Business Accounts ***WON***

[LizzyBee]

Hi all, as you know I am claiming back my charges from the bank for my personal account. I was singing the praises of CAG to a friend. He is in business, working for himself and has also suffered horrendous charges from Yorkshire Bank which have almost resulted in him going bankrupt at one stage. Can anyone tell me if he can use the same procedure for his business account as we are for our personal ones or is there a different set of rules for him.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

[Guest Zooman]

yes it is the same, the only difference being that if he runs a limited company he should not quote any of the consumer protection laws as ltd companies do not benefit from them.

[Guest Zooman]

I had to rush earlier, the main concern for him should not be bringing the claim, but simply should he, banks are esstailal part of a business when it comes to cash flow, if he is getting charges one can make the educated guess that his business at the time was suffering from poor cash flow, if this is still the case and the bank do lend support (ie, a overdraft, phoning him to inform him of amounts needed in the account, allow chqs to take him into a unauthorised overdraft instead of returning them etc) then only he knows the worth to this business of the support and if he can continue with out it.

 

He should consider the banks true worth before he issues any claim, and he may just find like many others before him the windfall of a few thousand is not worth rocking the apple cart for.

WITNESS STATEMENT.doc

[LizzyBee]

Thanks for the reply Zooman. I can see where you are coming from but my friend is a publican and everything was ok until last year when the licensing laws changed. He had incurred some charges prior to this but nothing compared to the last eighteen months. He had to employ external licensed Door Staff just to open the pub on the weekends and get CCTV fitted etc, etc. It is not a very big pub and all this legislation hit him hard. He did on more than one occasion approach the bank and explain his problems to them and they more or less said Tough. He has now remortgaged the premises which was extremely difficult to do because of his record with the bank. He used some of the money to pay for his staff to be trained so he no longer has to employ outside door staff. He is now financially back on an even keel. We now feel it is pay back time for the bank as they did not support him in his time of need. He has been banking with them for many years and they did nothing to reward his loyalty.

 

I think we will now say 'TOUGH' to them and claim his money back.

[LizzyBee]

Hi again Zooman. Sorry I was having a rant in my last post and idn't get round to asking for the information I wanted. It is not a limited company.. The bank account name is ****** T/A ******. Could you advise me which template I should use when completing the court forms. Thanx.

[LizzyBee]

Since my last post I have been trawling the other threads relating to Business Accounts and came across Booth v Yorkshire Bank. It has made me a bit nervous to say the least. I was wondering if apart with quoting the UCTA along with Dunlop Pneumatic v New garage etc if it would be ok to say that Business Account claimants with accounts at other banks have been successful when quoting this legislation.

 

Just a thought. Any comments would be appreciated.

[LizzyBee]

Have received the following today from Neil McKirdy.

 

Dear Mr *****

 

I refer to your letter dated 29 January 2007, seeking to reclaim charges applied to the above business account.

 

You have sought to rely on the following legislation as a basis for your claim:

 

1. Section 4 of the Unfair Contracts Terms Act 1977 ("UCTA").

 

2. Para 8 and Schedule 2(i)(e) of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999 ("the Regulations"); and

 

3. Section 15 of the supply of goods and Services Act 1982("SGSA")

 

Section 4 of UCTA relates to contract terms where one of the parties to that contract is a consumer. Section 25(1) of UCT provides that "Consumer" has the meaning assigned to that expression in the definition in the same section of "Consumer Contract". "Consumer Contract" is defined as a contract in which one party to the contract deals, and the other party to the contract ("the Consumer") does not deal or hold himself out as dealing, in the course of a business.

 

You deal with the bank in the course of your business. You cannot therefore rely on Section 4 of UCTA.

 

Section 3(1) of the Regulations provides that in these regulation, "Consumer" means any natural person who, in contracts covered by these Regulations, is acting for purposes which are outside his trade, business or professions.

 

As noted you deal with the Bank in the course of your business. You cannot therefore rely on the Regulations.

 

Section 15 of SGSA provides for a term about consideration to be implied into a contract where, under contract for the supply of a service, the consideration for the service is not determined by the contract.

 

The Terms and Conditions of the Contract between you and the bank provide the consideration to be paid where you use the unauthorised overdraft service provided by the bank. Section 15 is therefore of no relevance to this claim.

 

Further, your assertion that the charges are a penalty and therefore unenforceable is misconceived; the law of penalties is only an issue in relation to breach of contract. You have not breached your contract with the Bank as the terms and conditions provide for the event that you exceed your limit on your account.

 

In the circumstances you have no basis for a claim against the Bank.

 

******END******

 

I Would very much appreciate your comments and some advice on where to go from here. Thanx.

[Guest Zooman]

LizzyBee, my advice in chat was not good, sorry but been thinking about it, have you started to claim?

 

your mistake was quoting the "Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations" just get rid of this wording and use common law and the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977

[LizzyBee]

Hi Zooman.

 

I have not yet issued the claim in the court as I am a bit nervous about the POC. The thread Booth v Yorkshire Bank has made me a bit wary.

 

Any possibility you could give me some idea of what to say in the POC.

 

Thanx

 

PS have noticed that you said to quote UCTA 1977. But that is one of the things he says I cannot rely on.

[Guest Zooman]

I've done a business claim, if you send me a fax number I will fax you my POC, and btw I won.

[LizzyBee]

Thanz Zooman, I dont have a fax, if I pm my address could you be so kind as to post me a copy. Would much appreciate it.

[Guest Zooman]

sure

[caro]

I have moved these posts to your own thread Lizzee, as others can easily link into it from the sticky if they are looking for information, and this is your own case progress.

[LizzyBee]

Hi Caro, can you tell me which thread you moved them to. I can't find them. I can then continue in that thread. Thanx.

[Goodison]

Zooman,

 

if you have won a 'business claim' against YB, or any other bank for that matter, I need your POC details urgently.

 

I originally started with the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations AND the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977, but after being threatened with a strike out by the bank, amended it to just UCTA. It still got struck out!

 

How can mine have failed when yours didn't? There cannot be one rule for most banks and another for Yorkshire, surely?

 

Isn't it the law, not the bloody-mindedness of a bank's legal department, that counts here?

 

Help!

[LizzyBee]

I agree Goodison, that's why I am waiting with baited breath for post from Zooman. When I have received it I am hoping with Zooman's permission to ask the mods to use it as a template for business claimants. Just keep watching the threads, I know you are feeling particularly frustrated at the moment but we will get there in the end.

 

Regards

 

Lizzy.

[Guest Zooman]

I want to make something very clear, I am not offering legal advice here just sharing the N1 form that worked for me, I will not be held resonably for any misuse, misunderstanding or anything else coming from posting this here.

zoomans n1 that his ltd company used when sueing the RBS.pdf

[caro]

Fair comment Zoo. Every user must accept responsibility for their own decisions and check their own facts. I think I'm right in saying that your claim wasn't against YB was it Zoo (oops I see it was RBS), although of course the law applies equally to all banks. I suggest people take the time to research the legislation that is quoted in this POC and make sure that it applies to their own claim too, and adapt if necessary.

 

Massive thanks to Zooman for the help though and posting his POC.

[LizzyBee]

Fully understand what you are saying Zoo. We are all responsible for what we put on our own claims. It's just that there is very little in the templates library for Business Claims. Even a rough guide (which I believe is what all the other templates are) would be a big help.

 

Thanx for the POC.

 

Regards

 

Lizzy

 

Have just read the POC. Very clever Zoo, you didn't quote any law at all. Fair play it worked for you.

[LizzyBee]

Well, gone and done it. N1 submitted for £13.5K. Guess it's the waiting game now.

 

Will keep you posted.

[Guest Zooman]

good luck mate

[LizzyBee]

Thanx Zoo. Do you ever sleep??

[Guest Zooman]

like your friend I also own a bar/hotel (5 years now), so not really.

[emmtay]

Hi, any news yet?

Im also claiming for a business account; am just about to file MCOL.

Good Luck!

Emmtay

[LizzyBee]

Hi Emmtay, No news yet, I haven't heard from the court or YB. Presume I will here something next week, if not I will chase them up. Which bank are you claiming against and for how much, if that's not being to nosey?

 

Good Luck with your claim whatever it is.

 

Lizzy