Wallers/Northern Rock vs Me

[Stornoway]

Continuing to follow the thread with interest !! There is some very good and well researched advice coming through. As you know I managed to stop mine before it went to court but I agree with Gingerheid that paying the arrears would surely look very good to the judge (you should be able to pay over the phone to the collection team at NR).

 

Thanks for asking about me, I'm having some very good success in reclaiming charges (albeit all going to DCAs so far) and in having defaults removed through s78 claims. This site is so empowering and I finally can see light at the end of the tunnel.

 

I really do hope things work out for you.

[Cristal]

Phew!! And I thought the purpose of the charge would be to secure the loan and lower any monthly payments and that the charge would sit there until the property is sold or I remortgage and redeem it. Should i let the court/No Rock know that it's a negative equity situation?

[Cristal]

Continuing to follow the thread with interest !! There is some very good and well researched advice coming through. As you know I managed to stop mine before it went to court but I agree with Gingerheid that paying the arrears would surely look very good to the judge (you should be able to pay over the phone to the collection team at NR).

 

Thanks for asking about me, I'm having some very good success in reclaiming charges (albeit all going to DCAs so far) and in having defaults removed through s78 claims. This site is so empowering and I finally can see light at the end of the tunnel.

 

I really do hope things work out for you.

 

I'm so pleased that things are progressing in your favor! I'm interested in hearing more about having your defaults removed.

 

Do you think I should actually pay the arrears now or wait until the Court sees my proposal to pay?

 

And, I agree, this site is unbelievably empowering!

[Gingerheid]

Phew!! And I thought the purpose of the charge would be to secure the loan and lower any monthly payments and that the charge would sit there until the property is sold or I remortgage and redeem it.

 

Apart from the lower monthly payments bit, that is the purpose of a charge and how it works.

 

There is a secondary matter that the charge gives them the possibility to apply for possession of the house. It is a bit like a mortgage - you have to pay them or they can apply to force the sale of the house. The different between them and a mortgage is that under the terms of the mortgage you only have to pay the mortgage XXXX per month, and if you do they can't touch you. However in theory NR they are entitled to the whole lot immediately, and if they don't get that they could apply to sell the house.

 

In your favour would go that NR would not make the application if they didn't think it would benefit them (ie unless there was equity), and it is also at this stage that the judge has more power to exercise discretion (ie I'd be amazed if they would give possession if you were now meeting the terms of the original agreement, but in theory they could.)

[Cristal]

Thanks, G.

 

Pretty scary when put like that. So, I assume I should stress there is no equity on the property - is it worth one last letter like that to No Rock? Also, should I pay the arrears tomorrow or leave it as a proposal to the Court? It's such a minefield......maybe i should speak to a lawyer tomorrow?

 

Again, huge thanks for your invaluable input. You sound v. savvy about it all.

[Gingerheid]

Everything is worth a try, especially when it really matters, but I honestly don't think there is anything on this planet that will make NR not want a charge on your house. Looking at it from their point of view, they have already incurred most of the expense (possibly all), and taking it the final yards can't really possibly be to their detriment in any way I can think of.

 

I'd certainly stress the negative equity bit, as it's massively relevant to whether it's would then be worth their while to take the next step and start enforcing the charge. Enforcing a charge is an expensive game if you resist all the way, and is also fraught with the difficulty that while a judge might happily give Tom, Dick and Northern Rock a charge on your house if you owe them money, he will feel pangs of reluctance about kicking you out it!

 

I don't know the answer to the other questions, I'm afraid. Although I think payments look immeasurably better than promises, I'm not certain what room for flexibility a judge would feel he had. I ceratinly don't think they're going to give on on the basis of a promised payment (would you?), but I don't know how much more liekly they are to give up on the basis of a received payment. In cold realisty the law says they are entitled to the charge they are asking for.

 

Even if you did avoid it this time, what would happen three months down the line?

[Cristal]

G, thank you. I appreciate the unvarnished truth......better to anticipate the worse case scenario. I have even considered proposing I pay three months' in advance now, in addition ot the arrears.

 

If I get thru to my lawyer tomorrow and he has anything of value to contribute (as if), I will certainly let you know.

 

Again, endless thanks for all your advice!

[lookinforinfo]

Cristal, when you are in Court and the payments bringing you up to date are

still insufficient for the Judge to declare that a charge will not be applied on your property tthen make these points.

1] At the moment your loan is unsecured and you are therefore paying a

higher rate of interest to reflect this. If they are able to secure a charge,

which would be a breach of your contract with them, since there is nothing

in the agreement that allows this, at the very least it would only be equitable

were they to reduce the APR to reflect their extra security. And hence the

payments should be lowered to reflect this. Especially as in time you would

expect the house to return to having a positive equity.

2] At the moment, there is no equity in the property and you are concerned

that by applying a charging order at the moment, should your finances worsen, and you

may find it necessary to sell the house to cut down on your outgoings, you

would be prohibited from doing so by NR who would then have lost their

"security". This action by NR could then leave you wiith no way out other

than to become insolvent.So NR, the mortgage company and your self would

all be the losers, rather than just yourself. Since without the mortgage, you

would be able to pay out less in rent and to pay off the difference in the mortgage and the selling price, leaving you in a better position to continue

to pay NR more easily. You can only use that argument if it is true, so you

may need to look at rental prices in the area and work out what the shortfall

in your mortgage would be if you were to sell the house and repay the

outstanding balance over a reasonable term..

[Gingerheid]

I have just been reading the Consumer Credit Act 1974 , and saw something that made me think of you...

 

EDIT - apparently it was repealed and only applies if the agreement was entered into before May 2005

 

[quote] 129.—(1) If it appears to the court just to do so—

(a)

on an application for an enforcement order; or

(b)

on an application made by a debtor or hirer under this paragraph after

service on him of—

(i)

a default notice, or

(ii) a notice under section 76(1) or 98(1); or

©

in an action brought by a creditor or owner to enforce a regulated

agreement or any security, or recover possession of any goods or land to which a

regulated agreement relates,

the court may make an order under this section (a " time order ").

(2) A time order shall provide for one or both of the following, as the court considers

just—

(a) the payment by the debtor or hirer or any surety of any sum owed under a

regulated agreement or a security by such instalments, payable at such times, as

the court, having regard to the means of the debtor or hirer and any surety,

considers reasonable;

(b)the remedying by the debtor or hirer of any breach of a regulated agreement

(other than non-payment of money) within such period as the court may

specify..

 

I think the bold bits apply to you.

 

I think this is what you need - to apply to the court for an order that:

 

- You make payments of (whatever the original payments were) and that

- you rectify any previous breach of the agreement by bringing it up to date.

 

I am certain that a court would feel it just to make such an order in your case.

 

However you nevertheless seem to have serious problems and these need to be addressed; for which I heartily recommend CCCS.

[Stornoway]

Cristal, any update ?

[Cristal]

Thanks for checking in. It all got v. messy. I had applied for an extension and the Court advised me to tick the box 'defending part of the claim', as i had to tick one of them. No Rock flatly refused my offer of paying the arrears and resuming payments - probably because they thought I was defending the claim!! Big mistake to take the Court's advice. I've had to resort to a lawyer - No. Rock is now insisting on me paying the arrears and resuming normal payments......exactly what I offered to do! AND they want a charge on the property. A mess. Have asked my lawyer if I should CCA them and then send an SAR. I've noticed that the agreement they faxed me lacks the 'your right to cancel' clause and their signature predates mine by two days - also, no T&C, though it was not a response to a CCA. Will keep you posted. Was waiting until I had some real info before updating the thread. Again, many thanks for your interest.

[eggy12]

hi there and sorry to hear your story.

I myself have recieved the same letter from wallers and have today paid up my arrears before there 7 day deadline.They said they are still commencing with the charge to house.

How would this have been for you if you were able to pay the arrears before the deadline ?

[Cristal]

Arghhhh!!! Sorry you're involved with Wallers and Northern Rock. I'm afraid you are dealing with nightmare people who do not understand the notion of negotiating. I offered to pay the arrears but realised that it wouldn't make any difference - they pressed on with court and I now have a CCJ against my name. They have lodged an interim charging order on my property (for £36,000 - the loan was only £25,000) which becomes 'official' at a court hearing at the end of the month. I have just discovered that I may have some equity in the property and am now DESPERATELY trying to remortgage to pay them off (of course, because of my now terrible credit rating, a remortgage will mean I'm with a much higher interest rate, sub prime lender) - once they have a charging order, they will press me to sell the property if i can't remortgage. I wished I had paid attention to another poster, who advised me to CCA and SAR them to delay things, but I felt I was too far down the line and was worried about aggravating the situation (Ha! as if I should have cared!). I stupidly engaged a lawyer to deal with this and he has been totally useless. Ironically, Northern Rock was one of the creditors that I made constant payments to - I failed to return one phone call and they hit me with the court order - all sent by snail mail to ensure that I had hardly any time to respond.

 

So, in answer to your question, I think the fact you paid the arrears will look good in court and even better if you can illustrate you can resume normal payments but I don't think it will stop them.....but consult someone with more experience and better advice than I can give....maybe go thru this thread and find a post to quote and ask....I'd be interested to see the responses. So very sorry you're dealing with these people - they are utter bullies and will not listen - maybe the court will see the logic of your proposed payment pattern. Let me know how you get on....

[eggy12]

Hi Cristal,

Been checking to see your progress,i do hope things have not got worse for you.

Myself, im trying to remortgage to pay everything off,ive just entered a DMP to hold them(wallers and c/cards) back for a while and give me extra cash to live a little.Hopefully if this remortgage goes through within the next couple of weeks i can payup before any more defaults arrive.I could stay in the DMP for the next 13 years and just pay 100 a month but i was advised that near the end of that term and as if house prices carry on rising the parasites can still insist on there interest over that period...So remortgage is only way forward.Im paying out on debt to the tune of 820 a month mortgage on top =1500, remortgage,pay off all debt and monthly payments drop to 822,nearly half what im paying out now,the only down side is at the mo i have 13 years left on current mortgage,im having to take this new one out over 20 years so im hoping to pile as much extra in as i can to clear it up earlier.

its been nearly 5 weeks since i sent back court forms and have heard nothing yet, any ideas how long it will take ? Under the dmp ive offered them 62 a month instead of the 300 they were getting.

Hoping things have got better for you

 

eggy12

[Cristal]

Hi Cristal,

Been checking to see your progress,i do hope things have not got worse for you.

Myself, im trying to remortgage to pay everything off,ive just entered a DMP to hold them(wallers and c/cards) back for a while and give me extra cash to live a little.Hopefully if this remortgage goes through within the next couple of weeks i can payup before any more defaults arrive.I could stay in the DMP for the next 13 years and just pay 100 a month but i was advised that near the end of that term and as if house prices carry on rising the parasites can still insist on there interest over that period...So remortgage is only way forward.Im paying out on debt to the tune of 820 a month mortgage on top =1500, remortgage,pay off all debt and monthly payments drop to 822,nearly half what im paying out now,the only down side is at the mo i have 13 years left on current mortgage,im having to take this new one out over 20 years so im hoping to pile as much extra in as i can to clear it up earlier.

its been nearly 5 weeks since i sent back court forms and have heard nothing yet, any ideas how long it will take ? Under the dmp ive offered them 62 a month instead of the 300 they were getting.

Hoping things have got better for you

 

eggy12

 

Hi Eggy....sorry I haven't posted for a while. I've been preoccupied, putting out other financial fires. Being this broke is exhausting! Good to hear from you...in the end, I re mortgaged and redeemed the Northern Rock loan. And I had to go with a mortgage company that has punitive rates. Of course, all this bad history sticks on my credit file for SIX years!! I would love to know why the term is six whole years?! So, in answer to your question, I'm not sure how long it will be before you hear back from the court...have you tried calling the court? Incidentally, what does DMP stand for? Good luck with everything...let me know what happens. It sounds like you have a handle on things! cx

[eggy12]

hi, A DMP is debt management programme,through CCCS,they are mentioned in your thread.I only sent the paper work away on friday for remortgage,ive the same problem as you with bad credit but if i do get this mortgage the rate is fixed at 6.34 for 3 years,had to use a specialist broker(specialist rip off merchant more like..£595 fee).God i know about the exhausting part!! its 24/7.

yes 6 years, its a long time but after that we can get a better deal elsewhere away from the parasites.

Anyway good to hear from you and good look with the future

X