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Council Tax benefit can create bullying in the home.


Sandy483
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Some of a letter highlighting my worries, sent to age concern who was anything but concerned and The Council tax office who never replied.

I am sure some one who has been in this position will see immidiately my concern I have tried to explain as best as possible.

 

And would like to know if anyone has had a problem when organising the payment of the single person occupier discount by another person in your home.

 

 

My Son had moved back home after a stay away, and my claim needed to be reviewed, the benefits office requested 6 weeks payslips from my son.

 

I requested the slips from my son and sent a letter with him to work.

We had much problems as his employer dragged their heals.

 

Eventually I was sent threats from the benefits office that I would lose all my Council tax Benefit and have to go to court for none payment of the years bill if the payslips where not received?

 

I was so shocked that there was a person living in my home ( related or not ) that affected my benefit but they were not receiving their own letters and could not be held responsible for this problem. When it effected my position so drasticaly.

 

This situation brought to me a nasty flaw in the system, that could be encouraging bullying with in the home to older people, or younger people who are bullied by their children.

 

The situations that stood out more than any other was as set out below.

 

 

  • My son is 23 and covered by a Date protection Act, and doe’s not have to let me have or see 6 wage slips. ( I had no power in this request from the benefits office)
  • I could not contact his work myself due to the Data Protection act.( I would have lost my benefit for something out of my control)
  • If my son choose not to send in the payslips I could of lost all benefits and be more Dependant on his income.( Making an opening for control from someone other than myself in my own home)
  • If My Council Tax benefit was taken from me, My son may have chosen to pay the Council tax, but threaten to stop and so blackmailing me with court to bully me into anything he wanted. (This is no less than terrifying for an old person who has seen people of their age going to prison regarding their taxes)
  • When a person stays in the home of a retired adult or with someone ill like myself. this does no less than hand them a barging tool
  • Many children frighten their parents, and most certainly would’t give a damn if they ended up in court.

I can not ignore the fear it has left in me, for others who are not in control in their own homes.

I have contacted Age concern and sadly they do not seem to be taking this matter seriously, therefore i pass it to you for consideration

 

I hope to hear from you soon.

 

Yours sincerely

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Personally I would tell your son the problems his presence could be causing you, tell him to pull his finger out and get his payslips or find somewhere else to live...job done.

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Hydra my son is a very caring person and also a very good friend, we have no problem in our home.

 

The emphasis is on the situation of the employer choosing to mess around for 8 weeks, and the owness of the responsibility being on a person who has no control of the situation.

 

Also the process of these benefits and how they lay open a gateway for abuse in the home.

 

Also as a point try telling a 6"5 man to remove him self from your premises when you are restricted in movement.

 

When your 80 try telling your unruly grandson that he has to leave while he screams in your face.

 

I feel You have over seen the main point in my post.

 

Please have another read and post again :)

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The emphasis is on the situation of the employer choosing to mess around for 8 weeks, and the owness of the responsibility being on a person who has no control of the situation.

 

So your son isn't responsible for keeping his pay cheques when he gets them?

 

Also the process of these benefits and how they lay open a gateway for abuse in the home..

 

Based on your excellent relationship with your familly, why would you think that? Maybe thats why Age unConcern weren't interested?

 

Also as a point try telling a 6"5 man to remove him self from your premises when you are restricted in movement.

 

When your 80 try telling your unruly grandson that he has to leave while he screams in your face..

 

Phone the police.

 

 

I feel You have over seen the main point in my post.

 

Please have another read and post again :)

 

Actually I think your being a touch paranoid, now you mention it. You'd better get used to the likes of Social Security demanding documents YOU don't feel they should have and arbitrarily removing YOUR money if they don't get them...

 

Most benefits are income related, your son, as a resident in your property with an INCOME, is required to produce his payslips so they can assess how much of your money they can stop, because he is bringing money in. Dosn't matter a hoot if he isn't giving you any of it...

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So your son isn't responsible for keeping his pay cheques when he gets them?

 

You feel the need to emphasis on my son when the issue I have raised is with the Status of how the documents are asked for by the Council Tax office, if it wasn't my son it would be a Lodger, Either way the home owner has no rights by the data protection act to obtain such pay slips.

 

 

Based on your excellent relationship with your family, why would you think that? Maybe thats why Age unconcern weren't interested?

 

Because i am a caring and observant person

 

Phone the police

 

Have you ever tried to evict a lodger, ( obviously not), I'm sure the council tax officials will appear to advice the police that the reason why you are making them homeless is because they will not provide you with their payslips, well you wouldn't get far with that reason.

 

Actually I think your being a touch paranoid, now you mention it. You'd better get used to the likes of Social Security demanding documents YOU don't feel they should have and arbitrarily removing YOUR money if they don't get them...

 

I have never stated i don't feel they should have them, somehow i think you have me confused with someone complaining my concerns of having to supply information to the social security, however i have none.

You ask for help you obtain help and you accept it on their terms end of.

 

Most benefits are income related, your son, as a resident in your property with an INCOME, is required to produce his payslips so they can assess how much of your money they can stop, because he is bringing money in. Doesn't matter a hoot if he isn't giving you any of it...

 

Please don't shout at me, As you have chosen to assume my views i shall assume to read yours, you are a Tax payer and dislike people on benefits there fore you have an Axe to grind.

 

Sadly you are grinding it in the wrong place and under the wrong thread you have replied with answers that are not at all relevant to my post, or my concerns even after reading it twice... may i suggest you give up.

 

Again i will reiterate my concerns, a person who has no rights to obtain information on another, can be threatened by the government for not obtaining them and the government Will apply no pressure on the person who's documents are needed nor their employer to produce them.

 

 

I think that rounds off our rather unpleasant chin wag don't you.

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You feel the need to emphasis on my son when the issue I have raised is with the Status of how the documents are asked for by the Council Tax office, if it wasn't my son it would be a Lodger, Either way the home owner has no rights by the data protection act to obtain such pay slips.

 

 

However, if the person was a lodger, you would be receiving rent, which you would be declaring, and that income would be stopped from your benefit. You have obviously told them he is your son and that is why they want his payslips. I've had lodgers, I know what I'm talking about.

 

Have you ever tried to evict a lodger, ( obviously not), I'm sure the council tax officials will appear to advice the police that the reason why you are making them homeless is because they will not provide you with their payslips, well you wouldn't get far with that reason.

 

Actually that wasn't my point. I never mentioned calling the police because somebody hadn't given you payslips. I responded to your comment about a grandson screaming threateningly in your face. Verbal abuse and intimidation is a much more common form of bullying and you are protected against it.

 

Please don't shout at me, As you have chosen to assume my views i shall assume to read yours, you are a Tax payer and dislike people on benefits there fore you have an Axe to grind.

 

Sadly you are grinding it in the wrong place and under the wrong thread you have replied with answers that are not at all relevant to my post, or my concerns even after reading it twice... may i suggest you give up.

 

Who's shouting? And you're wrong again...I should give up on the assumptions if I was you.

 

We are a low income familly, we receive tax credits and other benefits. I would apply for council tax relief but I refuse to let the council have 3 months of bank statements to prove my need.

 

And as for not being constructive? Well somebody needs to be Devil's Advocate, and you placed your comments for 'Discussion'. If you don't like what you hear by way of reply, you can't just tell them to go away....

 

Again i will reiterate my concerns, a person who has no rights to obtain information on another, can be threatened by the government for not obtaining them and the government Will apply no pressure on the person who's documents are needed nor their employer to produce them.

 

Since you are the claimant it is your responsibilty to obtain this information - you try to make your son's employer accountable for not producing copies of his payslips but it's not their responsibilty. They have supplied him with one, it is his responsibilty to retain these for a reasonable period.

 

 

The fact that I am taking the time to respond here should be taken to indicate that I DO CARE about these sort of issues, but I think you're way off base with your concerns.

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You feel the need to emphasis on my son when the issue I have raised is with the Status of how the documents are asked for by the Council Tax office, if it wasn't my son it would be a Lodger, Either way the home owner has no rights by the data protection act to obtain such pay slips.

 

As you are the one claiming the benefit you are responsible for demonstrating the household income whatever it's source. As it is your son - a relation - you have been asked to provide payslips. I have to agree with Hydra, it is your son's reponsibility to keep his payslips not his employer's to provide him with copies. If it were a lodger then you would be asked to show how much rent they are paying you, not their payslips, as they are not a family member. As it is you claiming the benefit, you are the one responsible for giving the DWP or whoever the correct paper work, hence why you have been sent the letters requesting information and not your son.

 

Hydra my son is a very caring person and also a very good friend, we have no problem in our home.

 

Also as a point try telling a 6"5 man to remove him self from your premises when you are restricted in movement.

 

You seem to be contradicting yourself somewhat. If you have a good relationship with your son then surely you can feel confident enough to ask him to leave if necessary without worrying about any repercussions?

 

Have you ever tried to evict a lodger, ( obviously not), I'm sure the council tax officials will appear to advice the police that the reason why you are making them homeless is because they will not provide you with their payslips, well you wouldn't get far with that reason.

 

If you have cause to get the police involved due to some form of abuse the council tax officials will have no say in the matter whatsoever. If you had been threatened or attacked or whatever it is a police matter full stop. It is your home and you have the final say on who stays and who goes. If you asked someone to leave and they refused and became threatening/abusive you can certainly get the police involved, it doesn't matter what your reason is for asking them to leave.

 

I have been through the benefits system, and its a pain in the bum providing the powers that be with every minute detail of your life and everyone in it, I know. But as so many people seem to be able to abuse the system, it is important that those of us who want to stay on the right side of the law comply with all the rules. So I would suggest that you and your son have a good chat about the situation and see what you can sort out soon so that you don't lose out on the benefits you're entitled to. As you have a good relationship maybe it would be worthwhile explaining your fears of being threatened/abused and see if you can work through it together so that you feel more safe and comfortable in your own home.:) (And maybe tell him to keep better records of payslips and the like;) ) Have you told the council that you are having problems obtaining the payslips from his employer? I'm sure they would appreciate being kept up to date with the situation. The 'threatening letters' are generally automated, so I wouldn't take it as a personal threat. If they knew what was going on they may give you some leeway, you never know.

~

:p I'm a lover, not a fighter... well, most of the time :razz: ~

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Hydra capitals are shouting please don't do it, its totaly unecessary.

 

Im not going to quote your post and type again, you are missing the point, no one has the right to obtain anothers Data, that is it.

 

You can not force another person into collecting another persons data if that data is held out of reach, by the person it belongs to or by the act itself.

 

I did place my post for discussion regarding the Data protection act issue and how a person in a home could be bullied by way of another person with holding such information along with the theats of the Council Tax office.

 

However you decided to reply with actions that took the direction of my post away from its main objective.

Which was to discuss how the Information act has restrictions stoping someone acting out a request they are made! to do by the government.

 

The issue i have raised was initiated by my experience with my family but my post was to convey concerns for situations across the board..

 

Your reply would have been much better recieved had you not emphasised on my personnel situation, how i concidered the actions of the Council Tax or how they would deduct my money. none of these relevant to the issue i have raised.

 

I have never complained as to why they want the documents? or as to how they would like to reduce my benefits?.

Both of which you highlighted in your reply but for what reasons i am not sure.

 

As i have stated my concerns cover a wide area and although i am in the position to pull my son in line, and can do so with out some direction from a post in CAG , many people are not.

 

You also felt i had some problem with allowing the Social security office to have documents, which i do not, and you do not need to tell me to get used to a situation as you did, i found that quiet offensive. As i have no problem with them having my documents and your comment (get used to it) assumed i did, as if i did not. Then why would i need to adjust ( get used to it)

 

What you have done Hydra is taken my personnel situation in which i found this flaw and assumed that is what needed changing.

 

My situation with the council Tax is now settled after much fuss, however while i went down the route, it showed to me that if my son was a bully and if i was living with him and in fear and please don't say this doesnt happen as its a growing daily concern.

 

Then I would have had to accepted to loose my benefits so placing me even more dependant on my son.

 

any clearer.?

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I think we all need to calm down here a bit! Big breaths everyone, Lucy and Hydra, Blue Lagoon is not saying she is being bullied by her son, she was simply raising an issue about data protection and how pensioners could possibly be abused!

Now can we please put away our soap boxes and shake hands and move on to other topics?

I QUESTION THEREFORE I AM!! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Unfortunately i'm not an expert in any given field legally and my advice and that of the Consumer Action Group and the Bank Action Group is given without prejudice and without liability so please if in any doubt whatsoever seek help from an insured qualified professional. Contents of my posts are purely my own personal opinions and not condoned or endorsed in any way, shape or form by CAG. Thank you! :p

 

 

I have been smoke-free for 4yrs

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So I would suggest that you and your son have a good chat about the situation and see what you can sort out soon so that you don't lose out on the benefits you're entitled to.

 

Thank you for the reply i dont have an issue with my son? It was 6 lost wage slips that brought this issue to head.

Hydra has made the issue with my son, over lay the issue that i am bringing to the table.

My personal relationship is not the issue its the situation of others relationships in vulnerable positions.

 

Hence the 6"5 person example, my son is 5"2 ? Although i could still remove him if he was 6"5 i would ask him to leave and he would but i am lucky to be in that position.

 

Its the issue of how does a person cope if they literally can not obtain the papers that the council office request.

 

I will give up now as the whole point of the post has been distorted by hydra bringing in things that had no relevance.

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Cillit,

 

No empty boxes to stand on and no ground axes here, I'm as calm as! If a little vexed...no point in putting things up for discussion if the OP is just going to bash anyone who doesn't agree IMO.

 

Anyway the whole discussion is getting somewhat circular with many pointy bits being missed entirely.

 

As they say in the Den - I'M OUT!

 

p.s. My capitals are for EMPHASIS not shouting..so much easier than reaching for bold or italics.

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OK, let's make it simple.

 

Person A is a pensioner and claiming benefit. Person B is a relative (but not spouse) living at the property.

 

The DWP demands proof of income of Person B, from Person A. Person A has no right whatsoever to this information - it is personal to Person B (who is not claiming and therefore not obliged to inform the DWP).

 

Blue Lagoon's point, as I read it, is that the situation above could lead to Person A being bullied by Person B as a condition of Person B releasing the information.

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Pat bless you, i dont think that is quite what blue meant.

I think they mean that person A could be being bullied i.e. elder abuse by person B to the extent that they would not provide the information requested therefore losing person A their benefits.

Remember not everyone has a happy family and some individuals turn on their parents when they become vulnerable, and live with them solely to have a cheap roof over their heads and to be in a prime position to bully and abuse.

I QUESTION THEREFORE I AM!! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Unfortunately i'm not an expert in any given field legally and my advice and that of the Consumer Action Group and the Bank Action Group is given without prejudice and without liability so please if in any doubt whatsoever seek help from an insured qualified professional. Contents of my posts are purely my own personal opinions and not condoned or endorsed in any way, shape or form by CAG. Thank you! :p

 

 

I have been smoke-free for 4yrs

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I think they mean that person A could be being bullied i.e. elder abuse by person B to the extent that they would not provide the information requested therefore losing person A their benefits.

 

I thought that this was what I had said when I made this statement

 

the situation above could lead to Person A being bullied by Person B as a condition of Person B releasing the information.

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear

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