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Lady H v Monument


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Well didn,t think i would have so much trouble with Monument. Posted a few times in the "No signed loan agreement " thread but having so much trouble thought it best to start my own thread. Have had my monument card for about 7 years and just paid monthly payments as they fell and very rarely checked statements(stupid I know) recently noticed that balance was rising when i havent used the card for ages. After checking noticed that i was being charged £20/£25 sometimes more per month "payment break" not a clue what this was but found out from this site poss PPI. I never sign up for this so I sent CCA request asking for copy of origional agreement just to make sure and claim back money. Received a sheet of paper headed "reply card" with my name and address typed and a photocopy of my signature! nothing else. Obviously wrote back to them explaining not complied etc and heard nothing for 6/7 weeks. Last week i received a letter from them saying had complied and had gone above and beyond what they needed to supply(take it they meant my sig...sorry but i got zero else) and they have now passed the matter on to DCA and will continue to collect debt. Have contacted DCA to advise but they have ignored me and continue to telephone(ansa phone picks up messages) I am at a loss as to what to do now as these idiots seem to think that is the end of it, far from it as far as i'm concerned if i am right they owe me a lot of money and a strongly worded letter to them is coming has anyone else had similar problems or any input for letters/advice would be great. I have just sent of myn S.A.R. request to them also

 

Thanks x

Mrs H

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following on from the above post i have today received another letter from thinktheyaresmartalec monument. In order to help clear the acount they are making a "generous offer" if i pay an amount representing 60% of the complete blance they will cut their losses and my account will be cleared and closed. Very generous of them not. They are obviously still ignoring the fact that they are in default and have committed a criminal offence, no not ignoring denying.They are continuing to chase me for the debt. I am at a loss as to what to do now has anyone else had this problem should i write to them again if so what. I want to claim back all the interest I have paid as well as the PPI premiums. Any ideas comments or advice would be very very very welcome.

Mrs H

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You are abosolutley right with your standpoint. Report them without delay to trading standards and the Office of Fair Trading, and tell them what has gone on with copies of all the information that you have supplied and been supplied with. Get a copy of your credit file as well (free for a month with experian) to ss if they have entered any incorrect information. To get them off your back on the telephone when you write to them tell them that they are in breech of the OFTs guidelines on debt collection, they will soon back off.

 

Mike

If I've helped tip my scales

 

Blair Oliver & Scott, £2500 written off December 2006 Default removed January 2007:D

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/56001-mike220359-blair-oliver-scott.html

 

Monument, didn't sign the agreement

:D

 

Lloyds TSB didn't sign the agreement!

:D

 

Citicards, didn't sign the agreement

:D

 

RBS tut, tut!

:rolleyes:

 

Morgan Stanley, oh dear

:rolleyes:

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Following on from the above i have now received the following letter from monument. Bearing in mind that what they sent me was simply a photocopy of my signature and above my signature it says "i apply for a monument credit card......" obviously a photocopy of my signature from the mailshot application i returned. Nothing else not even a copy of the application

 

Dear Mrs H

 

i write further to you recent letter regarding your account.

 

Our obligation under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act is to provide you with a copy of the Executed Agreement. There is no requirement for this to be a facsimile copy or a copy which complies in every aspect with Section 61 of the Consumer Credit Act.

 

The Consumer Credit(Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 makes clear that their is no requirement for a copy of the Executed Agreement to contain the origional signature box.

 

We have therefore, in any event gone beyond our statutory duty in providing you with a copy of the signed application form. We would disagree with your contention that it is illegible. (said no such thing)

 

As we have already provided you with a copy of your origional Credit Agreement (hang on didn't they just say Application Form!!) and a statement of your account(this must have fallen out of the envelope as didnt get it and no reference made to it in any of their other letters) we have complied with our duty under Section 78.

 

In these circumstances we shall continue to collect the outstanding debt in accordance with our normal processes and reject any liability under the Protection From Harrassment act 1977.

 

Yours sincerely

Naomi Wort

 

 

by the way I am still getting regular telephone calls from their DCA Mercers despite advising them of the situation. I have also now reported them to all relevent authorities. What can i do now! i would love to sent a clever letter back to them in response however my letter writing skills are crap so if anyone has any advice/input then i would be most grateful. have a feeling this is going to be a long drawn out matter but bring it on monument

 

thanks for all your help so far i would have stopped otherwise

Mrs H

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am getting worrid now DCA still phoning me nearly every day and monument are still ignoring the situation and are insisting that under no circumstances will they stop persuing the debt. Have also realised that they are are also in section 85 default although I have not gone down this route yet as I didn't think I would have to. All I wanted initially was a copy of my agreement to see if i had signed up for ppi which i am convinced I have not and claim this money back from them if i hadn't. Am now at a loss as to what to do these people are unreal they are wrong and i am right how many times do i have to tell them, what can i do now? am i destined for a life being chased by monument/mercers.

Am still waiting for my statements although a bit of time left yet for them to comply (still, not holding my breath)

 

sorry to rant but so frustrated but still it is friday and a night of wine awaits:D

 

 

Thanks for listening(or reading) it really does help

Mrs H

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This is the letter i intend sending to monument in reply to the above. Could someone have a look at it for me as i said I am rubbish at letter writing so i will not feel insulted by any critisism however harsh. Thanks

 

 

 

Dear Ms Wort (yes this is really her name)

I refer to your letter dated 5th February 2007 the contents of which have been noted.

May I point out that I have no intention of entering into protracted correspondence with you. As I have stated in my previous letter you have not complied with my Consumer Credit Act Section 78 request the implications of which I outlined in my letter to you dated 16th January 2007.

In your letter of the 5th February 2007 you state that the Executed Agreement requested does not have to comply with every aspect of Section 61 of the Act. A mere photocopy of my signature does not comply with any aspect of Section 61. It is not my intention to quote the relevant legislation to you, as you should be fully aware of the same. It would however be very interesting to hear you explain to a judge how you believe that what you sent me i.e. a copy of my signature only – nothing else – complies with either section 78 or section 61 of the Act. I have not even gone down the route of what I believe may be your non-compliance of Section 85 of the Consumer Credit Act!

I note with interest that in your letter to me dated 5th February 2007 you confirm that you have sent me a copy of my “application form” apart from the fact that you have not an application form does not constitute a credit agreement it simply shows that I made an initial application.

In the circumstances I advise that I will no longer be making no payments to you as this “debt” is unenforceable and I believe that you have committed a criminal offence under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act. Non-compliance with the original request is a complete defence to any court claim issued. I also advise that on receipt of documentation requested under the Data Protection Act I will calculate the amount of interest and “payment break” payments made to you and will be requesting a refund of all monies paid in these respects. I am also considering my position with regards to the possible non-compliance under Section 85 of the Consumer Credit Act.

Finally you have continued to instruct Mercers to contact me. As this account is in dispute you are in breach of the OFTs guidelines on debt collection and I have therefore sent a report to them as well as to Trading Standards and the Information Commissionaire. I have also copied this letter to Mercers.

Please now confirm that any default notices or adverse comments your company has recorded on my credit file will be removed forthwith.

Yours sincerely

Mrs H

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Hello, i think this is a good letter, however in paragraph 5, you say you will no longer be making no payments, unfortunitly that's adouble negative and is saying you will make payments, I know what you mean but they may just trip you up on it.

Otherwise I like it, someone far more knowledgable will no doubt come along and give it a look over as well. Good luck.

Saxon

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Well letter being sent to Monument today by recorded delivery. Copy also being sent to DCA as they are continuing to contact me on a daily basis. Am still waiting for my S.A.R. request documents to come although they still have a week or so to comply. It will be interesting to see the amount of charges and interest as I have had this account since 99/2000. If I have to go down the Section 85 route then they have been in default since about 2002!!. Will keep thread updated as and when I receive any responses.

 

Thanks all

Mrs H

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well I have today had a (interesting) response to my letter as above. Think monument are now getting desperate and poss shot themselves in the foot.

 

Dear Lady H

 

We write further to your letter dated 13th March 2007.

 

We have already sent you a legible copy of the Monument Conditions reflecting the origional agreement that you entered into with monument.(from my postings you know what they have sent me and anyway in all their other letters they have repeated that they have sent me a copy of my agreement 1st error me thinks). This represents a true copy for the purposes of the Consumer Credit(Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983. It omits, as is permitted by the Regulations the signature box and any notice of cancellation rights DOH you have only sent me a photocopy of my signature - 2nd error!)

 

There is no requirement under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for us to certify and or sign this copy agreement and we have not done so (now above have they not just said that they have sent me Monuments conditions no mention of agreement)

We have previously sent you a copy of your signed application for your convenience ( so now they are saying that they have sent me 3 documents the agreement the application and their conditions me thinks not, none of their letters refers to any of these documents except the letter after my initial S78 request saying "enclose copy of your signed credit agreement") This is in addition to our obligations under the Comsumer Credit act and demonstrates your agreement with Monument.

 

As we have complied with our obligations (yer right) under the Consumer Credit Act I regret your decision to withold further payment to your account as we regard the debt enforceable and shall continue to pursue the outstanding debt in accordance with our standard recovery process.

 

Yours sincerely etc

 

 

 

well folks what do you make of that? I am lost for words are they really that stupid. Yesterday i received 2 further ansaphone messages from the DCA. Not sure what to do now. Should I slap a Section 78 and 85 default on them. Bit wary about this as I have read that enormous and great thread on this and although some people have served these defaults it seems a bit up in the air at the moment and I dont't think anyone has taken this any further as yet. If i ignore them and continue not to pay the DCA will carry on stalking me. I have considered making an application to the courts under CPR Rule 31.16 for disclosure of documents before proceedings are commenced but again I don't know if this has been tested yet. I know they wont be able to disclose so what them. Have any of you more experienced CAGers out there got any advice ideas or input. I am now at a loss as to how to proceed. Sorry this is so long but thanks for any help you can give me x

Mrs H

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Sorry to mither but has anyone got any thoughts ideas on this in particular the application under CPR 31.16. Has anyone tried this yet? To give you all a laugh I will try and scan what they have sent me to pass off as application/agreement/conditions HA HA

Mrs H

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All gone quiet at Monument. They have until 16th April to respond to my S.A.R. Just considering my next steps with regards to the non compliance of my CCA request. Am tempted to serve a default notice on them but I am not sure what the next step would be if they ignored this haven't really read anything in the site about anyone getting a response after serving one. Oh well will browse round the site to see if I can get some inspiration!

Mrs H

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yea ive folowed ur link to here. it sounds like the same they sent me.it was a copy of the reply card with no signature from them at all.no terms or conditions with it. well they havent sent me a SAR either and their 40 days are up tomorrow! god why are they being so difficult!?wonder if we're the only ones though,seems a bit of a coincidence!!!! bet they treat everyone like this!

i havent said anything about the reply card as yet was waiting to see if the charges would clear the account....tomorrow theyre being reported.do u know who to? is it trading standards or OFT? or someone else

additions direct-no CCA

marshall ward-no CCA

next-CCA turns up after they have committed offence,(30 days) S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) time!

monument -CCA not signed reported to TS for harrassment 1st letter sent TS are useless

associates visa-no CCA

think there might be a pattern here!?:lol:

GE Money- won

barclaycard-- N1 put into court

capital one - won

NatWest- won

 

never lose sight of your goal!

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I have reported them to Trading Standards but from what I have read on the site they don't seem to be that helpful with individual cases but if enough people report them who knows. Am now hoping they default in the DPA request then another one in the basket they really are unbelievable they have made so many errors with my case i wonder how they think they can get away with it oh well I am looking forward to the light at the end of the tunnel £££££££££££ will keep updating as and when anything develops. Am working on my next letter to them needs to be good !

Mrs H

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whats your next letter about? the signature thing? ive just emailed OFT asking what needs to be in the agreement for it to be properly executed,so ill let you know if i find out :D .i cant believe that they cash the cheques that u give them but dont give you the products! ie SAR

additions direct-no CCA

marshall ward-no CCA

next-CCA turns up after they have committed offence,(30 days) S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) time!

monument -CCA not signed reported to TS for harrassment 1st letter sent TS are useless

associates visa-no CCA

think there might be a pattern here!?:lol:

GE Money- won

barclaycard-- N1 put into court

capital one - won

NatWest- won

 

never lose sight of your goal!

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as you can see from my thread they have shot themselves in the foot by claiming that they have sent me firstly a true copy of my signed agreement then they said the document they sent me was their conditions and then my application form!!!! I have all of their letters so thay cant deny anything i am trying to get them to admt that they don't have the agreement. Am also considering issuing them with a Section 85 default am not to sure on this so will have to read around the site so I am absolutly sure about what to do. If they cant produce an agreement then IMO they have been in default since the beginning. I have had this card for over 7 years so a lot of ££££ even if I only claim back interest and PPI. I think that they know they don't have alet to stand on as i recently got a letter from them (after they defaulted and I stopped making payments) saying that if I paid a certain amount to the account they would make a goodwill gesture and make a payment equal to double what I had paid!! sounds fishy to me. If any of you letter writing geniuses/section 85 experts out there have any ideas! I am going to have a good read around the site and will post back when i decide what my next step will be

Mrs H

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It looks like I may be going down the same road as you, I've just had a letter staing that if I don't pay off the arrears, (all added when they were in default of a section 78), by April 9th, I'm sure that you are reding this Monument. They will issue a default notice if I don't pay them, by then. Oh dear Monument defamation under the Data Protection Act 1998 as well as trying to enforce an unexecuted agreement. What is the world coming to. Needless to say that I will be claiming compensation from the court and charging you if the 'phone calls start again £50 for each at home and £100 for each at work.

 

Mike (I bet you can work out who this is by now!)

If I've helped tip my scales

 

Blair Oliver & Scott, £2500 written off December 2006 Default removed January 2007:D

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/56001-mike220359-blair-oliver-scott.html

 

Monument, didn't sign the agreement

:D

 

Lloyds TSB didn't sign the agreement!

:D

 

Citicards, didn't sign the agreement

:D

 

RBS tut, tut!

:rolleyes:

 

Morgan Stanley, oh dear

:rolleyes:

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Mike what are you taking them to court for is it for repayment of interest? I am now convinced that they don't have a signed agreement and they are tying themselves in knots trying to get out of the situation. I have not paid them anything since december when they fell into default and although they have passed on the account to a DCA they have never threatened me with default or court(wish they would) Problem is that I don't know what to do now, can I claim back the interest (have had card for over 7 years SO ALSO IN SECTION 85 DEFAULT ) and PPI or do I just leave it and hope that they go away. I have written so many letters to them but they are determined to cling on by the skin of their teeth. If they are reading this then they prob know who I am as well. Listen carefully I AM NOT GOING AWAY!!!

Mrs H

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Has anyone made a court application for non-compliance of a section 78 request can one be done. As I have said above I did see somewere on this sight about a possible application under 31.16 of CPR but have not seen anything about it since and just wondered if anyone had made one what form to use and possible wordings. Thanks

Mrs H

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Well i have received a reply to my S.A.R not sure if it complies though. What they have sent me is simply an A4 size sheet with a list of about 15 charges typed on dating from Nov 2000 to Dec 2006 (coincidently this was the date when they fell into default under my CCA request!!) I am sure they have added more charges after this because i stopped paying. Could anyone tell me whether they have complied as i am not really sure what they should have sent me. They have not included a list of all transactions that is specifically asked for in the request letter.

Mrs H

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I'm having similar problems with these "people" as well.

Admittedly I have only recently started on the charges, PPI was going to be next.

I SAR'd them back in Jan 07, but only received a break down of the charges, nothing else.

I've stopped making payments until the issue is resolved and told them the same as the account is now in dispute.

Overall the charges account for half the balance and the PPI will probably be make up the rest.

 

They do like phoneing you constantly, I have sent them a "cease calls" letter and had to remind them of this once so far.

Every time they call I'm logging it, got about 12 so far.

This will certainly look good for them once I start in on the PPI farce.

Be VERY careful whose advice you listen too

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that is what they and other companies have sent me. cap one monument and GE.they just sent me a list of charges applied to the account and the dates they were applied.have you asked for a signed agreement from them?

additions direct-no CCA

marshall ward-no CCA

next-CCA turns up after they have committed offence,(30 days) S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) time!

monument -CCA not signed reported to TS for harrassment 1st letter sent TS are useless

associates visa-no CCA

think there might be a pattern here!?:lol:

GE Money- won

barclaycard-- N1 put into court

capital one - won

NatWest- won

 

never lose sight of your goal!

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Oh yes if you read the beginning of this thread you will see the problems that I have had with them. They haven't supplied me with one! They have been in default on this since December 06. They are not yet in default over my SAR they have about a week or so leftbut I don,t think they have sent me all the correct information that they need to. The other companies that I have written to have sent full transaction breakdowns including PPI and interest. This is the information i need as given that they can't supply me with a true copy of my origional agreement I want to claim back the PPI payments and as they are in default under S85 I want to consider the possibility of claiming back interest. They have put in their letter to contact them if the information they have supplied under SAR is not sufficient but I don't know what to do as am not sure if they have provided what they should have. Any ideas

Mrs H

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if i was you id write them telling them it wasnt sufficient and they have whatever many days they have left on the SAR to comply.

additions direct-no CCA

marshall ward-no CCA

next-CCA turns up after they have committed offence,(30 days) S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) time!

monument -CCA not signed reported to TS for harrassment 1st letter sent TS are useless

associates visa-no CCA

think there might be a pattern here!?:lol:

GE Money- won

barclaycard-- N1 put into court

capital one - won

NatWest- won

 

never lose sight of your goal!

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