HiFi equipment's gone wrong, bought from small but good retailer.

[Jumble Jumble]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this. Long story short:

 

I bought an expensive Yamaha AV receiver (just under £1300) in November. Paid for by debit card.

 

It's now developed a fault, probably in the power supply. I've talked to a Yamaha engineer, he had me unplug everything and try it again, it still happened, so the fault is definitely in the amp.

 

I appear to have, uh, "mislaid" the receipt, although I do have a record of the transaction on my bank statements and could provide that if needed. If the receipt became essential I'd find it if I turned the house over.

 

That's the situation so far. I've emailed the dealer, not mentioning the receipt yet - I'm not too worried about that part, as I can obviously prove that I bought it. All I really want to know is, how close to my ideal situation can I get?

 

My ideal situation is: I take the receiver to the shop, in a box, without the remote control or wires or anything. They give me a new one and I go home.

 

Slightly less ideal: I take the receiver in its box with all accessories and accoutrements present and correct. They give me a brand new one in box with everything and I go home.

 

The thing I fear that will actually happen: I take the receiver to the dealer in a box, with or without accessories, and they send it off for repair. I am then fobbed off with "nearly ready" for about six, nine, maybe twelve weeks.

 

So, anything I can do to avoid the last option?

 

 

Thanks

Richard

[rosiecotton]

They are entitled to offer you a repair in the first instance and you cannot demand a replacement if it is more costly for them to do.

 

However the repair should be done within "a reasonable time". This time is not defined in law, and depends on the product. Essential products (such as fridge freezers) would be more "urgent" than non-essential items, however this does not mean they can take a ridiculously long time.

 

Ask for what you want, but be prepared to allow a repair if they won't back down.

[Bookworm]

Also:

 

If as reputable as you say, they won't just swap power supplies, as they'll need to test the receiver to make sure the power supply failure didn't damage it. Sorry.

[blacksheep1979]

My ideal situation is: I take the receiver to the shop, in a box, without the remote control or wires or anything. They give me a new one and I go home.

 

Slightly less ideal: I take the receiver in its box with all accessories and accoutrements present and correct. They give me a brand new one in box with everything and I go home.

 

Can I ask why you think you should be able to keep the old remote etc and get a completely new package? And why would you want two remotes?

 

Yes the company are allowed to attempt a repair as everyone else has said but everything at this point is just guessing until you actually contact them. You may be surprised and they may just swap it for you.

[humbleman]

A product like Yahama, should last you for ages. If the goods are not of merchantable quality you can ask for a replacement at the least. Once you accept a repair you will lose the right for a replacement. If you request the trader nicely, I am sure he will oblige. They can send it back and get it credited without any trouble. If you call Yahama and be nice to them they will also look at this favourably.

[Jumble Jumble]

OK, that sounds good. I'll talk to Yamaha.

 

I don't want two remotes - I'd be happy for them to just give me a new unit, with no accessories, if I took them the current one. The reason I'd like to keep the one I've got is that the remote they give you is a universal one and it took me hours to program in the codes from all my other devices!

[rosiecotton]

A product like Yahama, should last you for ages. If the goods are not of merchantable quality you can ask for a replacement at the least. Once you accept a repair you will lose the right for a replacement. If you request the trader nicely, I am sure he will oblige. They can send it back and get it credited without any trouble. If you call Yahama and be nice to them they will also look at this favourably.

 

Please do bear in mind that you cannot legally demand a replacement though, if the trader is offering a repair and this is the most cost effective remedy.

 

As others have said though, there is no harm in asking as they may well oblige.

[Jumble Jumble]

Lovely, thanks everyone.

[crusty git]

In the worse case you have the right to reject the equipment as unfit at any time during the first 6 months, you can then use the refund to purchase a replacement

 

hope this helps

J

[blacksheep1979]

In the worse case you have the right to reject the equipment as unfit at any time during the first 6 months, you can then use the refund to purchase a replacement

 

hope this helps

J

 

nope you have to reject the goods within a reasonable period of time. However if the goods become faulty within the first six months the onus of proof regarding fault is on the retailer.

[rosiecotton]

Blacksheep is correct: the "six month rule" refers to burden of proof, i.e. within the first six months the burden of proof is reversed and it's down to the trader to prove that the item is not faulty rather than the consumer to prove that it is. A judge will assume it is faulty unless the trader can produce suitable evidence to the contrary.

 

This does not mean you can reject the item at any time within the first six months - you cannot, the time for this remains "a reasonable time", usually seen as being 2-3 weeks in most standard faulty goods cases as set by case law such as Bernstein v Pamson Motors.

[bazak1]

spot on blacksheep 1979. had the same problem with my daughters mobile phone ( take a look at the thread ).

because it developed a fault ONE day after the normal 28 days, they would only offer to repair it.

all you can do is try because if you dont ask you dont get.

[crusty git]

yes sorry Blacksheep I should have explained what I meant.

Thanks for the clarification, but my point still stands -as the goods developed a fault within 6 months Jumble has the right to reject them and get a refund

[rosiecotton]

yes sorry Blacksheep I should have explained what I meant.

Thanks for the clarification, but my point still stands -as the goods developed a fault within 6 months Jumble has the right to reject them and get a refund

 

No, he doesn't.

 

You can only reject goods for a full refund within "a reasonable time" and although this is not defined within the legislation, case law sets the precedent that this time is judged to be about 2-3 weeks in straightforward faulty goods cases.

 

An example often used in the courts is Bernstein v Pamson Motors.

 

After this 2-3 weeks has passed, the consumer is deemed to have legally accepted the goods. The trader is then entitled to offer a repair or replacement in the first instance.

[Jumble Jumble]

The unit has been at the Yamaha repair centre for 3 weeks now. I spoke to the retailer yesterday. He said they have put the unit on test, the fault has occurred once but they have not been able to reproduce it since. This is apparently not enough to properly diagnose the fault.

 

He then gave me the choice between them "leaving it on test", or having the unit sent back to me as is.

 

Obviously I find both these choices unacceptable. The thing clearly doesn't work - the fact that it has gone wrong once while in their possession is surely enough to prove that.

 

When you factor in the "burden of proof within six months" stuff from above, surely it's about time I got a new unit back? It's not my problem if they can't diagnose the fault.

 

Basically, what do I tell them to get them to sort me out? £1300 for a gap on the shelf isn't great value.

[rosiecotton]

I would suggest that as they have seen an example of the machine not working this is proof enough that there IS an intermittent fault, if they are not able to repair it they should either replace the product or rescind the contract and collect a partial refund (although as you have not had the goods very long you could certainly try arguing for a full refund).

 

They are certainly entitled to carry out a repair in the first instance, however this needs to be done within a reasonable time and if they cannot do this then they need to look at alternative remedies, such as those I have suggested above.

[Jumble Jumble]

Is three weeks a reasonable time?

[rosiecotton]

Only a judge can say what is reasonable, ultimately. However I will say that it often depends on the "necessity" of the product - for example, a fridge is more "necessary" than a stereo, so while three weeks may not be seen as acceptable for a fridge, it may be fine for a stereo.

[Jumble Jumble]

I posted the query on avforums and an engineer from Yamaha asked me to call him. I did so, and the next day I had a replacement unit. So I guess the moral of the story is, go over as many heads as you can!

[blacksheep1979]

nice result - although you may have messed up your sale of goods rights by not going through the retailer and now have different goods. Hopefully this won't matter and you enjoy your new settup.

[Jumble Jumble]

The replacement unit was provided by Yamaha to the retailer and then I picked it up from them - so that shouldn't be a problem.

[blacksheep1979]

ah even better - congrats