Joint claim with seperated wife and own individual claim v Abbey

[quietzap]

This is the LBA for my sole account, I think I advance the arguements re implied mutuality etc in the actual action, also the arguements re the other claim going back beyond 6 years?

 

Abbey

PO Box 1109

Bradford

BD1 5ZJ

Date 4/23/07

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: Re: Acc no zzzzzzzz Mr Quietzap

 

 

I am very disappointed that you have failed to respond to my letter of the 26 3 07 beyond your standard prevarication and a leaflet. Please convey my complaint to whomever decides what resources you employ to deal with these problems, which are of your making. You addressed neither my letter nor my claim at all.

 

I now understand that the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

The revised total of the charges, and interest debited as a result of the charges, stands at £990 at 21/03/07, on which I have calculated interest due (to 21/03/07) of £784.03, bringing my total owed me to £1,774.03. From that date interest accrues at a daily rate of £1.39.

I am enclosing a copy of the schedule of the charges which are calculated to 21 3 07 only. I have already sent you a copy of this in my original letter of the 26 3 07.

 

 

 

If you do not comply fully within 14 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount including interest as shown in the schedule plus my costs and without further notice.

 

Furthermore, I shall submit a Consumer Credit Act 1974 complaint to the OFT upon the basis that you have failed to comply with the OFT's direction of 5 April 2006 and are therefore not a 'fit and proper person' to hold a consumer credit licence under the 1974 Act. If you do not understand what this means then please seek advice from your legal department.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yours faithfully,

[quietzap]

Hi Anyone who reads this.

 

I have been relying heavily on Bill-K who has asked me to post the following:

 

"Hi (my name),

 

I'm afraid my CAG access has been effectively shut down. I am not able to post or PM there at all now. This appears to be because I have dared to speak up against admin Dave and BF, and to disagree with them.

 

So much for forum discussion.

So much for helping people.

 

If you wish to post this message, or something similar, then please do.

 

I am now registered here, where the admin are less arrogant, and still have some respect for their members.

 

If you can email me your LBA, I'll take a look, but my strong point is spreadies, so it's best to post it up for others to check.

 

Bestest,

 

Bill."

 

Without Bill my main thread would not have attracted any help so far as I can see, and I remain indebted to him.

 

I am afraid I have neither time nor the skills to look into what is the bone of contention, but I hope it will be noted that Bill has been invaluable to me.

 

I would be grateful for a little assist now.

 

Is the LBA (apart form the daily rate which should be £1.23 rather than £1.39) ok Please?

[TANZARELLI]

Hi quietzap,

 

Long time no speak. I think your LBA is fine, nothing stands out to me that shouldn't be threre or is missing. One thin I will point out is if you are going to file a complaint with the OFT, if I remember rightly you can do this online but you have to go through consumer direct which I think is the arm set up to deal with consumer complaints, they have a website see here: Consumer Direct - Contact us

 

Tanz

[chezt]

LBA looks ok except I'm not sure you make it clear enough what interest you are claiming (Sorry I can't remember if you are claiming CI or not?) ..... I never actually quoted a daily rate in my recent LBA's if that makes things easier for you ... I just stated ...

 

As previously advised, I calculate that you have taken £xx.xx plus £xx.xxwhich you have charged me in interest for the sums which you have taken. Total £xx.xx.

In addition to this amount, I also claim interest at an annual rate of xx.xx% compounded daily as set out in the attached schedule of charges. I believe this rate to be justified under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity: it is based on your standard rate for purchases that would be applied under the terms of the above-mentioned account. Therefore the total amount owed as of today’s date is £ xx.xx and I am enclosing an updated copy of the schedule of the charges which I am claiming. I already sent you a copy of this in my original letter of the DATE. Please be aware this is amount increasing daily.

 

Note though that I am claiming CI in my letter - If you are not then amend the wording accordingly if you want to use any of it

[chezt]

Whoops sorry QZ forgot to respond to your post about Bill ... I just want to point out that I was one of the folks Bill pm'd to ask if I could help you & keep an eye on your thread when it sseemed you were getting nowhere with your claim.

 

Just want to say that if Bill has been 'shut out' then it is very sad & also an incredible loss to the members who he helps so much

[TANZARELLI]

Whoops sorry QZ forgot to respond to your post about Bill ... I just want to point out that I was one of the folks Bill pm'd to ask if I could help you & keep an eye on your thread when it sseemed you were getting nowhere with your claim.

 

Just want to say that if Bill has been 'shut out' then it is very sad & also an incredible loss to the members who he helps so much

 

 

I'll second that chezt.

[chezt]

Thanks Tanz (and thanks to QZ for posting the message)

[quietzap]

Hi Tanz and Chez,

 

Really nice to hear from you both again and thank you.

 

The spreadsheets Bill kindly did for me show the interest rate of 28.7% which is shAbbey's unauthorised overdraft rate and so the most obvious contractual rate. I shall amend this LBA (which is for my Sole account, there will be one for the Joint Acc) to show that, Chez. I like your phrasing re reciprocity, I thought that phrase came in with the actual court case but I'll put it in the LBA too.

 

 

I think the complaint to the OFT only gets made if they don't cough up Tanz, is that wrong?

 

Chezt wrote:"Just want to say that if Bill has been 'shut out' then it is very sad & also an incredible loss to the members who he helps so much."

 

Tanzarrelli wrote:"I'll second that chezt."

 

Carried with acclamation I think, Bill is much missed at present, hope he is let back in soon.

[chezt]

The spreadsheets Bill kindly did for me show the interest rate of 28.7% which is shAbbey's unauthorised overdraft rate and so the most obvious contractual rate. I shall amend this LBA (which is for my Sole account, there will be one for the Joint Acc) to show that, Chez. I like your phrasing re reciprocity, I thought that phrase came in with the actual court case but I'll put it in the LBA too.

I personally think it's worth while making it exactly clear what you are claiming from the outset then there is no confusion or reason for the banks to say they didn't realise what you were claiming etc ..... Cover all bases eh!

 

 

Carried with acclamation I think, Bill is much missed at present, hope he is let back in soon.

Me too .... I hope his account is back up n running sooner rather than later ... :-|

[quietzap]

Mrs Quietzap phoned to say that she has had a written offer of half the original claim, without interest, on the joint account.

 

Since we made that original claim in Feb we put in a revised one going back a bit beyond 6 years and inc 28.7% interest making a total of over £4K rather than £600, so expect we shall accept pro tem, making that clear.

 

She is sending the letter to me, so I shall copy it here, unless I get a copy myself.

 

Mystifying how, if they have sent me a letter in the same post, mine takes longer to get to London, than hers does to get to a one horse village on "The Edge"! They are likely playing divide and rule, it will be interesting to see if they do try and seperate us for the purpose of knocking down the joint claim, if you know what I mean.

[TANZARELLI]

Good work quietzap. Keep at um mate.

 

Tanz

[chezt]

Great start!

[quietzap]

It is my 209th birthday - next one the big 210! - and I am toasting the further destruction of shAbbey in a malt and some draught Guinness, courtesy of an advance from Mrs Quietzap re the first shtage shAbbey payment!

 

There will be fewer guinnlesh daysh and more Islay malts to come when my victory is complete!

 

I wish, but then we shall see . . .

[chezt]

It is my 209th birthday - next one the big 210! - and I am toasting the further destruction of shAbbey in a malt and some draught Guinness, courtesy of an advance from Mrs Quietzap re the first shtage shAbbey payment!

 

There will be fewer guinnlesh daysh and more Islay malts to come when my victory is complete!

 

I wish, but then we shall see . . .

 

Well done mate - keep at 'em! (When u sober up of course!)

[quietzap]

Well Chezt, now am too sober, but have to actually send an LBA. I am claiming Contractual Interest, as per Bill's calculations, this claim doesn't go back as fara s 6 eyars as the account was opened 4 years ago appx.

 

Would welcome any informed view folks!

 

Thank you.

 

Mr Richard Harris

Head of Complaints

Abbey

PO Box 5129

Milton Keynes,

MK9 2YN

Date 8.5.07

 

Your Ref: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

Dear Mr Harris,

ACCOUNT NUMBER: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I am very disappointed that you have failed to respond to my letter of the 26 3 07 beyond your standard prevarication dated 25 4 07 and a leaflet. Please convey my complaint to whomever decides what resources you employ to deal with these problems, which are of your making. You addressed neither my letter nor my revised claim at all.

 

I now understand that the regime of 'fees' which you applied to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are and were unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.

 

I note that you have now closed my acount, albeit that I had not used it for some time, contrary to my wishes expressed at your local branch.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

The revised total of the charges, and interest debited as a result of the charges, stands at £xxx as at 21/03/07, on which I have calculated interest due (to 21/03/07) of £yyy bringing my total owed me to that date to £zzzz. From that date interest accrues at a daily rate of £n.nn based on your unauthorised overdraft rate of 28.7% which I apply on grounds of mutuality and reciprocity, based on your standard rate for unauthorised overdrawings that would be applied under the current terms of the above-mentioned account.

 

As I was rarely overdrawn for long (a day or two in many cases) I have decided not to press for return of interest you charged me as those sums were not very large.

 

The total amount owed as of today’s date is £xx.xx and I am enclosing an updated copy of the schedule of the charges which I am claiming. I already sent you a copy of this in my original letter of the 26.3.07. Please be aware this amount is increasing daily.

 

I am enclosing a copy of the schedule of the charges which are calculated to 21 3 07 only. I have already sent you a copy of this in my original letter of the 26 3 07.

 

If you do not comply fully within 14 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount including interest as shown in the schedule plus my costs and without further notice.

 

Furthermore, I shall submit a Consumer Credit Act 1974 complaint to the OFT upon the basis that you have failed to comply with the OFT's direction of 5 April 2006 and are therefore not a 'fit and proper person' to hold a consumer credit licence under the 1974 Act. If you do not understand what this means then please seek advice from your legal department.

 

Sincerely yours,

[quietzap]

Sent my LBA Sole Acc similar to the above recorded delivery today.

 

Still awaiting the copy of the letter Abbey sent re the £300 they paid on the Joint Acc which Mrs Quietzap sent on a while back. ie the letter.

 

I shall be repeating the preliminary letter for that acc as it seems it was not sent. Oh well I can do better this time.

[chezt]

Sent my LBA Sole Acc similar to the above recorded delivery today.

 

Still awaiting the copy of the letter Abbey sent re the £300 they paid on the Joint Acc which Mrs Quietzap sent on a while back. ie the letter.

 

I shall be repeating the preliminary letter for that acc as it seems it was not sent. Oh well I can do better this time.

 

I'm a little confused - why did they refund you some charges if you didn't send a prelim?

[quietzap]

In the case of the joint Acc the first prelim was sent when I thought we couldn't claim back beyond 6 years from when the claim was made.

 

I am still awaiting their letter which they sent to my wife who still operates that account, now solely in her own name.

 

They seem to have paid half of the charges we claimed in that prelim.

 

Mrs Quietzap possibly the second worst admininstrator in the UK. Possibly the worst, fortunately she is far enough off for the arguement to be fairly ineffectual.

[quietzap]

Nice to hear from you Chezt.

[chezt]

It's quite common for Abbey to 'drip feed' refunds to you along the way ... sorta like the banker upping the offers on deal or no deal!

 

I'm in the same position with my abbey c/card at the mo!

[TANZARELLI]

Hi quietzap,

 

Just checking in mate, hope all is well with the claim.

 

Tanz

[quietzap]

I now have the letter they sent (at last! Mrs Quietzap doesn't know about postcodes it seems, nor my street name!!! How the Royal mail managed is a mystery).

 

They can give us (and me) the money back as soon as they like.

 

I gather they say they only refund to customers whose accounts are still open, they closed mine contrary to my verbal request, albeit I hadn't used it for ages.

 

It looks entirely standard, except that it doesn't refer to the period we are claiming for, just to Mrs Quietzap's acc, whereas it was a joint acc at the time of the charges under consideration.

 

Well I have to update the revised prelim which didn't get sent and get ready to put my sole claim into court as per my LBA on my sole acc.

[quietzap]

Thanks Tanz, I am mostly worried about this Lloyds success in Birmingham.

 

Doubt one bad decision which hopefully will be appealed successfully makes a disaster as the Indepnedant suggests.

[TANZARELLI]

Thanks Tanz, I am mostly worried about this Lloyds success in Birmingham.

 

Doubt one bad decision which hopefully will be appealed successfully makes a disaster as the Indepnedant suggests.

 

See here: GMTV - Latest clips from GMTV

 

Bank charges row bit

[quietzap]

Thanks Tanz, will try it again later, it wasn't working just now.

 

Also http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/90660-lloyds-victory-view-judgement.html makes clear that we need to include relevant T & C details in our court bundles. For the periods we are claiming for.

 

Unfunny how media which advertise banks made a lot of what is a nothing ruling- cos it is a result of an error by the claimant, and the Judge might have gone the other way anyway if the claimant had not made another error in his verbal answers as I understand it.

 

Not sure I saw it on the BBC, which I ordinarilly use for news; it featured in newspapers inc "The Metro" - London's freesheet - bigtime!

 

LOTS of people will have been put off claiming, or given up in consequence.