MBNA want me to sell my clothes!!!

[sunshine star]

Hi all - thanks for your replies - apologies for not doing the same but I've got an ancient computer and have to wait for a friend to fix it when it crashes!!!

 

So to summarise the above:

 

- even though they have defaulted on the CCA request I should still make token £1 payments;

- send the letter from rory32 customised to my circumstances;

- wait until never arrives for a response?

 

just to summarise my situation:

- mbna haven't sold the account - yet!

- they are threatening a default

- they sent me a letter yesterday offering a settlement figure of 40% off the balance! - i wish I had that cash just lying around

- they have paid back all the charges and interest since I informed them I couldn't afford to make the repayments;

the interest is frozen on the account;

 

I'll be retyping that letter tomorrow - thanks again everyone

x

[sunshine star]

Well, I went to stay with my brother abroad for a month to see if it was worthwile emigrating but I'm back for now. Since I was away I've received a really odd copy of the CCA, it's a print out of my details (like a screen print) showing employer, address etc. On the next page is a photocopy of the bottom part of an application form (tear off slip) with data protection details and on the reverse is a copy of terms and conidtions - no signatures on this page. I'm thinking this isn't what's required!

Also received a letter from the beginning of July offering me the opportunity to make a full and final payment of £3656.16! Nearly £7k off the debt. This is 'a once in a lifetime opportunity before the debt is legally assigned to debt collectors'.

Rory32's letter is going off in the post!

[Jeff2000]

Well, I went to stay with my brother abroad for a month to see if it was worthwile emigrating but I'm back for now. Since I was away I've received a really odd copy of the CCA, it's a print out of my details (like a screen print) showing employer, address etc. On the next page is a photocopy of the bottom part of an application form (tear off slip) with data protection details and on the reverse is a copy of terms and conidtions - no signatures on this page. I'm thinking this isn't what's required!

Also received a letter from the beginning of July offering me the opportunity to make a full and final payment of £3656.16! Nearly £7k off the debt. This is 'a once in a lifetime opportunity before the debt is legally assigned to debt collectors'.

Rory32's letter is going off in the post!

 

 

Hi,

 

 

Doesn't sound like a fully executed agreement to me!

 

Any chance of scanning and posting what you received?

 

 

Regards, Jeff.

[sunshine star]

I'm going to get it scanned in later when my 11 year old son comes home and shows me how to do it!!!! But today I received a copy of MBNA's terms and conditions - the only reference to me is a credit card number on the top. Along with this I received a response to my letter (kindly copied from one of the posts above) stating:

- the debt is certainly owed and payable by me,

- a copy of the cca is served by form of a mailer each time a card is received

- my copy of the agreement does not include signatures by me or MBNA as they are permitted by law to serve me a copy with certain information ommitted, which does not affect its vaildity,

- they have not failed to comply with my request under s.78 and therefore the account is not in dispute,

- they are shortly going to default the account as 7 payments are in arrears and sell it on to a 3rd party.

- they are sorry their response does not meet my expectations!

Howzabout that then!

 

There is no way I am prepared to accept their form of the CCA - it could belong to anyone!

Will scan info in soon

[rory32]

they have not failed to comply with my request under s.78 and therefore the account is not in dispute,

 

True they have not failed to comply with your request under s78 as they can supply an unexecuted copy of the agreement. An unexecuted copy obviously isn't enforceable though. As to the account not being in dispute, that is for you to decide not them.

[sunshine star]

I'm such a pickle. I sent Rory32's letter to them at the beginning of June hence their response weeks later! I can't get this scanner thing to work. Will have another blast at it today.

 

Thinking about all this last night, I'm considering offering them 0.08% of the total balance (their minimum accepted monthly payment) and sending it to them in full and final settlement of the account. From what I understand is, as long as copies of the cheque are kept and it is noted on the back F&F settlement payment, if they cash it that's it. Got to get the money together first but it was a thought!

[Jeff2000]

Thinking about all this last night, I'm considering offering them 0.08% of the total balance (their minimum accepted monthly payment) and sending it to them in full and final settlement of the account. From what I understand is, as long as copies of the cheque are kept and it is noted on the back F&F settlement payment, if they cash it that's it. Got to get the money together first but it was a thought!

 

 

 

Hi,

 

 

I like your thinking!

 

But, is it true!!?

 

 

Jeff.

[sunshine star]

Apparently yes. I do remember this vaguely from studying law. It's the same when there is a dispute over refunds. i.e. I arranged a courier to collect some granite for me a few years ago. When it arrived it was split in two. Argued for months over it anyway they offered a refund of the full amount so I insisted they send me a cheque and not refund my debit card. Anyway the cheque arrives and it's £200 short (the courier cost). I called them up and they said I'd accepted the cheque therefore it was closed. Went to a solicitor and he confirmed that until I banked the cheque it wasn't in full & final settlement. Bit like bank charges really, if you don't spend the money in the account they can't argue you have agreed to the refund unless you sign a document. I've waffled a bit here but going to check it out with someone shortly to see if things have changed recently. I read about this on someone elses link about emigrating and paying off a debt and it reminded me!

Really struggling to get these 'agreements' scanned in. Still perservering thou!

[Jeff2000]

Hi,

 

 

Could well be worth a try with all creditors!

 

 

Jeff.

[rory32]

I don't know about full and finals but I did hear about this years ago regarding reduced payments i.e. if they cash your cheque they legaly accept your offer of reduced payments. That's why you always enclose payment with your offer.

[Jeff2000]

This could be worth following up on!

 

I'll see if I can find out anymore!

 

 

Jeff.

[sunshine star]

It's been a while and I've had no response to MBNA at all until last week. The sent me a letter to confirm that they have sold the account to Link Financial! They of course have also sent me a letter to confirm and have requested full and final payment of the total amount.

I think I'll be sending them a letter to note that I do not acknowledge any debt with them and that the account should never have been sold as it was in dispute. I'll also be requesting a copy of the CCA again directly from them!

[djdave]

I don't think there's any need to send Link a CCA request, as you've already done this with the Moronic Bank of Numpty Americans and they've defaulted on your request.

 

In your shoes, my next step would be a complaint to Trading Standards and the OFT - as you are aware MBNA should not have sold an account which was actively in dispute.

 

Tread carefully, Link are a particularly nasty bunch in my personal experience. However, like all bullies, they do back off when they meet with enough resistance

[sunshine star]

Super star. Thank you. FOS haven't come back to me but they don't know it's been sold on so I think I'll send them a letter updating them on the situation. Would you suggest I still inform Link what's happening?

 

Also, is there a standard letter/form to fill in for the TS or OFT please?

Thanks

[rory32]

Would you suggest I still inform Link what's happening?

 

Yes. They probably are not aware of this. What they do after you inform them is up to them but they won't have the excuse of they didn't know.

[sunshine star]

http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k475/tedsbird/img1.jpg

 

Hi

 

Its been a while but I have't heard a dickie from MBNA nor Link until last week. Received a letter stating they had given me a legal notice (which wasn't received) so they wanted me to get in touch. Sent them copies of previous letters repeating the request for the original CCA and received this in the post. Doesn't look legible but it is. On the next page is a few lines of the terms and conditions etc but to be honest the T&Cs could belong to anyone.

 

It does state "please issue an MBNA credit card to me....I have received a copy of the terms and conditions....I consent to the data on this application being transferred..."

 

Does the fact I've acknowledged the terms and conditions or the fact that it's an application make any difference?

 

I'm wondering whether to offer link a full and final settlement as in my previous posts, to ingore them completely or to send MBNA a cheque with F&F on the back and see where that gets me?

[Jeff2000]

http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k475/tedsbird/img1.jpg

 

Hi

 

Its been a while but I haven't heard a dickie from MBNA nor Link until last week. Received a letter stating they had given me a legal notice (which wasn't received) so they wanted me to get in touch. Sent them copies of previous letters repeating the request for the original CCA and received this in the post. Doesn't look legible but it is. On the next page is a few lines of the terms and conditions etc but to be honest the T&Cs could belong to anyone.

 

It does state "please issue an MBNA credit card to me....I have received a copy of the terms and conditions....I consent to the data on this application being transferred..."

 

Does the fact I've acknowledged the terms and conditions or the fact that it's an application make any difference?

 

I'm wondering whether to offer link a full and final settlement as in my previous posts, to ignore them completely or to send MBNA a cheque with F&F on the back and see where that gets me?

 

 

 

 

Hello tedsbird,

 

 

Personally I don't think they will get very far if that is all they have sent you. No prescribed terms etc!

 

As to what to do. Well, that's something only you can decide. If you are comfortable with making some kind of offer, then that's fine. But if you are prepared for a bit of a fight with Link, then go ahead!

 

Whatever you decide, good luck!

 

 

Regards, Jeff.

[sunshine star]

Hiya Jeff

 

On the addtional piece of paper they sent me was t&c's but it was pre-printed without any reference to me/the account etc.

 

I'm still in a pickle about what to do though. At the end of the day I do owe the money - obviously a drop in the figure is really helpful - not for my conscience but for the worry.

 

It comes whole circle: I owe the money, MBNA acted appallingly - but I did owe them money, Link haven't got the right paperwork - I still owe the money (be it Link or MBNA).

After everything that's gone on I don't think I've got the will or more importantly the knowledge to fight it although I do think I owe it to everyone who supported me in the beginning when the whole scenario was complete hell to make a stand (with regards to abiding by the law for paperwork etc).

 

I might look round for some letters in response to it not being an agreement - more an application and see how I feel then.

 

On a lighter note I'm back within the credit limit of the Lloyds and they're still accepting the token payments and not charging any interest at all. Not sure how long it will last but they've been silent for a while now.

 

Cheers

[sunshine star]

I've attached a pdf version of the two sheets of paper sent for the 'agreement'.

 

The first half is the it I signed. The second half I believe could have come from anywhere!

link.pdf

[Jeff2000]

Hiya Jeff

 

On the additional piece of paper they sent me was t&c's but it was pre-printed without any reference to me/the account etc.

 

I'm still in a pickle about what to do though. At the end of the day I do owe the money - obviously a drop in the figure is really helpful - not for my conscience but for the worry.

 

It comes whole circle: I owe the money, MBNA acted appallingly - but I did owe them money, Link haven't got the right paperwork - I still owe the money (be it Link or MBNA).

After everything that's gone on I don't think I've got the will or more importantly the knowledge to fight it although I do think I owe it to everyone who supported me in the beginning when the whole scenario was complete hell to make a stand (with regards to abiding by the law for paperwork etc).

 

I might look round for some letters in response to it not being an agreement - more an application and see how I feel then.

 

On a lighter note I'm back within the credit limit of the Lloyds and they're still accepting the token payments and not charging any interest at all. Not sure how long it will last but they've been silent for a while now.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

Hello tedsbird,

 

 

If you are looking for a letter to send, you can use this or adapt it to suit your case:-

 

 

Account No: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

 

Dear Xxxxx

 

Thank you very much for your enclosure regarding the above. However, with the greatest respect, this cannot be construed as the original Credit Agreement under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. As it stands, this document is improperly executed; it does not contain all of the prescribed terms, nor is it signed by the creditor. Furthermore, it is barely legible in parts, and some of the print is obliterated with a bar code.

The document will be filed and retained in the event of any litigation.

If you would be so kind, please forward the fully executed agreement with ALL the prescribed terms as specified by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

 

I am sure that you will be aware that until such time as I do receive the fully executed agreement I am well within my rights to cease further payments.

 

I look forward to your response.

Yours sincerely

PS. Lloyds TSB have accepted my reduced payments for over a year now!

Best wishes, Jeff.

[sunshine star]

will adapt that to my cause and send it with pleasure!

 

many thanks Jeff

[2Grumpy]

I think that MBNA have acted atrociously in this

 

At the end of the day, there was a debt there, but you have to consider what MBNA did in the past - all of the phone calls, what they said, the texts & letters. Remember how they made you feel - how they wanted you to feel. Do they deserve to be paid? Shouldn't they pay something for the way that they treated you.

 

Token payments for a few years won't make any difference to them. You can't afford to pay. In your circumstances, don't feel bad about not paying. They can afford it.

 

Remember that if you don't pay they will be writing that off as a loss for tax purposes. Any interest you paid was at a high rate - that also offsets any losses that they make - including yours.

 

The thread title says it all really.

Edited July 29, 2008 by 2Grumpy

[pelham9]

 
agree with dave. out of all the creditors out there MBNA are one of the worst. 

The actions of MBNA are often illegal, not unlawful. Illegal.

 

I have not yet seen any MBNA CCA documentation that has been enforceable.

 

If there is no enforceable CCA agreement

 

1)there is no debt - you can consider the 'loan' to be a gift

 

2) no charges or interest can be added to an unenforceable account.

 

3) No attempts at enforcement may be made by anyone including DCAs.

 

MBNA know all this but continue to act unlawfully hoping to scare you into a payment. The only reason they have offered a F & F settlement is they know they are entitled to nothing.

 

Now I know that you are an honest person who does not want to take the route of so-called debt avoidance ( there is legally no debt) but think how they have treated you. They can threaten and lie but you must not- you must be honourable. Can you afford your moral scruples in your financial circumstances to feed an arrogant profit making organisation who will write off this miniscule loss against tax. The fat cats who run these organisations get more than you owe every week - do not feed them

 

Think about the damage that these financial organisations and their DCAs do to the unfortunate in our society. By not paying this 'debt' until they can prove it may go a small way to make them behave lawfully and hence reasonably.

 

The reason they have not got the correct paperwork is that producing and storing it costs money and reduces profits. They have made a risk assessment on this i.e. that they will save more money by not having the documents than they will lose by writing off debt when their bluff is called.

 

Please post your MBNA CCA agreement using Photobucket if you ever get it. What you have posted is illegible. It might contain prescribed terms but I very much doubt it. If they say that they have sent you the documents you have asked for this is another lie.

 

I personally would not communicate further with MBNA etc. They know the score and can do nothing. In the end they will make a commercial decision and leave you alone.

[2Grumpy]

I read the phrase "application form" in the pdf

[sunshine star]

Hi Grumpy/Pelham9

 

Fortunately I'm not dealing with MBNA anymore. The 'debt' has been bought by Link Financial. So far I've had a few letters and the odd phone call (which I wrote and asked them to remove my number) which all seemed confused by what I was asking and said they'd never heard of that before. Being honest, they weren't horrible calls from them - I think they were stunned by my requests and wanted to get off the phone.

 

Yes, the 'CCA' which was sent through was the application form I signed. It's the same one I eventually received from MBNA after they sold the debt. The 'cca' received & posted is the one they sent - it isn't any clearer on paper.

 

I posted Jeff's letter off this morning so I'll just have to wait and see what they respond with. I've heard that Link are a nasty bunch so if it does start to go wayward I'll be sending that cheque marked F&F on the back!

 

I haven't been paying MBNA nor Link any money since MBNA defaulted on the CCA request. Initially it was a token payment, they defaulted so I stopped the payment then they sold the account.

 

Fortunately, fingers crossed, my financials are on the up. I've just started my own business so I can work from home and I've got support from the Princes Trust and Business Link to set it all up. The last thing I want is to start coughing up the profits to them. I've increased my payments to Lloyds as they haven't been any bother and I do want to pay it off.

 

Will post when there are more developments!

Edited July 29, 2008 by sunshine star
missed a bit!