s.85 gang vMBNA

[mbnachickens]

I'm not sure how/if S85 relates to a loan as we have been looking at this from the credit card angle. I'll have a look at the act & see what I can find out - of course one of my learned colleagues may be able to step in and be able to answer you. Get back to you on it. You may want to look at the thread Consumer Credit Agreements - very long and a bit complicated, but if you have the time to read through it, it may clarify some thngs for you.

Thanks

[Cornucopia]

Re: PHIL and ALISON V MBNA

 

See post #65

 

........any comments gang?

 

Ladybird, post 65? Am I being a bit daft, I thought we were only in the 20's still with posts?

[Cornucopia]

Ladybird, post 65? Am I being a bit daft, I thought we were only in the 20's still with posts?

 

Doh! I frighten myself sometimes, really! I missed the Phil & Alison bit, will go have a look!

[ladybird17]

That's OK Corn - it's such a nice feeling when someone else does something daft - makes me less alone with my own stupidity!

[progenic7]

Hi all,

 

forgive my ignorance in the area of s85, as i understand it everytime a new card is issued the lender has to supply a copy of the agreement correct ?

ok well MBNA and RBS and Barclaycard have all done this to me, however mbna and rbs are paid off and closed now. So in real terms what does this mean under the law. ie what would actually happen to them for this breach, nothing i expect as usual ?

[ladybird17]

ah progenic...you are a cynic...! If they have failed to supply copy of correctly executed at time of isue of new/replacement card then they are in default. Debt becomes on enforceable. There's loads more to it - of course - but that's the gist. I just have to go & watch Eastenders so will come back later!

[progenic7]

cynic me ? lol

 

i was actually referring to my case where the account is now closed i expect its too late to actually pin anything on them yeah ?

 

though i can understand the relevence when the account is still live.

[The Phantom]

Sorry to jump in, I am interested to also serve A&L credit card (MBNA) with s85 notice.

Who would I sent it to: addressed to A&L who I took the card out with many moons ago or MBNA who officially never told me they are now running the show at Chester Business Park ? All the stuff that is still sent to me is on A&L paperwork with a tiny note at the bottom that it is administrated by MBNA

I had a look at thes85 template from the terminator and that is addressed to MBNA hmmmm

What date do I take for the default to start ? The first replacement card they sent ? That would then be A&L or MBNA ...ah, it's getting late - I can't think

Would appreciate it if anybody can post a reply and point me in the right direction

 

Many THanks:)

[ladybird17]

S.85 crops up when the card provider issues you with a new (i.e. subsequent to the first) card. With this they must send you a copy of the original agreement, correctly executed. If after 12 days + 1 month, they fail to do so, then they are in default. Some of us have just written and said - "failed to comply so you are in automatic default" some have actually issued a default notice. Because they are in default, the debt becomes unenforceable. Terminator I think, has issued them with a default notice. Please note this route hasn't been tested to a conclusion yet. That's as simple as I can make it - obviously there can be some quite complicated issues amongst all this. The default starts from the date you receive your new card. Good luck!

[thecornflake]

The theory also goes that they can't charge interest on an unenforceable debt, so you could claim back all the interest you paid since the first replacement card was issued (if it didn't have a copy of the agreement).

 

This is as yet untested, and hasn't got anywhere near a court yet so I would advise anyone readin ghtis to read the relevant threads fully. I'm only up to page 35 of I think 117 of the main thread so I'm probably way out of date on this.

[progenic7]

clears my throat....ahhhh hmmmmm

 

ladybird im still laughing at a post of yours a read yesterday about banks replying late, where you put later that day, later that year or later than you expected

 

so what could or would happen in the case of a closed account anything ?

 

also does the s85 only apply to credit cards or does it apply to banks aswell ?

[m55dlc]

clears my throat....ahhhh hmmmmm

 

ladybird im still laughing at a post of yours a read yesterday about banks replying late, where you put later that day, later that year or later than you expected

 

so what could or would happen in the case of a closed account anything ?

 

also does the s85 only apply to credit cards or does it apply to banks aswell ?

 

s85 is credit token (aka Credit Cards) and only comes into force when there is a replacement credit card sent. As far as closed accounts are concerned, lets get a result or two under the CAG belt before we open any closed accounts. Don't worry too much, results are brewing on various fronts

[progenic7]

ok i wait with baited breath ;-)

[ladybird17]

keep subscribing to this thread progenic and all, hopefully, will eventually be revealed. And when it is, I'm confident my learned friend m55 will pen a little tune for us to rap along with.

[The Phantom]

S.

85 crops up when the card provider issues you with a new (i.e. subsequent to the first) card. With this they must send you a copy of the original agreement, correctly executed. If after 12 days + 1 month, they fail to do so, then they are in default. Some of us have just written and said - "failed to comply so you are in automatic default" some have actually issued a default notice. Because they are in default, the debt becomes unenforceable. Terminator I think, has issued them with a default notice. Please note this route hasn't been tested to a conclusion yet. That's as simple as I can make it - obviously there can be some quite complicated issues amongst all this. The default starts from the date you receive your new card. Good luck!

Since I opened my Credit Card account with A&L I had a few new cards sent through, but never with a new agreement or anything. Just the cards and a leaflet with their terms & conditions

So I should send the s85 addressed to A&L I think because they signed me up initially

How cunning. I may try that. By the looks of it they had a few of these lately.

[ladybird17]

They don't need to send you a NEW agreement with every issue of a new card, but what they do need to send is a TRUE COPY of the ORIGINAL EXECUTED AGREEMENT.

 

Is your A & L card issued by MBNA? If it is, then I would go straight to MBNA -but might be worth reading up on a few threads - Consumer Credit Agreements - MBNA nightmare etc.

[The Phantom]

Well, they didn't send anything apart form the card, stuck on a letter (A&L paper) and a booklet with their Terms and conditions. I had a few cards since I took the agreement out many years ago, but never had a copy of the original agreement sent with it so much is for sure. Now I need to remember when they first replaced the initial card. Goodness. But it looks like fun to try this one. Especially as they have sent me a letter to tell me my reduced payments are not sufficient and they are preparing to sell the account to a third party. Might be worth to do this now before they sell it.

[ladybird17]

a wise move, I think!

[m55dlc]

I'd go the whole hog. Slap an s85 default on them to stop them selling the account, and also send an s78 request to get your original agreement anyway. Have you gone after them for charges? If not, do the whole hog, send in the SAR.

 

If only everyone in the whole of the UK was able to do this .....

[The Phantom]

I have sent them a SAR back in January which they have defaulted on (no reply whatsoever), so have just given them 7 more days b4 court enforcement. (Letter sent yesterday) Information Commissioner informed

 

Have had another nastygram from MBNA today. Either pay what we ask or we will charge your account again with interest and charges as before (they have suppressed interest for 1 month) as you are not paying enough. If you do not comply we will sell your account to a third party...signed Jamie Simpson (no, not Homer) apparently a section manager

 

They will get s85 and CCA request for original agreement tomorrow. Recorded delivery. Wanted to deliver it to them today with a bunch of flowers but decided otherwise

This is war:-D

[ladybird17]

yes, agree with your senrtiments! But hey, why would you want to waste a bunch of flowers on them (especially at today's prices). Bunch of fives sounds more like it!

[The Phantom]

Point taken. Flower idea discarded

 

Have problem with s85. Copied terminator's good one but can't remember when they issued the first replacement card as I was unaware of all these implications at the time. Talking many years ago

Will just have to generalise I think and tell them they are in default through non compliance..err...hope that will do:rolleyes:

[Perseus]

Hey this sounds very interesting...

 

Can anyone point me in the right direction for template s85/78 letters - think I'll try this one with an Abbey card which is now underwritten/owned by MBNA...

 

Oooh - lets get this part started!!!

 

x

[The Phantom]

I got Terminator's template for the s85 default notice from Battleaxe's thread here (Battleaxe does MBNA). When you read through that you will come across a template for this s85 default notice. I have used that

[Guest The Terminator]

Just thought I'd let you know S85 has not been repealed under the 2006 Act.