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First timer, hi chaps and chapesses.

 

Just received a letter from BCW today, very surreal reading it whilst watching WatchDog :shock: .

 

Usual fare judging by other posts here. Debt from 5 years ago, AMEX this time, instructed by Arrow Global LLC. It was addressed to my wife in her maiden name. We moved about that time. Asking for £1,766.01.

 

To be honest we think this was cleared with other debts we had at the time. That was the reason for selling the house. But since things went from bad to worse we're going to find it pretty hard to get old statements from our (ex)banks or find any relevant documentation.

 

I've phoned them (mistake I know) and asked what the amount relates to. They have a 15 digit card number (is that right?) and that's about it.

 

I read somewhere about getting a Data Protection letter to them - is this worth it?

 

They also have a registered office address now at the bottom of the letter of 11 Elm Court, Arden Street, Stratford Upon Avon, CV37 6PA. Although reply address is still BCW House etc.

 

Also they seem to now be PLC - All the previous posts mentioned LTD.

 

Any help would be appreciated, I thought we'd seen the back of all this stuff.

 

Yours,

 

Smokin!

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Smokin Jo,

Buchan Clark & Wells Ltd

These two you mention are both different companies, they are seperately registered at companies house and each seperate company HAS to hold its own licence, The Glasgow office is the one that isnt registered, the other one is.

 

In other words they,ve dropped a B&&&&&K.

 

Sparkie1723

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Hi Sparkie, thanks for your swift response.

 

B&&&&K? lol

 

Been reading more threads and my letters more thoroughly. How does this sound?

 

From Arrow

Reference: AMEX, Account Number - (Nothing here at all)

Dear Smokin

Above acc has been assigned by AMEX to Arrow Global LLC on 18th Dec 2006.

This means Arrow Global LLC is now the owner of the above account.

Under the terms of sale and as defined in the Data Protection Act 1998 Arrow is now the data controller of your personal data contained in the records of this account.

You have a right to update your personal data, should you wish to do so contact Arrow.....

BCW Group PLC (Another name) has been appointed by Arrow to manage your account. All contact should be directed to BCW at 24 George Square....

 

does that all sound above board?

 

Cheers

 

:???:

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BCW are still registered at Companies House as LTD. And listed by the Information Commissioners Office

as being registered in its other name of Avance group ltd as the PLC.

It would appear from Companies House and the ICO that they are two

separate companies, which would seem to differ from your experience.

It is possible that Arrow have changed from using BCW ltd to BCW Plc.

 

Just send them a CCA request with a £1 postal order. There is a letter you can copy in the General Debt section-you will find it at the bottom of the "sticky" subsection [by Barracad] and you want letter N. This will stop

BCW from chasing you until they have complied with your demand. If they

have not replied within the timescale, do not write and remind them.

 

Next get copies of your credit files and see what they show. And then get back to us.

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Hi Sparkie, thanks for your swift response.

 

B&&&&K? lol

 

Been reading more threads and my letters more thoroughly. How does this sound?

 

From Arrow

Reference: AMEX, Account Number - (Nothing here at all)

Dear Smokin

Above acc has been assigned by AMEX to Arrow Global LLC on 18th Dec 2006.

This means Arrow Global LLC is now the owner of the above account.

Under the terms of sale and as defined in the Data Protection Act 1998 Arrow is now the data controller of your personal data contained in the records of this account.

You have a right to update your personal data, should you wish to do so contact Arrow.....

BCW Group PLC (Another name) has been appointed by Arrow to manage your account. All contact should be directed to BCW at 24 George Square....

 

does that all sound above board?

 

Cheers

 

:???:

 

Hi there

Just a couple of quick questions - dealing with these people myself - they are beyond belief!!!

 

1. Who is chasing you for the debt?

2. What is the debt and do you have any record at all?

3. What is Arrow's involvement as opposed to BC&W?

 

You need to send a CCA to both Arrow and BCW enclosing a £1 cheque or Postal order and using this format:

 

 

Buchanan Clark & Wells or Arrow

Dear Sir/Madam

ACCOUNT NUMBER: ********** Reference Number ****** re: AMEX?

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company. I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter.

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 Cheque in payment of the statutory fee and Data Protection Request. Cheque Number *******

2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

I look forward to hearing from you in due course.

Yours faithfully

Boo

;) Boobaby

Please hit the scales if you think I've helped!

Please note that advice given is purely my opinion and should be treated as such.

FAQ’s

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/

HSBC Claim - August 2006 £2,700 paid November 2006

Halifax Claim - August 2006 £4,100 paid December 2006

GE Capital - August 2006 - settled

Log Book Loans - August 2007 - sorted

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Hi Boo!

 

It's tragic that we gave up everything to clear these debts, paid in full at the time (wish I came here back then), then something like this crops up and I'm sure we covered it.:(

 

Amex is the original debt for a credit card.

We received two letters in the same envelope - one from Arrow (see precis above) and a FORMAL DEMAND from BCW.

 

We don't have any of the paperwork because we thought it was all sorted. Our banks closed our accounts when we settled from the house proceeds. Nice eh? Will have to try and get statements from them from 5 years ago..... sheesh.

 

Thank you for the letter, very helpful, mine wasn't nearly so brutal.

 

Appreciated,

 

SJ

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BCW are still registered at Companies House as LTD. And listed by the Information Commissioners Office

as being registered in its other name of Avance group ltd as the PLC.

It would appear from Companies House and the Information Commissioners Office that they are two

separate companies, which would seem to differ from your experience.

It is possible that Arrow have changed from using BCW ltd to BCW Plc.

 

The letterheading is buchanan clark +wells

The reply address is bcw house, 24 george sq etc.

Reg no 03967099

Then it says a member of bcwgroupplc (relevant?)

It's signed - for and on behalf of Buchanan Clark & Wells

Finally registered office in Avon at bottom of page.

 

Hope this sheds some light.

 

SJ

Oh - and no address on the letter from Arrow Global LLC.......... So no writing to them then?

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Ah, BCW. I'm dealing with them right now. On average, they send about 3 letters a month threatening court action. Dream on, you loons...

A+L - £950 settled in full.

 

Bank of Scotland - MCOL filed 9 Jan for £1500

 

Bank of Scotland (for parents) - £5000 settled in full October 06

 

Bank of Scotland (mum's account) £1900 settled in full November 06

 

Intelligent Finance: DPA non compliance sent 26 Jan

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Ah, right so it says BCW Group PLC, not Buchanan Clark & Wells PLC.

 

Both Buchanan Clark & Wells and the BCW Group PLC have their registered offices in George Square and both companies have changed their name to

the Avance Group ltd and their registered office is in Stratford On Avon.

 

Have you sent the CCA request yet?

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Sorry Smokin Jo, I meant Arrow have their registered office in Stratford.

[bCW are part of the Avance Group].

i'd send the CCA to BCW only-they are the ones that Arrow are saying you

should deal with-so they are the ones you want to stop.

 

I wouldn't do an sar yet. Wait and see how good Arrow are at getting the

agreement for BCW. But in the meantime, if you haven't already done so, get

a copy of your credit file from Experian for example and see what Amex are

showing on your file.

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Sorry lookinorinfo,

 

I have to correct you

Only Buchanan Clark & Wells LTD

are registered at George Square. Glasgow.

This company is completely seperate from the BCWGroup Plc/Ltd.

 

And again I state this company is not registerd with the Information Commissioners Office.

Before they became a limited company they were in fact just Buchanan Clark & Wells who were owned by AVANCE group Ltd and used the AVANCE licence with the Information Commissioners Office to process data.

 

When they became a limited company a silly little person in Buchanan Clark & Wells did not register the Ltd company with the Information Commissioners Office BUT are using AVANCE licence at present and in doing so are committing a criminal offence. Licences from the Information Commissioners Office are not transferrable and cannot be used by another company thats why all the Banking Groups of comapnies such as Black Horse, Lloyds TSB RBOS etc etc have to have their own licences, even though they are in the same group.

All have to have their own licences, There is a difference in "sharing" information and actually processing it, thats why they all hav to have their own to process it and hold it.

 

You will see the details as per the pasting below. Sparkie 1723

 

Name & Registered Office:

BUCHANAN CLARK & WELLS LIMITED

24 GEORGE SQARE

GLASGOW

LANARKSHIRE

G2 1EG

Company No. SC223606

 

Previous Names HMS (404) LTD

This Company is not registered with the Information Commissioners Office

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Name & Registered Office:

BCW GROUP PLC

11 ELM COURT

ARDEN STREET

STRATFORD UPON AVON

WARWICKSHIRE CV37 6PA

Company No. 03967099

 

Previous Names:

BCW GROUP LIMITED

APEX CREDIT MANAGEMENT LIMITED

ANGLOPEN LTD

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Information Commissioners Office Registration Licence

 

Registration Number: Z4811295

Date Registered: 27 June 2000 Registration Expires: 26 June 2007

 

Data Controller: BCW GROUP PLC

Address:

11 ELM COURT

ARDEN STREET

STRATFORD UPON AVON

WARWICKSHIRE

CV37 6PA

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

AVANCE GROUP LIMITED

UNIT 5 - 11 16 FARMELOAN ROAD

RUTHERGLEN

SOUTH LANARKSHIRE

G73 1DL

Company No. SC085954

 

Previous Names

 

04/07/2006

BCW GROUP LIMITED

03/07/2006

BCW GROUP PLC

12/06/2001

BUCHANAN CLARK & WELLS PLC

 

Registration Number: Z6481590

Date Registered: 01 March 2002 Registration Expires: 28 February 2007

 

Data Controller: AVANCE GROUP LIMITED

Address:

16 FARMELOAN ROAD

RUTHERGLEN

G73 1DL

 

Other Names Buchanan Clark & Wells

NOTE NOT LIMITED

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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If you google bcw or buchanen clarke & wells they come up with the same address and all my letters from them are headed buchanan clarke & wells but the direct debit i had with them said bcw group plc???

I think they are one and the same.

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If you google bcw or buchanen clarke & wells they come up with the same address and all my letters from them are headed buchanan clarke & wells but the direct debit i had with them said bcw group plc???

I think they are one and the same.

 

Have been discussing this situation etc long and hard - who ever they are you will be lucky to get any written information out of them. See:

 

Consumer Action Group > Debt Action Group > Debt Collectors and Debt Collection Agencies navbits_finallink.gif Boobaby vs GE Capital & DCA - Help please !!

;) Boobaby

Please hit the scales if you think I've helped!

Please note that advice given is purely my opinion and should be treated as such.

FAQ’s

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/

HSBC Claim - August 2006 £2,700 paid November 2006

Halifax Claim - August 2006 £4,100 paid December 2006

GE Capital - August 2006 - settled

Log Book Loans - August 2007 - sorted

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gavv8.

 

You can be 1000% certain that Buchanan Clark & Wells Ltd at George Square, Glagow is not the same company in legal entity terms as BCW Group Ltd they are a seperate company if they weren't every one of their directors would be unside NOW that's for sure.

 

BCW Group plc cannot chase you for a debt that has been sold assigned or whatever to BUchanan Clark & Wells Glasgow and vice versa FACT they are not the same.

Sparkie1723

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On the bcw group website it does make reference to buchanan clark & wells and the fact remains that the letters i have regarding my debt with argos are headed buchanan clark & wells and yet my bank statements show the direct debit as being paid to bcw group plc.

Also if you go to the pay online site of b c & w it states quite clearly at the bottom that buchanan clark and wells are part of the bcw group plc.

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You can correct me all you like Sparkie, but if you look at a local Glasgow website George Square it seems awfully full of companies of that ilk.

I am not saying that they are all registered there, but they appear to work out of there.

Glasgow Debt Collectors

 

Buchanan Clark & Wells Plc

24 George Square

Glasgow Lanarkshire G2 1EG

Tel: 01412 214567

 

Buchanan Clark & Wells

24 George Square

Glasgow Lanarkshire G2 1EG

Tel: 01412 214567

 

 

I have already spoken to the ICO as you know, about another company who

are not registered with the ICO at their registered address. The ICO take the view that whilst this is wrong, at least they are registered. And as they seem to accept that it is alright for Buchanan Clark & Wells to operate under the

umbrella of Avance Group, I am not sure that the ICO would care that much

if they are now a Limited company, or even a PLC.

But I could be wrong............

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Hi again, sorry for bump.

 

Just got home from work and catching up.

 

So where does the above leave me? Do I send anything and who to?

 

I'm ready to go with this but really don't want to make a mistake.

 

Thanks in advance guys,

 

SJ

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  • 1 month later...
But in the meantime, if you haven't already done so, get a copy of your credit file from Experian for example and see what Amex are showing on your file.

Update.......

No sign of any debt on Experian

Sent the letter that boobaby suggested on 8th March and received two letters today.

1st dated 14th March

I write regarding your recent communication........

I would advise that we do not hold Credit Agreements at this office as we are not the Creditor. Under the circumstances your postal order is returned.

However, account is now on hold and have asked my Clients to forward the documents to you directly.

 

Please do not hesitate to contact us blah blah blah......

 

**** Funny note on bottom in small type reads

Buchanan Clark & Wells is a trading style of BCW Group plc etc etc

2nd Letter Dated 15th March

With Reference

Pursuer: Arrow Global LLC

I write with regard ................

I can confirm that I have arranged for a copy of the invoice to be sent to you directly by our Clients. This will be with you as soon as possible.

Blah blah.......

***********************************

Any help with how to proceed from here would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks all,

SJ

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Sorry for re-visiting this.

 

Since it seems from reading that a few have received the above blustering I just wondered if anyone had deducted what this means?

 

Or should I just wait?

 

Many thanks,

 

SJ

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So here I am waiting for the documents/invoice (what's with the invoice bit??) and I receive a letter threatening a visit from an Investigation Officer. Wifey's beside herself (I'm out all hours working).

 

I've seen mention of this before, but can't find the thread.

 

Do we wait on receiving the documents/invoice or are we likely to get a knock on the door - should I write, although I'm worried about reminding them about the CCA request.....

 

Any suggestions?

 

Cheers,

 

SJ

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So here I am waiting for the documents/invoice (what's with the invoice bit??) and I receive a letter threatening a visit from an Investigation Officer. Wifey's beside herself (I'm out all hours working).

 

I've seen mention of this before, but can't find the thread.

 

Do we wait on receiving the documents/invoice or are we likely to get a knock on the door - should I write, although I'm worried about reminding them about the CCA request.....

 

Any suggestions?

 

Cheers,

 

SJ

 

Hi SJ

 

I wrote to them in August of last year and I'm still waiting for them to comply with my request. They sent me a copy of a statement of account that was dated 2003 which was prior to them dealing with the account.

 

They have not sent copies of:

 

1. The original signed agreement

2. The deed of assignment

3. Statement of Account showing all of the payments made to them. In fact nothing that I requested.

 

I have reported them to The Information Commissioners Office and have had the following response:

 

Thank you for your correspondence dated the 25th of January 2007.

You have complained that, as yet, the information requested from Buchanan Clarke and Wells has not been received.

When we receive a complaint like this, we are under a duty to consider if it is likely or unlikely that there has been a breach of the Data Protection Act 1998 (the Act). We will then decide what action, if any, to take.

Following a recent Office of Fair Trading decision about ‘penalty charges’ we are aware that the number of individuals making subject access requests to financial institutions has significantly increased. However, clearly these financial institutions are still required to comply with subject access requests within the statutory 40 calendar days.

As you may be aware under the Act there are eight data protection principles. These are sometimes known as the principles of good information handling as they set out the way organisations should handle personal information. The sixth data protection principle requires organisations to process personal data in accordance with an individual’s rights under the Act. Therefore if you have not been sent the information you are entitled to within 40 days, it is likely to be in breach of the sixth data protection principle

We have written to Buchanan Clarke and Wells to advise them to provide you with the information you are entitled to as a matter of priority. Furthermore we will ask them to outline what steps they are taking to ensure their future compliance with the Act. Therefore although we will now close your case we would like to assure you that we will continue to carefully monitor this issue.

Finally, it may be helpful to explain that a breach of one of the data protection principles is not a criminal offence and we cannot punish an organisation for a breach of principle. Our priority is to get organisations to take steps to solve the problem and to ensure they handle personal information properly in the future.

However, it may also be helpful to explain that if you have suffered a loss because an organisation has broken the law, you may be entitled to compensation. We do not have any powers to award compensation and any claims should be made through the Court.

We would like to thank you for bringing this matter to the attention of the Information Commissioner.

 

When I became involved with this organisation some years back it was more out of fear than anything else - see my original thread:x . I wish this forum had been around then I can tell you.

Anyway all I can suggest you do at this time is challenge them if I'm wrong then someone will advise you differently.

 

1. Ask them why they are sending an Investigation Officer, as this matter is currently under dispute and being dealt with via written correspondence only anything else will be seen as harrassment.

2. Are they in breach of the sixth data protection principle yet in that you have not received the information you requested in the original CCA? If so send a reminder.

3. Report them to the ICO and the local trading standards for non-compliance someone somewhere has to take notice of all of these complaints.

 

Please tell your wife not to worry. Should they turn up on your doorstep which I very much doubt will happen, then advise the caller that you are calling the police and you will have them charged with harrassment etc...

 

This Company is full of hot air and empty threats, they love to intimidate as they've no doubt found that in most cases this works, it did in mine originally but hey this worm turned;)

 

I hope this helps, if anyone wants to add anything or amend please feel free!

 

Boo

;) Boobaby

Please hit the scales if you think I've helped!

Please note that advice given is purely my opinion and should be treated as such.

FAQ’s

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/

HSBC Claim - August 2006 £2,700 paid November 2006

Halifax Claim - August 2006 £4,100 paid December 2006

GE Capital - August 2006 - settled

Log Book Loans - August 2007 - sorted

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Wow, interesting letter Boobaby!

 

So are they still pestering you or have they given up? Do they have the right to revisit your case, as and when, since it's not a criminal offence they've committed?

 

Personally I'm going to write in direct reference to the "visit" letter. I don't think I'm going to push on the CCA request and let the 40 days run through.

 

Then I'll report them like you have! ;)

 

I've been giving the wife verbal boxing lessons so hopefully she'll be able to handle matey when/if he calls.

 

Boobaby you're a star, many thanks.

 

SJ

 

******* Letter Added ********

 

Dear Sirs

BCW Ref: XXXXXXX Client Ref: XXXXXXX

I write with regards to your correspondence dated 14th March 2007 in which you suggest I will be subject to a Personal Visitation from a Debt Investigation Officer.

I refer you to your letters sent on the 14th and 15th of March in which you state that our account is on hold pending the supply of information which I have requested. You will also note from my letter which you received on the 9th March 2007 that this alleged debt is contested.

I advise you that I am not prepared to discuss this matter either by telephone or in person with your company or your representatives, and all communication should only be by written correspondence.

Kind regards,

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