I have in my word file ready to send, I think im happy with it and can send to mcol monday morning. Any further thoughts or things to update please let me know.   Again thank you both for your help, really is priceless.         Defence:   1.     The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.    2.     The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.   3.     Paragraph 1 is noted. It is accepted I have in the past had agreements with New Day LTD RE Aqua. I do not recall the precise details or agreement nor the claimant either having failed to plead an agreement/account number within its particulars of claim and have therefore sought verification from the claimant.   4.     Paragraph 2 is noted but until such time the claimant can clarify the agreement account number any breach has yet to be proven.      5.     I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served by either the Claimant or New Day LTD RE Aqua pursuant to the Law of Property Act 1925.   6.     It is denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant. The Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of the Agreement/Assignment/Default notice or Termination requested by CPR 31. 14, and will shortly be in default of my section 78 request, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:   (a)   show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement and; (b)   show and evidence the breach and service of a Default Notice pursuant to sec 87(1) CCA1974 on which the Termination referred to relies upon. (c)   show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d)   show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;   7.     As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.   8.     On the 17th of November I requested to The Claimants Solicitors, Mortimer Clarke by way of a CPR 31.14 copies of the documents referred to within the Claimants particulars to establish what the claim is for. Mortimer Clarke have failed to fulfil my CPR 31:14 request.   9.     On the 16th of November I made a section 78 legal request to the claimant for a copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement. The claimant has as of of 06/12/21 failed to comply.   10.  By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
    • Hi just a quickie   Now in reference to my Post#2 here have they actually provided you with those policies that I pointed out and importantly a copy of there Public Liability Insurance?   If they haven't   Make sure and send them a little reminder adding to the letter in Post#32 that so far they have failed to provide these and you require clarification as to their reason for this failure     Dear Sir/Madam   Complaint Reference: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX   Further to my recent letter about this matter Dated XX/XX/2021 I would also like to add that so far you have still failed to provide the following:   Copy of your Compensation Policy (not the leaflet) Copy of your Complaints Policy (not the leaflet) Copy of your Customer service Charter/Policy (not the leaflet) Copy of your Public Liability Insurance (not the leaflet) Copy of Repairs an Maintenance Policy (not the leaflet)   I asked for these is my letter to yourselves dated XX/XX/2021, to date you have failed to respond to this request nor is the Housing Association being Open and Accountable to it's Service Users and I require full clarification for the reason for this failure and when you are going to provide what I have requested.   If you refuse to provide these I require full clarification as to your reason with links to the relevant legislation and exactly which parts you are relying on for your refusal of my request.     Note: If they have answered this please ignore but from your responses I think they have tried to ignore this so you add this to put a rocket up their 'beep' so to speak.   You are more than welcome to the help it's what we are here for, you just look after yourself and take care     
    • The DVLA know less about POFA than my dog that died twenty years ago. They also never admit they have made an error.   Trading Standards would probably be a better avenue for you either on Council inaction on no pp thus appearing to aid and abet a PE scam, condoning PE committing an offence and allowing them to rip off the Council customers as well as financial impropriety by not insisting that PE pay for the requisite fees for permission. You could also complain to the ICO on the same grounds and get two investigations going.
    • I am surprised that POPLA found that your appeal had failed when Initial's response to the appeal had been withdrawn. There was no need for them to adjudicate. POP.LA should have agreed that you had won your appeal. I wonder if Initial  knew something that you and obviously POPLA didn't.  Ignore DRP. I was going to advise  you  write to Initial stating that as they had withdrawn their PCN on appeal so if DRP were acting on instructions from Initial they have breached your GDPR. However on second thoughts you may be best to send them a SAR first to get confirmation that they had withdrawn their claim before going for the breach.
    • so the eon A/C was never in her name anyway?
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me against abbey....


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once again i have had an email from Inga kirkman asking for my claim so she can settle it. not only do they have all the previous correspondances and the first part of the court order i had sent her via email my claim. usual excuse that she cannot open the files and can she have the sprdsheets in word form???? guess Abbey are still running on WIN 95.....sent her the files again and got a thank you today... now going to send her this... let us know if it is ok or needs some working...


Dear Ms Kirkman

Thank you for your swift response to my email. Now you are in possession of these files I now hope this matter can be dealt swiftly and not left until the last minute to be settled. As we are both aware your company has not gone to court to contest any of the claims brought against Abbey. The few cases you have stepped into to court for are infact not for the claim for charges, but infact are for the claim of the interest charged. Abbey had settled these claims for the charges out of court and the claimant then proceeded to fight the claim on the interest alone. Also the couple of cases that Lloyds TSB have won were in fact lost by the claimants on the basis of their preparation for the claims and not Lloyds defence of the charges as you are aware that they did not infact turn up in court. To that matter these cases hold no precedence and as highlighted in the media have been used to pressure claimants into dropping their claims.

Hopefully you will respond to this email as quickly has you did to the last one and I hope to be able to put an end to this matter in the near future.

yours faithfully

she does not respond quickly to emails and it took me to write URGENT in the subject bar for her to look at them....

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  • 3 weeks later...
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well i waited for Inga Kirkman to get back to me about her emails...when she did get back to me and it took 3 weeks.this is what she put...


"Without prejudice"


Dear Sir,


Thank you for your email.


We note that you still insist on payment in full. To this end we are unable to assist. With respect, your insistence on payment in full does not represent a genuine intention by you to resolve this matter without recourse to a fully contested court hearing. There is no commercial incentive to our client to resolve your claim. Further, you have made no account for the transactions that have the in fact occurred on your account. There must be some charge for these transactions.


Each case is determined on its individual merits. Any case involving any other Claimant or Bank is irrelevant to your individual claim.


Should you wish to reconsider your position and put forward a more commercially palatable offer to our client, we are more than willing to take instructions in relation to the same.


Kind regards,



Inga Kirkman

Senior Associate

Solicitor, NSW



Now i guess this is a standard email she is banging off to people... on one side she is saying stick it up ur backside we r not paying and then she says come back to us with a better offer and we will look in to it....more stalling tatics...and no only that the email has very bad grammer.....and i hate the "without prejudice" bit... now when and how can they choose to put that??? a letter like that could be useful in my court bundle. it shows contradicting offers from them.. like good cop bad cop!!!


also i have just been sorting out my court bundle and i was just wondering what the banks have to do when it comes to the "order of directions". do they have the same as me or does the judge do a seperate one for them... if not if i send of the first part of the order and the court bundle what do i get back in return from Abbey??? knowing the bank its nothing.... well i guess thats the end off my contact with Ms Kirkman... or shall i return the email??? if so what shall i reply with??? otherwise i shall just let it run its course and wait till the 4th september for the court hearing....

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Well i would write back to them and say that you would be willing to pay their costs per breach if they would reveal them.


and this without prejudice nonsense is highly over rated, if it is not a genuine attempt to settle then it can loose the WP status. And i see that she is banging on about commercially palatable again, Settling at this stage in full IS commercially palatable as they save time, effort and the cost of a court bundle if they do it now. OOO she does wind me up



Lula v Abbey - Settled

Lula v Abbey (2) - Settled

Lula v Abbey (3) - Stayed


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Is there someone inparticular at /Abbey I should be copying my letters into via e mail? Iv got so many people at the mo, Pam Speed and some other guy in complaints there seems to be no continuity or a name to reply to, when you get to court stage is there a particular solicitor that deals.skeggsy


Won Nationwide £900 and £1908 Bank Charges

Lloyds personal account 1,861

Lloyds Bus Account 2k

Abbey bank acc. Stayed 2008


CCA requested Barclaycard Nov 08 - n1 issued - GAVE UP

CCA Mbna Nov 08- n1 issued - GAVE UP

Marks and Spencer Money Nov 08 -lost found 2b enforceable.

Tomson Holiday - WON


if I help you tip my little scales it gives me a thrill. MT

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if it was an offer it would have been a london number, it was probably soe telemarketing [problem]



Lula v Abbey - Settled

Lula v Abbey (2) - Settled

Lula v Abbey (3) - Stayed


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trust me i hold no shares....... since that call i have no calls since... maybe it was not that important...


anyway i do have a question... i have just bout finished my court bundle and need these answers..


1. does anyone have a complete list of contents i can look at so i can see if i have things in the right order... see i f i am missing anything?


2. when i got the defense letter i did not respond in anyway to it...wrong??? this also carries the question what do i do bout the defence rebuttal??? do i just lay it out as point to point...


3. what year shall i include for T&C and where.


all help will be great!!!!!!!!! need to finish off soon... dont need to be in till 20th august but i am moving house next week and go on holiday 19th august....

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adam.............this is my list of contents.not saying it's right or anything, just what I did...i'll have a think about the other questions for you




Witness Statement 1-2

Statement of Evidence 3-6

Correspondence 7-49Inc Latest Schedule of Charges (34-38)Relevant Case Law Summary 50-52

Dunlop v New Garage 53-54

UTCCR 1999 55-65

UCTA 1977 65-76

SOGA 1982 77-91

Early Day Motion from the House of Parliament 92-93

OFT Statement Summary 94-97

Statements 98-242

All advice offered here is my opinion only based on what I would do in a given situation. If you wish to act on it you do so at your own discretion


I have no legal expertise or qualification, and give advice on the basis of my own experience and nothing else.

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had my staements next to schedule of charges... and did a case summary stating what i thought of my case and all the publicity and how the banks r going about the cases.... thank you... and thanks for looking at the other questions.. the only ones bothering me r the t&c and the defense rebuttal

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  • 4 weeks later...

* BUMP **


just finalising my court bundle but stuck on the T & C... my account was opened in '95 and the charges r from 2001-06.... now do i include all the t&c for the 6 years in full or just certain parts of them and do i only include just one t&c in full ( maybe the most recent one)

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You only need one set of Ts&Cs as far, as i am aware, i would think the earlier ones would be better than the current one as they clearly state a breach of contract,


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still need help on my T & C... its the last bit and i am feeling a bit dumb. all other parts sorted ... what i need to know is what i need to include and why.... the furthest t & c is 1998 and i also have the present ones... what shall i be highlighting... its an area i am stuck..... in short i have understood everything but this....... i have read this site and others and they say that t & c r not really relavant as abbey have admitted a breach of contract.... so in short what shall i print off and what shall i include....

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Include T&C's from the period which the charges were levied. Just 2 lots will be fine. One from, say, 2001 and another from 2005.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!



Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Finally i have completed the bundle... its been very stressfull...what to put in, where to put it and so on.... this is my list of contents...




The Claim:

Timeline of Claim:

Correspondence With Regards To Claim:

Bank Statements:

Schedule Of Charges:

Interest Calculator:

Statement Of Evidence:

Terms and Conditions 1998 and 2007:

Relevant Case Law To Penalty Charges:

Early Day Motion From House Of Parliament:

OFT Summary On Credit Cards:

Transcript Of Interview With Peter McNamara, Former Head Of Personal Banking At Lloyds TSB:

Excerpt From Report Into Penalty Fees Charged By Australian Banks:

Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co. Ltd v. New Garage and Motor Co. Ltd:

Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977:

The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999:

Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982:

Claim for Contractual Interest:

u will probably tell me i have missed something.. but i will have to worry another day cause tomorrow i go on holiday to Cyprus and i will not care for one week ....


as for the courts i have had no letter bout a stay and i have had nothing from abbey since APRIL.. no court bundle , letters or bugger all... so when it gets to court i can point out that Abbey have been very very quiet....

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  • 2 weeks later...

well i have come back from my lovely holiday in cyprus and i was dreading coming back to a letter from abbey or the court saying there was a stay on the account.. but nothing... now the cut of date for the court bundle was the 21st august... i presume i should of recieved something from abbey, in the form of their court bundle???? so what now... court date is next next tuesday, 4th sept, and i have sent in everything on time. i have changed addresses and this has been updated by the courts and using track and trace it has been recieved by abbey. that was on the 1st august... so no excuses on that side... aldershot court is still going ahead as usuall so i am at a lost... all help on this matter will be great.. shall i phone the court up and ask is they have recieved the CB from abbey... not going to phone abbey.... i have a letter already prepared if they apply for a stay.

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In my case even though Abbey had not lodged a court bundle the solicitor on the day applied for a stay, I had written to the court to have the abbey defence stuck out for non compliance but this was overlooked. The judge stayed part of the case and adjourned the part relating to breach of contract (see my thread). It appears that the courts seem to be lenient with the banks regarding CB's because of the OFT case. Be prepared to object to a stay application on the day and if successful be able to go ahead with the case there and then. It is a racing cert that the solicitor for the Abbey will be totally unprepared to defend the case. Good luck on the 4th

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just spoken to aldershot court due to my case being held tomorrow... as upto now nothing has been recieved by the courts from abbey... i also asked if there will be anyone else in court at the same time and the answer was NO!!!!!! v v v v v very nervous now... in a way i am glad cause i am the only one on the day against abbey.. so there will be no mass stay from them.. infact i doubt they will even turn up..... which i hope will mean i can put my case across one to one better then if it was a case of picking a number and waiting inline to talk... i have printed of some pointers and questions i need to ask the judge and abbey ( if they r there) and also the usual things like why i should get my money back and the CI as well.... i have printed off some paperwork off incase they apply for a stay ( the judge is working on a case by case process so he/she is not doing blanket stays) and also made a list of things abbey should of done and they have not.... i think i am ready but some good old slap on the backs good wishes and some Winston Churchill stirring words of encouragement are needed.... fingers crossed.....

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