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Section 21 What are our options


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N4B: completely right on point 3 :) I have since been corrected - I was reading too much into certain intricacies(god I cant spell!!) on Section 20 notices and ASTs to realise that the bit I was reading is no longer valid!!!!

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

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Damn

 

I think I will need to have a rethink on all of this, my biggest concern would be if and when things get unpleasant the agency wont provide me with a good reference - I have never missed a payment, and I should be able to pay a full six month contract up front in two months time but most other agencies are going to tell me to take a jump if the reference then says they had started court action (if it gets that far of course).

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2 things:

 

1) I would just try and bluff them, inform them the notice is invalid and why. With a bit of luck, they will serve another notice on you anyway. Unless they write "without prejudice" on this second notice, it will invalidate the first.

 

2) I would not put too much on references. In my experience, not many landlords, even decent landlords, pay a massive amount of attention to them. For two reasons: because people writing them cannot put anything particularly bad down anyway, and because decent landlords know how many bad landlords there are!!

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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Your right and at the end of the day there isnt alot I can do about it, so will stick to the original plan, after all they dont seem to operate to the letter of the law anyway so chances are (hopefully) they wont realise it is valid but the two months notice start from the next rental date etc.

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Even if they pursued with that notice, I think you could successfully argue for it to be invalidated, due to the ambiguity they have with the dates, combined with the lack of instructions on how notice would be served, as you have never been given a copy of the the AST - this second point is more important, should it get to this point, than you might think.

 

I would probably draft a letter to them, stating that the notice served is invalid, due to the a) lack of 2 months full notice, which is required and b) the lack of instruction on how a notice would be served, due to the lack of an AST. Say that due to these errors, any attempt to evict using the existing notice will fail. Request a new 2 month notice, and also a copy of your AST (free of course!). ENSURE this is in writing. If they refuse to provide you with a copy of your AST, you then have it in writing that they will not give you a copy without you paying, which will look horrendously upon them in court.

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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Tandy32,just to add:

 

1.Send all letters by recorded delivery and keep the stub in a safe place.

 

2.Regarding the reference,if this concerns you be diplomatic rather than confrontational.The fact that the tenancy agreement has not been given to

you really works to your advantage in your particular scenario.Talk of Dumb & Dumbest!lol!

 

3. I would also suggest that you could show proof of your rent payments to any new potential landlord/agent i.e.statements/receipts etc and these should speak for themselves and thus no reference would be needed.

 

Anyway,I hope you find this information/suggestions useful.

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Hi guys

 

The agency got back to me on Thursday six days after my original request and with me chasing almost every day to say the landlord said we had to be out by Monday, so I sent the letter by next day recorded delivery.

 

I just said in it that the section 21 notice was invalid because the dates didnt give me a minimum of two months notice so we wouldnt be moving out on the Monday, and I invited them to send me another section 21 notice giving us two months notice.

 

They obviously received it Friday as they telephoned me at 2pm to say it was valid and that they had been in contact with the landlord that morning about it and wanted to arrange a meeting between us, the landlord and the letting agency to discuss the situation - have to say I am annoyed that it took them 6 days to get an answer to us extending the notice, but when we find they have made a mistake and we dont have to leave on monday they can discuss it with the landlord within a couple of hours.

 

I said I couldnt meet up on Monday so they said they would speak to the landlord and come back to me to arrange a day and time we could all get together, after having to chase the agent every day they called again when I was out Friday afternoon and again left two messages on Saturday when I was out asking me to call them back, I called back Saturday afternoon and the agent wasnt there so I left a message saying I would call them back on Tuesday as I was out on Monday.

 

What should I do, should I go to a meeting with them all or would that be an own goal, any advice as always would be great??

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My personal advice is to go to the meeting. You lose nothing by doing this, as they still have to give you a full 2 months notice. However, you may come to an amicable agreement, rather than saying "nah nah your notice is not valid". You know what I mean?

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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Hello people i'm pleading for urgent help again!

 

I phoned the agency today but the agent wasnt there so left a message saying we could meet at 2pm Tuesday or anytime Thursday.

 

The agency has since hand delivered a letter while I was out saying:

 

Following your letter dated 8th February 2007 and our conversation on Friday I have spoken to the landlady of the above property.

 

As per our conversation, I have spoken to the landlady and she would like to meet with you and myself at the property at 6.30pm Tuesday 13th February 2007.

 

With regards to the £**** that you have sent directly to our account, this will be accepted as means profit rather then rent.

 

I trust that the above time is acceptable for you.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Now two questions.

1. what the hell do they mean by means profit, do they mean its not rent but they are keeping it as profit, can they even do that if it does mean that?

2. Is it a good idea to meet here or would it be better to say that we want to meet at the agents office?

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Mesne profits mean something along the lines of "payment received for services provided under duress". I wouldnt worry about it. They have stated this, as most landlords would do, to cover their backs. Basically, by accepting "rent" after a notice has expired, it COULD be argued(although I have yet to see a case where it has been successfully argued) that by accepting rent they have reestablished the tenancy. By accepting only mesne profits, they are saying "we do not accept that you have a right to remain in the property, and we do not accept there is a tenancy, but we will accept rent off you to mitigate our financial losses". It is all legal speak, and nothing that should concern you.

 

With regards the meeting, I would certainly not be having it at the property, in case they try to forcibly remove you. Meet at the office.

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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MrShed you are a star of the very highest order, I just called them and said we will meet them at there office, they said no problem so will see what they say, if they start screaming and making threats I will just leave but hopefully they will be up for coming to a compremise over it all.

 

P.s. many apologise for my terrible spelling.

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You are welcome as ever Tandy. Just in case you forget, when you do meet with them dont forget about the point about having never received a copy of the AST!! To be honest they will probably be ok, I just feel it is a tad risky having the meeting at your home.

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

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I have kept that little nugget back at the moment, was going to write to them to request it in a few days when things had died down a little, if I tell them about could they not just say they had gave me a copy and give me one there and then.

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Hi Tandy32,

I think that the advice you have been given here is sound but can I just add something.

Reading between the lines you sound like a very pleasant person and, dare I say it, too trusting. These people are business people and may well have been stung in the past. So they are not going to do you any favours. Or particularly care about your situation. Cover yourself at every step. No benefits of the doubt. No hope we'll have an amicable solution. The world, unforuntely isn't like that.

Be careful.

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