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Business Claims against Yorkshire Bank


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Has anyone had a business claim against Yorkshire Bank or Clydesdale Bank, or have one at the moment? If so, please post a link in this thread so that others can take a look to see how you've got on with it. I only recall seeing one such claim and as usual with this bank it isn't straightforward.

 

Don't worry though, we'll get through it if we help each other in true CAG style.

 

For information here's a link to the Business Claims basic guide.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/105213-guide-business-claims.html

 

What's Best for You?

 

 

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

 

Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007

:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Caro, you are an angel. I have been searching the posts to find someone to help me with this very problem. Hope someone replies soon. I Have issued the LBA letter and had a reply saying that I cant claim back the charges because it is a business account. The account belongs to a friend who is a sole trader and the account is registered as '**** T/A ****'. Not sure where to go from here.

To Love & Be Loved Is The Essence Of Life

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I have just been reading your thread Lizzy. Don't get too excited as I'm just trying to get help too, but if we pull together we'll get there. You need to keep your business claim and personal claims totally separate, and I suggest you have a separate thread for each claim too.

 

Here's the first 2 links for business claims

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/yorkshire-bank-clydesdale-bank/19014-booth-yorkshire-bank.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/yorkshire-bank-clydesdale-bank/63057-business-accounts.html

 

What's Best for You?

 

 

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

 

Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007

:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I wonder if anyone could help i am claiming as a Ltd Company from the Yorkshire Bank

I requested a list of my bank charges as suggested more too save time looking through old statements

I got a call from my local branch suggesting that they charge £15 per statement becuase i am a business as they are not bound by the data protection act for Ltd companies

Is this just a stalling tactic

And would anyone help in the best way of going forward

They have credited my account with the ten pounds i had posted too them

 

Gary

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I wonder if anyone could help i am claiming as a Ltd Company from the Yorkshire Bank

I requested a list of my bank charges as suggested more too save time looking through old statements

I got a call from my local branch suggesting that they charge £15 per statement becuase i am a business as they are not bound by the data protection act for Ltd companies

Is this just a stalling tactic

And would anyone help in the best way of going forward

They have credited my account with the ten pounds i had posted too them

 

Gary

 

Don't know the specifics regarding LIMITED companies. But charges are reclaimable certainly on Sole Trader accounts, although the rules regards permissable law on any Business accounts are slightly different.

Suggest you do a bit of research regards the limited company aspects.

Meantime, maybe you would like to join and contribute to our dedicated Business account claimants thread?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/68191-claiming-business-account-lets.html

All opinions and advice I offer are purely my own, and are offered without any liability. If unsure seek the help of a licensed professional

...just because something's in print doesn't mean its true.... just look at you Banks T&C's for example !

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

What's Best for You?

 

 

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

 

Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007

:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Not Yorkshire Bank I know, but a business claim so I thought viewers of this thread would be interested.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/26925-business-account-over-19-a-14.html#post683471

 

What's Best for You?

 

 

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

 

Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007

:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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  • 4 weeks later...

 

What's Best for You?

 

 

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

 

Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007

:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 4 months later...
  • 2 months later...

Hi I started my Business Claim on the 8th December with a letter before action and a breakdown of the charges I was re-claiming (£2404 plus interest of 682.02), sent it with a letter from the business template.

 

This is the reply I received:

I refer to you previous letters (? I only sent one) seeking to reclaim charges applied to the above business account

You have sought to rely on the following legislation as a basis for your claim

1) section 4 of the Unfair Contracts Act 1977 (UCTA)

 

2)Paragraph 8 and schedule 2(i)(e) of the unfair Consumer contract regulations 1999 ("the regulations")

 

3) Section 15 of the Supply of Goods and services Act 182 (SGSA)

 

Section 4 of UCTA relates to contract terms where one of the parties to that contract is a consumer. Section 25 (1) of UCTA provides that "consumer" has the meaning assigned to the expression in the definition in the same section of " Consumer Contract". "Consumer Contract " is defined as a contract in which one party to the contract deals, and the other party to the contract (the Consumer) does not deal or hold himself out as dealing, in the course of business.

 

You deal with the Bank in the course of your business. You cannot therefore rely on Section 4 of UCTA.

 

Section 3 (1) of the regulations provides that in these regulation, "Consumer" means any natural person who in contracts covered by these regulations, is acting for the purposes which are outside his trade, business or profession.

 

As noted above you deal with the bank in the course of your business. You cannot therefore rely on these regulations.

 

Section 15 of SGSA provides for a term about consideration to be implied into a contract where, under contract for the supply of a service, the consideration for the service is not determined by contract.

The Terms and Conditions of the Contract between you and the Bank provide the consideration to be paid where you use the unauthorised overdraft service provided by the Bankl. Section 15 is therefore of no relevance to this claim.

Further your assertion that the charges are a penalty and therefore unenforceable is misconceived. The law of penalties is only an issue in relation to breach of contract. You have not breached your contract with the Bank as the terms and conditions provide for the event that you exceed your limit on your account.

In the circumstances you have no basis for a claim against the Bank.

If you are unhappy with the way in which your complaint has been handled or the outcome you could refer the complaint tp the Financial Ombudsman Service within 6 months of this final response letter to you. There address is blah blah blah.

 

UNsigned from the Advice Quality Unit - Charges Section.

 

Please help I feel I am on very shaky ground here. Should I refer it to the Ombudsman or keep chipping away?

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I had exactly the same letter. I don't know how to take it, I feel this is just an aggressive stalling tactic, although I'm sure there are ways it's different to reclaim charges as a consumer than a business. However, our business is a not-for-profit unincorporated organisation, an as unincorporated partners do not have the protection of an incorporated company I would have thought they could claim as individuals.

I'm afraid you wan't get anywhere with the Ombudsman at the minute, they have their hands tied until this test case is heard. I phoned them but they're not taking any more complaints until it's settled.

I'd watch out for lots of nasty letters from Yorkshire W**k after this, they started gogin on the attack and heaping on the pressure straight after I sent them my request for payment.

Dont give up though, hopefully we'll get these swindlers!

Can someone more knowledgable please advise us what the next step is now? The playing field keeps changing!!:-|

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Mousemat & Carpetbagger

 

Business claims are indeed different, as you cannot quote or rely upon Consumer legislation.

So you will be challenging the Banks upon the grounds of well established common law.

This should actually be perfectly adequate, and there have been many Business claimants who have recovered charges even in the current climate of blanket stays being commonly granted in consumer claims.

This is because the current case being brought by the OFT is grounded purely upon Consumer laws (specifically the UTCCR).

So (by their own admissions) Consumer laws do not apply to your claim, thus they have no grounds to apply for a stay if it's based upon awaiting some sort of outcome regards the OFT's case.

 

Even though you have already quoted Consumer legislation, I don't think you have really done any damage at this stage, and will now just need to read up on the subjects of Common law grounds for your claim.

I suggest you now do some reading around on the subject of Business claims, then submit new LBA's only quoting such legislation and case law relevant to Business claims. Then, whilst waiting, maybe start reading up and compiling the wording for your court papers.

 

On the downside, I'm afraid you will have to commit yourselves to a fair bit of study (No two claims are identical, and so nobody can hand you everything on a plate). Anyway, it will do you good to get fully familiar with the basis of claim, and the ins and outs of arguing your cases etc.

The link posted above by Caro is a very good start, and gives some very good concise information.

If you also want to just get some confidence from seeing how many Business claimants have already succeeded, and join in some general discussion then maybe take a look here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/68191-claiming-business-account-lets.html

 

It is now a fairly long thread, and not all of it will be relevant, but it will give you a lot of very useful reference, and confidence through seeing how many have already succeeded.

 

Also don't be put of by their blusterings about "services", or "no breach of contract.

Their arguments about the charges being payment for a service are an overt attempt at concealment which is commonly referred to as "cloaking" of the penalty. After all, how can the denial of a service be a service?

You breached your contractually agreed overdraft limit, and in such circumstances they are only lawfully allowed to recover the costs they incurred as a result of dealing with your doing so. Anything more is a penalty, which they have no lawful right to charge.

 

Anyway, after all that.

Good luck

 

PM

 

PS:

You should also try to find either your own contracts or look out for some generally available Terms and conditions (site search, web search etc) from around the relevant time that you opened your accounts.

Also, see if you can find any old letters you received (or get hold of others) from the time of the charges, especially any that presented the charges as in relation to a recuperation of their costs incurred in dealing with such matters.

All opinions and advice I offer are purely my own, and are offered without any liability. If unsure seek the help of a licensed professional

...just because something's in print doesn't mean its true.... just look at you Banks T&C's for example !

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Hi Thanks for your help, but that it the exect point I am confused about. I used the business letter template from the Library and I only refered to Common Law and Contrary to statute, I didn't mention Unfair Contracts or Supply of Goods or Services. Should I write again and ask them to read my letter this time?. Best regards Mousemat

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Hi Thanks for your help, but that it the exect point I am confused about. I used the business letter template from the Library and I only refered to Common Law and Contrary to statute, I didn't mention Unfair Contracts or Supply of Goods or Services. Should I write again and ask them to read my letter this time?. Best regards Mousemat

 

IMHO

They are just digging their own hole here.

 

They have evidently not read, nor given any regard to, or responded to your correspondence with the attention that you as a customer (in actual fact, a monthly premium paying Business customer) deserve.

They have just simply chosen to deal with and respond to your claim in a template carbon copied and impersonal manner, without even actually reading it.

 

This will just ultimately add weight to your claim; that they really don't care and cannot be bothered to pay any real attention to the details specific to your (or in fact any other) claim.

 

Do not stall, nor respond to, waver or back track in response to any of their letters.

 

Continue as per your own prescribed and clearly set out timetable.

They have really had fair warning.

 

Keep their recent correspondence as evidence of their overt attempts at trying to put you (as well as all other claimants ) off claiming, as well as their attempts at causing delays, confusion and uncertainty.

 

At the very least it is evidence of their lack of any genuine concern.

Bourne of a desire to hold onto such unlawful gains for as long as possible, as every day they continue to make money from it.

 

It appears that you have done things properly so far, and I am sure you shall continue to do so.

 

So, show no mercy, take no prisoners............ after all, they certainly didn't when they (okay, actually their automated systems) were quite happily flaunting the law, and readily helping themselves to your hard earned money ... and then also charging you interest for the pleasure !!

 

 

PM

All opinions and advice I offer are purely my own, and are offered without any liability. If unsure seek the help of a licensed professional

...just because something's in print doesn't mean its true.... just look at you Banks T&C's for example !

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  • 1 month later...

after months of silence I received an offer of £5k plus £250 costs - no interest - on 22 feb 08 which I rejected on the same day.

 

I have today received an increased offer of £7k plus £250 costs - again no interest - which i have again rejected - have they woken up to the fact that business claims are not stayed? Or is this part of having to deal with them?

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Previous information is untrue, as well as claims not being stayed, you can go to the Financial Ombudsman for business account charges and get them to sort it out. Obviously you wont get interest etc.

I got a letter through on the 27th Feb from Yorkshire W*nk. They still hold the charges are not unlawful but they informed me

"It has been determind that business accounts are not covered by the proceedings taking place in Court.

As a result if you do not agree with our conclusions you may be able to refer your case to the Financial Ombudsman"

Phoned up the FO and they've taken it on, so I have to file my complaint to them now.

Good if you've got a small amount to claim against YB.

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[quote=Carpetbagger;141087. Obviously you wont get interest etc.

 

I think if you ask for interest when you claim it can be considered. I wouldn't say this statement is strictly correct.

 

What's Best for You?

 

 

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

 

Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007

:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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