JSA (is this forced Labour?)

[JOSH_IOU]

This is a summary of the stricter system of benefit sanctions under J.S.A. The different "crimes" are explained in more detail in the relevant sections

"CRIME" - Not Available for Work, Not Actively Seeking Work, Not Completing Job Seekers Agreement, Failing to attend Employment Service Interview or Restart (or show good cause why you haven't within 5 days):

"PENALTY" - Immediate 100% suspension of benefit for as long as you don't meet the required conditions.

In practice this means your benefit is stopped from when you last signed on - so no giro. Your case is referred to an Adjudication Officer. Where the penalty concerns "Availability" and "Actively Seeking" they decide whether you lose all or only some of the money. If you can show, for example, that you were available for and actively seeking work for ten days you should get money for those days. You should also be able to sign on again at your next signing day as long as you can show you meet the requirements, though they can make you do a fresh claim and Job Seekers Agreement. If you miss a Restart etc. you will have to make a fresh claim. If your refuse to complete a Job Seekers Agreement you don't get any benefit till you do.

"CRIME" - Voluntarily Leaving Work, Refusing Notified Vacancy

"PENALTY" - 100% disqualification for up to 26 weeks. For refusing a Notified Vacancy suspension is immediate. For Voluntarily Leaving Work it goes to an Adjudication Officer first. In both cases the Adjudication Officer decides how long the penalty lasts.

"CRIME" - Refusing to attend Compulsory Scheme, Failure to comply with Job Seekers Direction:

"PENALTY" - Referred to Adjudication Officer. 100% disqualification for 2 weeks, 4 weeks for second & further refusals.

[cheddar]

Not really sure what it is you're asking here, there is no forced labour at all, only a decision to be made as to wether a person wants to abide by the JSA agreement they have made....or am i misunderstanding this?

 

Can you please explain further using any legal argument that may be relevant.

 

Thanks

[JOSH_IOU]

If I do not attend regular meetings or accept a job that is offered to me.

Or if I do not accept a job that is offered to me and i do not give a reasonable answer within the eyes of the agreement (not the law).

 

Then I am peanalized and My JSA could be stopped.

 

This is in essence forced labour.

[JOSH_IOU]

Forced Labour convention

Convention (No. 29) Concerning Forced Labour

 

Article 4

1. The competent authority shall not impose or permit the imposition of forced or compulsory labour for the benefit of private individuals, companies or associations.

 

2. Where such forced or compulsory labour for the benefit of private individuals, companies or associations exists at the date on which a Member's ratification of this Convention is registered by the Director-General of the International Labour Office, the Member shall completely suppress such forced or compulsory labour from the date on which this Convention comes into force for that Member.

[PriorityOne]

Jamesrap, I think I understand where you are coming from... and it's a sensitive issue.

 

JSA (Job-Seeker's Allowance) was originally called Unemployment Benefit and IS (Income Support) was originally called Supplementary Benefit. Both of these benefits were re-named some time in the early 1990s (?)using a fair bit of psychological propoganda.

 

"Benefit" was replaced by the word "allowance" and in doing so, the onus was very cleverly transferred upon individuals to "seek" work in return for money. People had been previously referred to a claimants... a much more passive title, with no requirement to prove they had been actively looking for work. In fact, a silly form was introduced before the name change which just asked people if they were available for work or not.... People used their noddle and just said "yes".... so a box was ticked. It wasn't rocket science to work out how to get around it (I used to work there ).

 

Similarly, Supplementary Benefit was replaced by "Income Support"... well, what income ? In that title, there came an implied suggestion that there was some kind of income that needed supporting... once again changing public focus away from "benefit" and towards "support".

 

It would seem that things have tightened up even further since the days when I was unfortunate enough to work in the Benefits system many years ago. Now, if you do not have children under the age of 16 years, it doesn't seem to matter to the DWP if you starve or not... they will see you as being fit and able to work unless you are also claiming DLA or Incapacity. Since you are depending on them for your giro.... you are therefore left with no choice but to comply.

 

If you are asking whether this is a kind of legalised bullying, then I would have to agree with you. It is. However, it is a very complex and sensitive issue and circumstances differ from one person to the next. There are many people who have abused the "system" over the years... although in all fairness, my personal view is that the majority of these people have been caught in a poverty trap not that dissimilar to the debt spirals that we talk about on here. you only have to look at the rising numbers claiming Incapacity to realise this. Once you are on the spiral... it becomes very hard to get off.... one of the reasons why I was just not cut out to work there.... I looked outside the box, so to speak.

 

I wish you luck in finding the kind of work you want before you get shoved into something you don't. Good luck to you....

 

[cheddar]

I think that PriorityOne has worded that very well and this can be seen as more of a moral/ethical issue more than anything. To claim JSA you have to sign an agreement that says you will uphold your bit to activley seek employment, if you don't then the agreement and any payment therefore will be terminated.

 

However if you wanted to claim something if you were unable to work then you wouldn't have such an agreement. It swings 2 ways really, those who abuse the system make it so those who don't can sometimes have a hard time of it.

[PriorityOne]

Thank you for your comments Cheddar . Incapacity Benefit will be the next one that gets re-named... Lots of people claim it because they are genuinely incapable of work, but.... some people claim because it is very hard for them to earn a living wage as opposed to a wage that supports the income of someone they live with.

 

This is a very real fact of life that gets examined very rarely by the media.... who prefer to focus attention on stereotypes of people caught for fiddling.

 

I hated working there....

[JOSH_IOU]

I thank you all for your input and I agree with what your saying.

 

I have sat in the office with my DEA on many of occasions and he has agreed time after time that I have indedd been looking to actively seek a job. I have time and time again become employed however due to my dissability employers dont always look at a person and class them as having a dissability.

 

Who ever said you had to have a dgeree in psychology to recognise some one has a dissability. It has come to my attention that theese people simply dont have the time to give me the level of support i need.

 

I am actually on a long distance course and when i finish it the company help me find a job in that specific area.

 

I have had jobs through the job centre before but have not been able to maintain one for long.

 

It is my understanding that after a certain length of time I am simply forced to accept a job weather or not I am able to do the job or not.

 

i.e I will be offerd the job on what certifacates I have managed to get.

and not offerd a job that I will sink in under pressure.

[PriorityOne]

It has come to my attention that theese people simply dont have the time to give me the level of support i need.

 

 

You are right... they don't !! People claiming DLA (Disability Living Allowance) sometimes have a horrendous time balancing an illness with trying to be taken seriously by government officials... coupled with having to be poked and prodded by a doctor commissioned by the DWP in their own homes... who has no knowledge of the claimant and/or how that condition affects him/her.

 

I am sorry to hear of your problems and hope that you can find something to get out of the system. Have you claimed DLA, by the way ? It's not means-tested, so when you get a job you can still keep it.

[cheddar]

I would also suggest claiming DLA get someone at the CAB to help you fill out the forms, they usually have 1 or 2 people specialised in filling out DLA forms to help you have the best case. Good luck

[JOSH_IOU]

Cheers Cheddar I already have DLA.

[PriorityOne]

Cheers Cheddar I already have DLA.

 

Have you told folk this at the DWP office that deals with your DLA ? It should mean that it exempts you from being forced into work anyway and suggests that you may not be claiming all you are entitled to !

 

A friend of mine claims DLA and Income Support.... receives no hassle at all. She also receives extra premiums on her IS. Do you receive the mobility component as well ? Which rate of care do you receive ?

 

If you have not yet mentioned this fact to the JSA people, then you need to do so immediately... !

[cheddar]

Oh right well thats confused me as well, can't see why you can't get IS instead of JSA as PriorityOne has said....

[PriorityOne]

Jamesrap ??

[JOSH_IOU]

I do get DLA but i also get JSA

 

If your confused how confused do you think I am?

[PriorityOne]

Why are you not getting Income Support ? Have you told them down there that you get DLA ? What rate do you get, if you don't mind me asking ?

[iwannabedebtfree]

if your disability does not stop you from seeking, and securing work, then yes you can claim JSA, however, your JSA claim must take into account your disability and make arrangements for this, therefore, as you noted at the top if they do sanction you they must be careful not to breach the DDA.

[PriorityOne]

if your disability does not stop you from seeking, and securing work, then yes you can claim JSA, however, your JSA claim must take into account your disability and make arrangements for this, therefore, as you noted at the top if they do sanction you they must be careful not to breach the DDA.

 

 

I have always understood it as, the DWP cannot force a person into employment while they are receiving DLA or Carer's Allowance. Therefore, it gives a person more choices. Of course, there are those who choose work for a variety of reasons, but it remains a choice whether they do or not while they are receiving those particular benefits.

[cheddar]

Thats what I was told in my training as well PriorityOne. I'm really confused at this....

[dannyboy660]

Surely it should be IS, not JSA??

 

JSA (especially Cont. based) is no use to man or beast, as you have no entitlement to Budget Loans, Funeral Payments, etc or perhaps more importantly for someone with an illness/disablity, Communíty Care Grants.

 

You have to be in receipt of IS or (JSA inc. based, min 6 months with conditions) to get these things.

 

JSA implies you are capable of, and actively seeking work.

 

Spooky. Are we all (ex)Civil Servants on this site???

[cheddar]

I worked for a local authority and had some benefits training, not CS though.

[dannyboy660]

Not sure I should admit this, but I'm ex D.W.P Social Fund.

 

And yes..that included chasing payment for Budgeting Loans etc.....not something I'm particularly proud of, especially taking money from peoples benefits without having to inform them beforehand.

 

I'm out of that now that (2 years).......and don't miss it one tiny bit.

 

All the best.

[PriorityOne]

Jamesrap... where have you gone ??.... down to the DWP, I hope...

[iwannabedebtfree]

i agree it is down to the claimant, but if the claimant feels they want to be a jobseeker, and feels that they could secure employment then that si the claimants choice. However, i would be careful to note how a claimants disability may affect their employability and ensure that additional support is provided where necessary. I have the same issue with a client at the moment, they are adament that they want to find work, disability aside, they feel they could secure employment (personaly i hope the jobcentre take on my argument as the client is in 16 hrs pw work based learning, and so should be in receipt of IS), but again it is the client that has made this choice.

[PriorityOne]

i agree it is down to the claimant, but if the claimant feels they want to be a jobseeker, and feels that they could secure employment then that si the claimants choice. However, i would be careful to note how a claimants disability may affect their employability and ensure that additional support is provided where necessary. I have the same issue with a client at the moment, they are adament that they want to find work, disability aside, they feel they could secure employment (personaly i hope the jobcentre take on my argument as the client is in 16 hrs pw work based learning, and so should be in receipt of IS), but again it is the client that has made this choice.

 

Yes, I agree.... it is a matter of choice. Some people would prefer to keep active, but for other's, it's just not an option... sometimes the very nature of some illnesses/disabilities is just too unpredicable.... so there would never be any job security.

 

Jamesrap seemed so frustrated with life.... I hope he doesn't think that he'll be judged on here... can't think of another reason why he hasn't posted, unless he's become really ill again since last time ?!!