EricTheRed v Abbey

[BankFodder]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_wall

[EricTheRed]

Yesterday I was told that my overdraft would not be extended and cancelled all my direct debits (I intend to set them back up again but be a bit more careful). I've just been to the cash machine and surprise surprise my overdraft has been increased. Chinese walls or ulterior motives?

[BankFodder]

Right hands and left hands and lead walls in between

[EricTheRed]

Abbey are due to take some charges (£255) on 11th May which means that I probably won't be able to afford the court fee of £120 to take them to court. Also it means I'll have to wait to take Capital One and MBNA to court - also £120 fee.

[Tinkerbelle]

Why haven't you opened another account elsewhere?

[EricTheRed]

I will be doing that some time this week

[dave]

Quicker the better really - that way, at least your wages are ALL your.

 

You get to them before they do.

 

Also, Abbey WILL close your account - they have been doing this systematically to people who have stood up for their legal rights and claimed their money back.

[jonni2bad]

Clearly some decision making for you then....

 

In the first instance, you could try to get them to withdraw the charges, pointing them to the fact you will be shortly taking legal action to recover existing charges etc etc.

 

A long shot, but the price of a phone call......

 

The biggest decision comes from deciding whether or not to leave money in your account that would otherwise be taken by these new charges. Leaving it in will mean the money is swallowed up, you have to wait longer to go to court and thus wait longer to get your money back.

 

Taking it out will mean that you are likely to exceed your overdraft limit (?) but you will be able to start proceedings, probably by paying cash directly to the court rather than online, but you should then see the matter resolved much quicker.

 

Clearly, it would be unwise of me to advise you to take the second route - I just wanted to clarify your potential options....

[dave]

I'm not advising you do this, but this is what my parter is doing now (for the second time - Abbey just don't learn - bizarrely she was misinformed as to when the cheque that she had gotten from Abbey in settlement would clear, which resulted in her getting more charges! Fools.), and indeed as I have in the past.

 

Change banks, get your wages paid into the new account - let Abbey worry about the fact that their charges take you over THEIR limit, then sue for recovery.

 

It doesn't matter if they add 2 million quid on in charges - they are NEVER going to get them, and the more they do add, the more interest they have to pay you when you get the money 'back'.

 

It certainly sorted my finances out, and my partners - we no longer had someone dipping into our cash to the tune of 800 quid per month for the pair of us.

 

Plus, when we did get all the money back we had the interest on it too - in some cases for my partner, Abbey had charged her 25 quid some 6 years ago, this meant that at 8% APR Abbey had to pay the 25 quid back PLUS an extra 18 quid in interest on that ONE charge!!!

[EricTheRed]

At the moment the situation is as follows. II they take the charges then I am likely to exceed the overdraft limit of £2.9k. My monthly income from myself and wife is over this amount every month.

 

I have my LBA and claim details. Abbey have supplied one years worth of statements only despite the DPA request and during the past 6 months have had £972 in charges. Over the past 6 years or so I don't think I have had anywhere near that amount per year so my claim is based on the £972 for this year and an estimate of £450 per year (which is not unreasonable) for the previous 5 years - total claim £3427 plus interest of £745.18. If it does go to court and they entered a defence then i would know the correct amount which will probably be less than my claim. If I close the account then they will chase me for repayment of the overdraft probably through the court system. I think that I should pay the court fee and open another account.

[dave]

True, but if the amount is in dispute, then they will not give information regarding the 'debt' to a credit reference agency.

 

If the amount of charges outweighs your overdraft, then the situation is very easy.

 

You write to them telling them that the od is an indirect result of their unlawful charges and if they were to write it off and send you a cheque for the extra, then you WILL NOT take legal action.

 

Tell them that if they do not do this within 14 days of receipt (and send it recorded) then you WILL start action.

 

Get your money paid into another account as quick as possible - this is what I would do - and then use some of that money to start proceedings against them when the 14 days is up.

 

You may find that they actually do as you ask - you have them over a barrel, so-to-speak. You already have your money back (or most of it at least), so you situation is different to some others on here.

 

They know that you now know the law regarding punitive vs. liquidated damages and that if they were to take you to court for repayment of the OD, that they would lose. IS that something that they would want to face? I don't think so -= simply because for them to do that would mean that the onus of proof is on them - they would have to prove that their charges - which were indirectly responsible for your OD - were a true reflection of their costs; which of course, they are not.

 

You are in a good position - in fact, if they have defaulted you at any time over the past 6 years because of this OD, then you would most likely be able to get them to remove that too, or else make a fair bit of money due to damages to your reputation through their defamation.

 

Also, when you put your claim in, I think BF had some plan about including damages for non-complience with the DPA.

 

You could have some fun with this one AND get your OD written off and a cheque for any extra.

[Dessie]

I have just opened a second account into which my salary will be paid this week for the first time. I will be sending my letter off to the Abbey on Tuesday.

 

If yoiu are worried about credit history when trying to open a new account then Nat West do a no cheque, no overdraft account with full online banking. Its called a Step Account.

[EricTheRed]

Moved this from another thread - an update regarding Abbey - as I'd put it in the wrong place in all the excitement

 

I sent my LBA to Abbey and lo and behold a letter from them has crossed in the post stating that they are unable to supply me with statements as microfiche is not covered by DPA. They had already sent me statements covering the previous 12 months. They have had enough time – 40 days - to respond so I will be waiting for the 14 days to expire on the LBA and submitting my claim for £982 for the past penalties for the past 12 months (all these have occurred since December) and a very very reasonable estimate of £450 per year for the previous 5 years – total £3427.00 plus £747.44 interest plus £120 court fees.

[EricTheRed]

I’ve just had a letter from Abbey stating that from 1st July they will not renew my overdraft. Currently my claim against them is for an estimated amount, £3682, £972 from the statements they have sent for this year, the rest is a very reasonable estimate for the statements they have not sent covering the past 6 year. I intend to issue the CC claim at the end of the month which will then include a £120 court fee and app £753 in interest.

 

I think if this goes to court that they will have to admit how much they have taken and this will then be probably be offset against the amount of overdraft.

 

My point is that if they are not renewing the overdraft could I report them to the Ombudsman as I believe that their actions are a retaliation for me sticking up for my legal rights. I am aware that this course of action could be taken if they close the account but they have not indicated that they want me to close my account.

[Yorkyclaims]

What reason have they given for not renewing the OD?

[EricTheRed]

it looks pretty much like a standard letter. I used my overdraft facility every month in full but there was always enough from my own and my wifes salaries going in to clear it. It's only gone belly up since January because of the fees that they have added on every month.

 

"Dear Mr ETR

 

Re: YOUR ABBEY ACCOUNT

 

No:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

You may already know that your over draft of £xxxx.xx expires on 1st July 2006.

 

I'm sorry to tell you, we are not able to renew your overdraft on this occasion.

 

As this overdraft will be taken away, please make sure that your account is within its new limit by the expiry date. If it is not you will be charged for spending whist overdrawn. Details of fee and charges can be found in the Tariff of charges. if you need another copy you can request one at any time in your local Abbey branch or take a look on http://www.abbey.com.

 

Don't forget that we're here to help you manage your money - if you'd like advice on any area of your finances, please let us know.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Cathy Robertson

Head of Banking Customer Service

 

-------------

 

 

Just tried to get them on the 08457654321 number but they "were busy helping other customers" So I've just wasted 3mins 18seconds at local rate.

Can any mod advise please?

[Dessie]

I have today received exactly the same letter.

 

I am going to reply to them that I have disputed the charges already levied against the account, so they should not make any further charges, or if they do then it will be subject to a further claim. If it all goes smoothly then I should have recieved payment by then anyway which will clear the outstanding debt.

[alanfromderby]

Please be aware that Abbey have cancelled a large number of o/d's in error. It may be worth querying the situation before going in with all guns blazing.

[Dessie]

Thanks Alan, I was warned about this a few months ago that my overdraft was going to be subject to review this year.

[Dessie]

And I just love their closing comment "dont forget we're here to help you masnage your money"

 

Yeah by taking it all away so that we cant spend it!!!!

[alanfromderby]

I gather that it has affected all those who were due to be reviewed in May.

[andrew1]

Abbey base their Overdraft limits on the amount each month you deposit. You have to have say £500 each month for six previous months going in and they will then grant you £500 od and the same upwards I guess. It's usually the fact that funds have not been going into an account that they refuse it, I don't think it's anything to do with these charges being requested back - I might be wrong but I've had this conversation numerous times with Abbey. Hope that helps.

[Seminole]

If you establish that they are in fact withdrawing your overdraft facility then you need to do two things:

 

1) Try to come to an arrangement to step down the overdraft over a period you can afford.

 

2) If you can't do this then open another account elsewhere. The Coop and Nationwide offer good basic bank accounts. You will need to arrange for your income and any standing orders/ direct debits to be transferrred to the new account.

 

If you don't do this then Abbey will grab any money paid in after 1 July and apply it to the o/d. They will also bounce and charge you for any payments you attempt to make. The icing on the cake is that they charge interest at the unauthorised o/d rate.

 

Sudden cancellation of o/ds is one of the nastiset actions of, in my opinion, a pretty nasty and incompetent bank.

[EricTheRed]

My bank (Abbey) only sent me 11 months statements and on my claim I am reasonably estimating the rest over 6 years. This is far in excess of my current overdraft facility with them. Has anybody taken any of the banks to court based on an estimate and what happened?

[EricTheRed]

Cathy Robertson from Abbey got one of her staff to call me this morning in respect of my letter about withdrawing my overdraft. They won't entertain a step down arrangement either. I have arranged a parachute account and this is effective from next pay day. Do you think they are aware that I am taking them to court? I never mentioned it in the letter to Cathy Robertson or are there Chinese walls in operation at Abbey?

 

My potential claim is now for £3,682.00 plus £780.96 plus costs and this is based on £982 for years 2005/6 and is based on statements supplied by Abbey and the rest for years 2000 to 2005 inc is based on a reasonable estimate of £450 per year for each year. Abbey have refused and failed to supply information on the account for these years citing the microgfiche argument. I suppose that they will have to disclose what the actual amount is when it gets to court. Has anybody been successful on an estimated claim?