Alliance and leicester fined by FOS for retaliatory account closure

[Joa]

whattt?!

 

LOL

 

Anyway, FOS sent me their complaint form, after I cc'ed them on my letter to Lloyds. Lloyds has decided to close my account in July...after my first round with them. But they have changed their mind. After receiving a second slap from me, the sulked like toddlers and closed my account for real this time. Now they claim that the letter advising me of closure, which was sent to me in July 2006 was a "sufficient notice" and they felt they didn't need to send me another one in December. Honestly, do they think we are all mushy peas for brains?

I am not happy that my money makes someone else's life luxurious (shareholders) but I am positively furious that they add insult to the injury by treating our complaints with such a patronising disrespect or bully tactics. That's what makes me truly mad; the stubborn, pig-headed, high-handed pathetic letters that they send us.

I am not an idiot, couple of million account holders are not idiots- how retarded does someone have to be to think that we are??

[Ded]

Go for the Ombudsman Sarah, what have you got to lose, remember the reason the banks get away with so much is because the average IQ is only 90.

[joneshousehold]

I would also include a complaint about HSBC misleading you over the jurisdiction of the Ombudsman saying this caused you to delay your complaint unecessarily. This is especially the case if you are now outside the normal time limits for referral to the Ombudsman.

 

Incidentally Nationwide closed my account and I still owe them a four figure sum. I repeatedly tell them I am refusing to pay, I want compensation in excess of this, the amount is therefore in dispute and they cannot recover or take any enforcement action. So far all they have done is go round in circles before starting to issue the same series of stencil reminder and recovery letters. They fall down on the fact that we seem to be the only people who have a full set of letters to look at whenever we write, they just use a best guess at what has happened previously. They are hopeless. You just would not believe the number of different people that have written to us and none of them ever actually reply directly to the points we have raised. That's what ties them up in knots so much! Bully techniques is exactly right and like all bullies they don't know what to do when someone fights back.

[Sarrahk]

Hey thats great thanks, should i be asking for compensation and if so. how much??

 

I am going to file my complaint today as i did get final response letter (which said it was outside jurisdiction of ombudsman) at end october.. i am still in time i think (its 6 months?) and i will set up my own thread.. or i may just resurrect my old one from last year so people can see the history!!!!

[fivelaws]

Letter of complaint posted to A&L today. I tried to get as many phrases from the FOS decision as possible into the complaint; "I believe your action was a retaliatory and punitive measure...", etc, etc.

 

Account was closed in Aug '06 after we got £6k+ in charges back. I was furious then and I'm no less furious now!

[Sarrahk]

Letter of complaint posted to A&L today. I tried to get as many phrases from the FOS decision as possible into the complaint; "I believe your action was a retaliatory and punitive measure...", etc, etc.

 

!

 

can you send me link for full FOS decision as i would like to quote it in letter to HSBC today advising them am going to ombudsman...

[fivelaws]

I don't think the full decision has been posted anywhere, but the person who actually got the decision is #9 on this thread, where they quote verbatim from the FOS;

 

 

"He should not be prevented from bringing a legitimate complaint by the threat of having his account closed; nor do I consider it fair or reasonable of Alliance & Leicester to respond to his complaint about charges by closing the account. Alliance & Leicester appears to me to have used the closure of the account as a retaliatory or punitive measure".

[seanf]

i look forward to seeing the link too. great news that I can cause A & L further pain. my account is being closed on the 12th of Feb after my successful claim against them. what really annoys me, and to which my response letter eluded to, is not the fact that I have to bank somewhere else ... i'm happy to. its the threats of placing the accounts in default status. bully boys !!

[Sarrahk]

thanks! i have now resurrected my old link and put copy of letter sent to HSBC about it today.. ombudsman complaint on this now underway!

[allangary]

Well Guys Thank You you all For your help I have sent all the letters off and now I'm just waiting for there flacid reply will keep you posted!

[Delboy01]

Nice one !! I now hope to here of such successes regarding the unfair imposition of Defaults due to such charges being levied

 

Anyone any ideas or suggestions or thoughts??????

 

Delboy

[Papyron5]

Dear Bankfodder and the CAG fraternity,

 

I am new to your site and appreciatte the efforts being put into reclaiming bank charges etc.

 

I was reading your piec on the Alliance & Leicester story and in particular the compensation they payed one of the members. In my case they have already closed my account and have taken the matter to Northampton County Court, where I am at the moment filing a defence a counterclaim.

 

They sent the matter to County court after receiving my first threatening letter to take them to court. I am at wits end what shd I do?

 

- Papyron5

[natwesttookmymoney]

Hi, Papyron

 

Don't panic - that's the first thing. Maybe sit down and have a nice cup of tea.

 

Open a 'parachute account' - this is an account with an entirely different institution. get all your income paid into it. Transfer your standing orders, DDs and so on into it. Then you will, at least, have access to your money.

 

Then take the time to read the FAQs and the step-by-step guide. You'll find that this isn't unusual - banks are eithe4r closing accounts (which is against the code of conduct) or are observing the letter of the Code by not actually closing a/cs, simply asking for chequebooks, cards, etc to be returned.

 

It will take a while to get your money back - a matter of months, not days - so make sure you have the means to get by in the meantime. And don't worry - you'll find things are a lot easier if you're not having to pay bank charges every month. You will have more of YOUR money in YOUR pocket - even before you get your charges back.

 

I very, very strongly recommend that you read the FAQs and step-by-step guide. I'm saying it again because, I fear, it's clear that you didn't do so in the first place - you went straight in. If you don't plan and prepare properly, they will take you to the cleaners - or, at the very least, scare the living daylights out of you.

 

As you have found.

 

If they think you don't know what you're talking about, they'll skin you and fob you off with far less than you're actually entitled to.

 

But, as a matter of interest, why are they taking you to court? This is a new tack.

 

Best wishes

 

Westy

[Papyron5]

Thank you Westy,

 

They started by saying I was overdrawn, I sent them a standard letter requesting for all charges for the past 6 years (you know the standard letter) They then replied with all the info I wanted for the past 6 years. In the mean time they were threatening to take me to court and reclaim their funds after withdrawing the overdraft facility.

 

I then dived in with a threatening letter to take them to county court if they dont refund all my charges for the last 6 years, which amounted to over £3,000. By the way I owe them just over 2k.

 

They wrote me last month that they were looking in the matter. The next thing I heard, was a county court claim from the bank to reclaim their funds.

 

I am at the moment filing my defense and counterclaim. Advise needed please!!!!!!!

[Ros2710]

I just went into my A & L account online- guess what ? Its been blocked. Sign of things to come I think.

I served a N1 claim on them last Thursday for £3247.

I expect they'll close the account. Lucky I got another one.

[natwesttookmymoney]

Hi, Papyro

 

Just a quickie, as I'm off to bed, now.

 

My suggestion is to proceed with defence and counterclaim.

 

First - have you acknowledged the claim? If you ahve, it gives you 28 days in total to file your defence.

 

You'll have to modify the wording in the N1 in the templates and include stuff about rejecting and refuting. It's probably worth scouting around the site to see what sort of defences the banks have been submitting. When you find good-looking ones, rip them off with gusto!

 

Go into the Courts Service website and look up Civil Procedure Rules - CPR. Make sure A&L's claim conforms with the letter of CPR, section 15 (I think - it's about the claim) in particular.

 

Are A&L claiming through small claims or another route?

 

It seems to be an interesting new tactic by A&L - to go aggressive and, presumably, to hope to frighten the less well-informed off.

 

Revisit tomorrow.

 

Westy

[Slimine]

Hi wez1211

 

The Tonight program (with Trevor McDoughnut) have been in contact with one or two members of another forum that I belong to and I think it would be highly appropriate for you to contact them given the FOS's decision on your case. Here is a copy of the email sent:

Hi,

 

I work at ITV and we're making another programme on bank charges for Tonight with Trevor McDonald. We interviewed Stephen Hone for our programme last year and we're really keen to revisit the subject.

 

Obviously thousands of people have been making successful claims since last year, but the bank's tactics do seem to be changing slightly. We are very interested in talking to someone who's had their account closed after a successful claim.

 

I'd love to have a quick chat with you about your situation. You can email me:

 

[email protected] or I can be reached on my office number (020) 7316 6445.

 

Thanks,

 

Tom

I'm sure Tom would love to hear from you.

 

....and anyone else of course.

 

Cheers.

 

 

ps. Is there any chance that Admin can change my user name please?

I miss spelt it when I registered. It should read Slimline. Thanks.

[wez1211]

Thanks Slimline, but been there done that!

 

Met Tom and his crew on Tuesday and did interview. To air on Friday,23rd Feb.

 

Wez1211

[Slimine]

Brilliant!!! Its nice to see they're on the ball. I'll look forward to that.

 

BTW What does everyone think about using the same argument ie that its retaliatory and punitive when an overdraft facility is removed because someone has reclaimed their charges?

[veb13274]

Complaint now on its way to Nationwide with copies of the required letters. It really does pay to send everything recorded and only deal by letter...

 

Lets see what happens.

Nationwide paid back my charges claimed but included in letter that they give me 30days notice and will close my account unless I agree to abide by their terms and conditons and won't be making any more such refunds.

I have given them the final decision letter but they said sorry we are sticking by what we say. You see I owe money on my card and if I do not accept terms and conditions, they will send debt collectors in as they have in some cases and put a default in your records which last 6 yrs. I am now in a dilema. Think I will accept and pay off as quickly as I can and close account.

[wez1211]

Interesting thought Slimline, certainly retaliatory but I feel banks would have more defence in these situations. As they could just say it was due to credit history, review of lending policy etc. There are t&c's to a bank account but as I understand there are extra conditions for borrowing, at the end of the day it is the banks money and they have discretion to withdraw the facility at any time subject to notice. Basically would be much harder to demonstrate to FOS that withdrawal of borrowing a retaliation/punitive.

 

Also on a general note re FOS I dont think the banks are going to stop closing accounts because of this decision...yet. Therefore quoting the decision in an effort to prevent closure of the account is not going to work, as the bank is still entitled to do this, albeit using very spurious reasons. Much better to move your banking elsewhere after bank charge reclaim. After all the FOS wont be able to issue further decisions if the account remains open. Also in the grand scheme of things and being asked to compensate me £125 hasnt exactly brought them to their knees - they are still making millions even with all the reclaims etc.

 

That said when the account is closed, complain and take it to the FOS and get them to rule on it. Only with more and more decisions like mine from the FOS will there be pressure on banks to change their ways.

 

At the moment there is only 1! and the banks are hoping it wont be repeated.

 

Wez1211

[bathgatebuyer]

Excellent stuff - I ahdn't read this before, but I think it safe to say I will be contacting them about the Nationwide who notified me that they would pay my few thousand pounds but close my account in the process.

 

Oh well, that'll give me something to moan about well towards Easter!!!

[sjmg]

Hi there,

just stumbled across this thread.I recently asked First direct to refund charges, which they, after a lot of secure messaging back and forth, at last have done.ut their last message to me was following:

 

well, now i just been informed that they try to charge me another £30 in unauthorised O/D charges, because it took them a week to put the money back into my account, and by then ,of course, the new statement date has passed.

Any advice on what i could do? I don't want them to close my account as i have £500 O/D and won't be able to pay it all back in one go.

Thanks in advance for any advice given.

 

Hi I got the same letter from the Co-op, but I just can't risk my bank account getting closed, I have a crappy credit rating and wouldn't be able to get another, and am in my O/D. Even if I wanted to bank with a less ethical instituion (Yeah, because excessive charging and intimidation is 'ethical') I couldn't.

 

So my quesiton is, is there a way around this, has anyone sent a letter to their bank citing the ombudsman's ruling, and would it make a difference? £120 to get rid of a problem customer is hardly going to break the bank, is it?

 

That was a crappy pun, apologies.

[sjmg]

Ah duh,

 

someone has cited the ruling, I meant specifically to smile or Coop? Also, I wrote to them saying I was undergoing financial difficulty, to which I had no response, but as I understand it the banking code specifies in section 14 that banks should behave reasonably toward customers in dire straights.

 

http://www.bankingcode.org.uk/pdfdocs/BANKING%20CODE.pdf

 

I'm pretty sure that closing someone's account, who is in financial strife, and who has no hope of gaining another bank account, is NOT being very helpful. I will write a complaint, citing the FOS ruling, and section 14 of the Code, but with resevations. Has anyone had positive reponses from this line of action?

[wez1211]

You are effectively pleading for leniency and banks have no obligation in this regard. Its a business relationship after all and you have reclaimed charges from them and so I would assume for the time being that your account will closed and make efforts to sort yourself out. In the meantime write the letter citing the FOS decision and see what happens but you cant rely on leniency of bank.

 

1. set up new account asap. there are banks that offer basic accounts for people on income support etc. Also there is the post office

 

2. contact the bank and get a repayment plan agreed for the overdraft, one that is affordable to you. If you dont they may well go down default/debt collection route.

 

Be proactive, not reactive.

 

Best of luck, wez1211