Hi Remember Me? Youngs Vs Lloyds TSB

[Bev77]

Well I was just about to go out this morning, and was going to drop the letter into the court, but thought I'd give them a ring first. Good job I did. The clerk told me that all Judges at my local court are NOT agreeing to any stays by the banks, and my prelim hearing will go ahead this friday! Woo-hoo! Another step closer!

 

Wish me luck for Friday! Well my hubby anyway!

[zootscoot]

Excellent news!

 

Best of luck

[canningtownjohnny]

Really good news, will be watching your case, GOOD LUCK

[olliebollie]

Good luck for Friday.

[dolly]

That's really good news - fingers crossed Bev

 

Mine has been stayed

[GuidoT]

Which court are you at please?

[Bev77]

Hi Guido it's Romford County Court

[Bev77]

Does anyone know what happens at these prelim hearings? Hubby (and me) is starting to panic now, and thinks he's going to blow it all! What is the format? Is it informal? What does he have to do/say to the Judge? Just plead his case with the Judge? Or will the Judge lead him?

 

Got some paperwork ready to show the Judge. SOC; Draft Order for Directions, and reasons why they should be ordered; Copy of the text of the Lincoln 'abuse' order; and a list of settled cases, to show that the banks are routinely settling the cases without showing up to court.

 

Anything else we might need?

 

Helllppp....starting to panic now!

[dolly]

Good luck Bev - fingers crossed it goes ok.

 

xx

[mooshy]

Gosh good luck x

[Bev77]

Well, we've just got home! It was scheduled for 10am, but there were 18 people in total, we were number 15, and they were all against various banks, and all scheduled for 10am!

 

Luckily, he overheard someone coming out of a case previous and they said that the Judge had put a stay on it. I told him that if the Judge did put a stay on it then he should state that it contravenes his right to a fair hearing within a reasonable timescale. I didn't put the stay letter in our small bundle and I couldn't remember what directive or act it was from, so it was all from memory.

 

Hubby was a total star and didn't lose his head. He said the Judge was very much on our side and gave the defence quite a hard time of it. Judge asked if we objected to the stay that Lloyds were requesting. Hubby said yes because it goes against his right to a trial within a reasonable timescale but couldn't remember what paragraph it was from, lol!

 

He said the Judge smiled at this then turned to the defence and said "So, why do you think the stay should be put in place?" The guy in defence started stammering "er..er..because...erm...erm.." pmsl! He said something about some European Court thing (hubby can't remember exactly) and the Judge said, "I didn't ask about that, I asked why you think the stay should be placed" lol. He had to quickly rifle through his notes and he quoted another case (hubby can't remember what one-too much adrenaline methinks!) as the reason for the stay. The Judge then said "Well, I don't agree with that, but I am going to put a stay upon this case, because if the case were to go ahead without the stay, it wouldn't get heard until January now, and and that is when the test case is being heard" He also said that if he didn't put the stay on, Lloyds would appeal against the desicion and it would push the case back even further, so he said he thinks it is in our best interests to apply the stay. Although he did say that both parties can apply to lift the stay after the test case in January.

 

Well, I guess that's it till Jan now? There's no point applying to lift the stay, as Lloyds will not agree to it, so will make it even more drawn out? Just wish I'd have had the money to start the court process back last year when I first started with all of this, maybe I'd have got something back by now! It's very annoying!

 

Thanks for all the well wishes. I'll be joining you all in Jan awaiting the outcome of the test case! Which I really can't see them winning, by the way!

[dolly]

Aw Bev, never mind...we're still in the same boat

 

Sounds like your husband did a fab job though.

[Bev77]

Aw Bev, never mind...we're still in the same boat

 

Sounds like your husband did a fab job though.

 

How's yours going? Have you still got your hearing next weds? Is it a prelim hearing?

 

Oh I just remembered something else. The Judge said that we need to add more to our case as if it were to go to a full hearing, there isn't enough in our case. Bearing in mind that we still haven't submitted the full bundle yet, I was hoping that we wouldn't need to. I guess I'd better get on and do that now.

[dolly]

How's yours going? Have you still got your hearing next weds? Is it a prelim hearing?

 

Oh I just remembered something else. The Judge said that we need to add more to our case as if it were to go to a full hearing, there isn't enough in our case. Bearing in mind that we still haven't submitted the full bundle yet, I was hoping that we wouldn't need to. I guess I'd better get on and do that now.

 

Our hearing was next Wednesday but it has been stayed - been told there is no point wasting our money and appealing.

[Bev77]

I've been reading this http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/108430-stays-info-guidance.html and wondering if it is worthwhile sending one of the letters asking for the stay to be removed? I know my Judge said that it was in our best interests for the stay to 'stay' as it were, but I don't believe that it is. I'm especially interested in the 'hardship' part of the letter, and believe that to be true.

 

Is anyone sending these letters to remove the stay? Even after the Judge has said that it's best not to? Just wondering if I should or not? It seems an awful long time to wait without doing anything? Especially as the OFT case isn't going to be settled in Jan, I believe it'll take longer that, and may even be appealed to a higher court?

 

Hmmm? Any ideas?

[GuidoT]

I would apply to have it removed, see here also:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/17065-application-removal-stay-updated.html#post1046820

 

This matter will not be resolved in Jan 2008, I have seen judges ordering stays until April 2008. It would not surpirse me if this time next year we are still no further forward.

[Bev77]

I'd already had that letter printed off, ready to send when I got the letter from SC&M telling me that they were requesting the stay. When I rang the court and the clerk told me that the Judges were not agreeing to stays, I assumed I didn't need it, so took it out of my small bundle. How annoyed am I, that I didn't have the foresight to think that they were seeing the cases on an individual basis, and to take the d@mn letter with me anyway!

 

Which letter would you suggest that I send? Although they both have the same underlying points, the wording, layout and some paragraphs are included/not included. I guess it doesn't really matter which one, they'll both do the same thing?

 

I feel very strange with the fact that I am going directly against the Judges orders, by applying to remove the stay. Like I'm breaking the law almost, iykwim? ;o)

[olliebollie]

Hi

 

Sorry it didn't go your way yesterday

I'm not the best to advise on stays, but as I read it, the Judge didn't order you not to apply for the stay, just advised it might not be in your best intrest to do so. So your not really going against his orders. You have the right to appeal. You've got nothing to lose by appealing.

 

Good Luck

[Bev77]

Thanks Ollie, I think I will appeal, just have to wait for the paperwork to come through from the court now.

 

I'm just sorting out my court bundle, as it has to be in by weds 22nd. And have quite a few questions, which I hope someone can help me with.

 

1) I'm struggling to find a few things on the index:-

XX6 - "Correspondance tending to show charges arise from breach of contract"

XX24 - "Abuse of process orders" I have a copy of the text of the Lincoln 'abuse' case, is this good enough? Or is there something else?

and;

XX12 & 13 - oft 1 and oft 2. I have downloaded and printed the whole OFT report - is this both parts? All that I'll need?

 

2) Also, In the witness statement, under breach of contract section 13 ii) clause 4.1 of the 1998 t&c's; iii) term 9a of the 2000 t&c's; iv) clause 9.2 of the terms of use of debit card; v) clause 6.5 of the terms of use of cheque guarantee; and vi) from defendants published charges leaflet.

 

All of the above, I do not have and are not included in the bundle - do I need to search for them individually and put them in the bundle and then amend the index to show where they are? If so, does it matter where in the index they go?

 

3) Also section 24 of the witness statement mentions the Martin Orton letter - do I need this? Again do I need to re-shuffle the index to fit it in?

 

4) Section 25 mentions a letter dated april 2006 referring to charges being referred to as being a contribution towards admin costs - I have no such letter. Do I need to search for this on the forum somewhere or delete it as necessary?

 

5) In Section 41 it refers to the OFT UTCCR with relevant sections being quoted. 5.8 is fine, but section 18 1.3, I do not have in my UTCCR, it only goes as far as section 17.5. Have I missed some of it somewhere?

 

Sorry there are so many questions, and sorry if if I sound thick with some of them but I just wanna get this right first time, and not give SC&M anything to pull me up on!

[Bev77]

I have finally received the 'official' order from the court and it says

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

1. The order dated 18 July 2007 is rescinded.

2. The present proceedings be stayed pending the final determination of the Commercial Court proceedings between the Office of Fair Trading and the defendant (and seven others) comprised in Claim No 2007 Folio 1186

3. Both parties shall have liberty to apply.

 

I take it, this is normal? Now I have the official paperwork I can go ahead with appealing the stay. Wish me luck.

[broke dave]

Good luck Bev. Keep on their backs; I'm sure that if enough people request for stays to be lifted then something positive will happen. The courts are hoping that the test case will free up some time for them. If every stay is appealed then the system will soon get clogged up again.

[Bev77]

This matter will not be resolved in Jan 2008, I have seen judges ordering stays until April 2008. It would not surpirse me if this time next year we are still no further forward.

 

Just checking in, seems you can see into the future Guido!

 

Can't wait until this is all over!

[GuidoT]

Hi Bev77

 

I said that on the 17 August 2007, on reflection, I think I was being optimistic.

 

In furtherance of that it would not surprise if we are no further forward this time next year.

 

Anyway we expect the judgement in July 2008 and that will not in itself resolve whether the charges are fair or not and will be appealed irrespective of the outcome.

 

We just have to be patient, my view is that the answer will be worth the wait.

[Bev77]

Well, nearly 18 months later and I'm back - but still with no news!

 

Hubby lost his job (about 6 weeks ago now) and seeing as he was the main earner, things are EXTREMELY tight now. Especially as we have been blessed with a baby on the way due in Jan, plus all the cost of xmas, and usual household bills. It would be really helpful of them to pay up NOW!

 

I have tried the hardship route, but SCM have written back twice with the same letter saying that they are still looking into it. The last one I received was about 6ish months ago now.

 

Like many others I suspect, I am getting pretty fed up of all this now, having first started my claim back in 2006. At the time it was just under the 5k limit for Small Claims Court, but what happens now? Do we still claim back to 2000 plus interest for the last 3 years whilst it's been stayed? Or do we have to lose 3 years and only claim back till 2003? Well 2004 (or later), by the time it's all finally sorted?

 

I was looking at taking it through the Ombudsman, but there is a section at the bottom which says something about if you have taken Court action they can't help you - so what now?

 

I am truly stuck. Stuck with what to do now, if there is anything I can do? Stuck for money, still with bills to pay, and am worrying constantly!

 

Any ideas?