Joint claim with seperated wife and own individual claim v Abbey

[quietzap]

Seems like forever since I started on all this.

 

Thanks to Breadline and Batty Billy for getting me this far.

 

The joint claim I have statements going back beyond 6 years, some of the delay is down to thebank, but it looks like Bankfodder reckons we can claim beyond the 6 years as they have definately mislead/misinformed us re our rights.

 

The Abbey only reversed some of the charges at that time, telling us they had every right to take our money away.

 

Has anyone had success in claiming beyond 6 years from the date of sending their first request for return of charges etc?

 

I am sure I can phrase an extra part to the standard letter re this, referring to the law Bankfodder quotes.

 

My wife now solely operates what was the joint account at that time, and doesn't want to claim for the time we have been apart, well not yet anyway. I have told her about the A & L victimisation case (Feb '07) but that is how things stand for her. If and when we get money back she may decide to go for the b****s in her own name alone too.

 

So: Has anyone had success in claiming beyond 6 years from the date of sending their first request for return of charges etc? Please.

[quietzap]

I have found the big thread re the 6 year rule, thanks.

This weekend I have to send the second letters on both the joint and my individual accounts.

I still cannot get the Neo Ofifice spreadsheet to work with Mac OSX. When I try to download it again it isn't producing anything other than code.

[bill-k]

QZ - I think you need to make sure your figures are correct before you start your claim. If you have not got these spot on, then your claim may not be taken seriously if you have to alter it later on. I would suggest you postpone starting your claim until you have had some more help with this.

 

I will PM you about your spreadsheet(s).

 

Bong has just won on this thread, which you might find encouraging:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/33005-bong-hsbc-contractual-interest.html

 

Bill.

[Guest bong]

hi there, just wanted to add that Glenn UK has succeeded with Abbey getting charges back to either '97 or '99, can't remember which. I'm sure he won't mind you PMing him to discuss why they caved over the limitation defence.

[gizmo111]

Hi qz,

 

I had a claim on a joint account - which was converted into a sole account and I won - good luck - any q's just ask.

[quietzap]

Thanks bong, I shall contact him. I intend to start the claim for the time prior to 6 years back today, but the details I have do not go as far back as I would like, I only asked for 6 year's worth when I made my second requests for statements/details.

 

Thank you too gizmo111 I shall have few questions for you too.

 

I am grateful, I am pretty threatened economically, landlord problems, little work, still no benefits.

 

The banks and duff anti-depressants have played their roles in what I have to get myself out of.

[quietzap]

By the way my wife (ex to be) was a National provincial bank clerk in the '60s & '70s and she examined the joint statements and then checked what I claimed. I did study Economics/Econometrics at college a long, long time ago. I think most of my questions are going to be about how to present the claims, and what info to send.

 

Thanks.

[sarahpp]

Just subscribing to offer support qz- you have the best people helping you already I see but, if I can offer any assistance later on, I will.

 

Best Wishes

 

Sarah

[chezt]

Just subscribing to offer support qz- you have the best people helping you already I see but, if I can offer any assistance later on, I will.

 

Me too!

[TANZARELLI]

Make that another one who will offer support if I can too.

 

I am currently hitting Barclays for 96-99 charges and a 2007 one as well just to keep some recent ones in there as well.

 

Tanz

[quietzap]

Thank you all very much, it is kind of you to support like this and truly appreciated. X, Hugs, handshakes as appropiate!

 

I think I should make clear that on both Abbey Claims there is very little interest on the accounts, the often small excess overdrafts were usually reversed after a day or two. I think the max interest was £7 odd, but we did end up taking out personal loans sometimes, and once an awful Saga Visa Card.

 

I am currently using an online compound interest gizmo ( COMPOUND INTEREST CALCULATOR ) to work out the annual compound on the actual charges based on the 28.7% mentioned on Glenn's thread. Makes me feel better, but I won't send the results until I have completely read that thread, which looks key for me.

 

My Abbey Claim is for £960 and our joint claim within the 6 year period, but before my wife took over the joint account alone, £685.50.

 

My estranged wife and I are both signing the correspondence to Abbey, she is scared though that they will close her account, seems unlikely as she earns quite a lot. Have suggested a parachute acc (First Direct?) but no dice.

 

As the banks played a role in our split up imho I suppose it is good we are getting even with them together, wish she would taek action on her own account, as I know she has had problems on her sole Acc too.

[TANZARELLI]

quietzap,

 

You have got some good CAGers subscribed to your thread, so you will be in good hands. Just post any questions you have and someone will help you out.

 

Tanz

[bill-k]

OK., QZ - If I've got this right, we are talking about two accounts you're wanting to claim on. The first one is your own Abbey account, which is just in your own name, and the other is your joint account.

 

Yes, there is a possibility that the bank may want to close your joint account, although this is against the Banking Code, I believe, but it is still a risk. I would suggest that you concentrate on claiming from your own Abbey account first, and put the joint account on the back burner for now.

 

Once you've got your Abbey account settled, then your wife ( whom I realise you are separated from ) may then agree to going ahead with the claim on your joint account. Meanwhile - and at the risk of seeming a little indelicate - you could try and convince her that she may be needing her own separate account at some point in the future, so to open a parachute account now might seem like a good idea.

 

That's just my opinion on things as I see them, though, and I would prefer you to hear the opinion of others before you do anything more.

 

Bill.

[TANZARELLI]

Once you've got your Abbey account settled, then your wife ( whom I realise you are separated from ) may then agree to going ahead with the claim on your joint account. Meanwhile - and at the risk of seeming a little indelicate - you could try and convince her that she may be needing her own separate account at some point in the future, so to open a parachute account now might seem like a good idea.

 

Alternatively you could get her to have a look at some of the Litigation Concluded in here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/litigation/

 

She may find it a bit of an eye opener.

[TANZARELLI]

I think what your suggesting Bill is a good idea too.

[gizmo111]

My wife now solely operates what was the joint account at that time, and doesn't want to claim for the time we have been apart, well not yet anyway. I have told her about the A & L victimisation case (Feb '07) but that is how things stand for her. If and when we get money back she may decide to go for the b****s in her own name alone too.

 

The wife has sole control of the joint account.

[bill-k]

The wife has sole control of the joint account.

Does she ? Have you agreed to this formally ?

 

Or have you just informally handed control to her ?

[TANZARELLI]

Does she ? Have you agreed to this formally ?

 

Or have you just informally handed control to her ?

 

Prob to avoid the ear bashings. lol

[quietzap]

I gave her control of the joint account which is operated in her name only and has been for nearly 4 years. The period from6 years ago to then is the period we are intending to claim for on that one. She needs the money too (holidays and giving money to our grown up kids are where most of it goes still) and I think it makes sense to inclde the period for which I have details back over a bit more than 6 years (she sat on the statements Abbey sent for afew months and there is another £300 or so which comes into the reckoning if we go back that far)

 

Mine is simpler, cos it is an account I have operated for nearly 4 years (stopped nearly rtwo ago, but they kept it open despite my requet to close it - changed my mind now though) and no need to consult.

 

Thanks Bill, Gizmo, Tanzararelli.

[TANZARELLI]

No probs

[quietzap]

Well now guys and gals, I have done my sums. Based on annual compound interest of 28.7% the various illegal charges on the Joint Account are Total £948.50 Inc Interest to 2/4/07 £2519.84; my Sole Acc Total £960 Inc Interest to 2/4/07 £1686.30.

I issued a preliminary request for both accounts about 2 weeks ago (My wife delayed the Joint one, busy at work and slow on these things) and the Sole Acc one only referred directly to the few transactions I had details of. I had read on the site that I could proceed to a LBA from this? Any views?

In neither case did I say I would claim Contractual Interest, though I referred to it as a possibility.

[bill-k]

OK, I think I finally got it, now, QZ !!!

 

Your wife's account is now entirely in her name, but was a joint account, and she is willing to allow you to claim on it for the period that you both shared it ( ie., up until when she became sole user) - is that right ?

 

OK., next thing is that you have sent a prelim claim letter to each of these two accounts, but you did not actually claim contractual interest, it appears.

 

I think if you are going to claim CI, then you need to do two things before you go any further.

 

1. Make sure that your figures are correct, and that includes your interest. If your figures are wrong, and you don't correct them now, you run the risk of losing the interest altogether. You should be able to download a copy of OpenOffice for MAC computers, I think. If you can do that, then I should then be able to help you with your spreadsheets.

 

2. Once you have got your figures sorted out for sure, then I think you should send a further prelim letter claiming CI. I would advise using one from the templates library - or one of the excellent examples posted elsewhere on the forum - adapted to suit your own claim. If you post it here, we will help you make sure it is correct.

 

Bill.

[quietzap]

I have downloaded the Open Office (Neo Office) spreadsheetsfor Macs, it doesn't work. I tried again the other day and now all I got was to see a lot of code ie computer language instructions - the writing of the program.

 

My plan is and has been to claim with my wife as co-claimants on the Joint Acc from 2000- 2003 when it became her Sole Account.

I shall send you the figures for each claim, and also a more explanatory sheet for each in a format I expect you will be able to read.

I adapted the prelim letter for each claim and I can do that again. Mostly on the joint one it was a case of changing the "I"s to "we"s. I'll put up here the repeats with the CI included.

On Glenn's thread it sems to me he hedged his bets by putting CI at 28.7% annual compound and also 8% annual compound as an alternative; or did this alternative only arise at the Court stage.

I expect to go to court, kismet Billy!

[bill-k]

OK., mate. I should be able to lift the figures if you send them as text files, and put them in a spready. I can then hopefully copy the spready to a word document and send it back to you like that.

 

I don't suggest that you put any alternative rates of interest in your prelim or LBA. Only use those for your court claim, as the banks often tend to think you are offering THEM the choice, and you're not !!

 

I think you are right to think along the lines of expecting to go to court. If you do that, then you will make a special effort to get everything right, whereas you might skip a few things otherwise.

[quietzap]

This is the letter I sent on account of my preliminary claim on my Sole Account:

 

My Address.

 

Abbey

PO Box 1109

Bradford

BD1 5ZJ

 

Date 3/19/07

 

First Request for repayment of most recent charges

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: zzzzzzzz

My request

 

In the first instance I am writing to ask you to refund to me the charges which you have levied from my account on (Date) 2005, viz 7 x £30, (ano Date) 2005 6 x £20 and (ano Date) 2005 £20 making a total of £350 for these three months alone.

 

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations. If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.

 

Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

 

 

 

Your responsibilities

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

 

Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

 

What I require

 

I calculate that you have taken £350 in those three months alone. Kindly return my money forthwith.

 

My targets to resolve this matter

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment in respect of these three months’ charges.

 

Yours faithfully,

(His mark)

 

 

I sent this recorded delivery to Abbey, in the same envelope as another letter asking for the statements again, and enclosing the £10 fee which they banked. They have sent statements for the period I requested them for.

 

 

I now have a mobile phone contract! (300 texts & 300 minutes, both any networks, £10/cal month! Virgin)

 

And the payphone over the road works, so I can phone them cheaply to check things out.