AlexTed vs Abbey ** WON (pre-OFT case) **

[alexted]

I'm about to start a claim against Abbey for nearly £400 and would like to charge interest.

 

In the bank charges area of the MoneySavingExpert.com site, Martin Lewis has 2 versions of the preliminary approach letter template; one to use if you want to claim interest, another if you don't. Here, in the "Preparitory Steps" section of the FAQ, there's an answer which suggests that interest should not be claimed before the court claim stage.

 

Doesn't this mean that if the bank settles before a court claim, I'd lose out on the chance of getting interest on top of the charges? (Yes I am being greedy! Just like the banks...) Or have I misunderstood?

 

Is there a particular legal reason why interest should not be mentioned before the court claim stage?

 

Thanks.

[Mad Nick]

alexted, you've got two options :

• include a claim for contractual interest from the off. See http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/18313-why-no-one-claiming.html. A long thread, but worth skimming. Two basic approaches : claim back the interest they levied on the charges or claim the unauthorised interest rate because contracts work both ways and them taking the charge from you was unauthorised
  
• 8% Statutory interest which is what the Judge can award at his/her discretion.

Is there a particular legal reason why interest should not be mentioned before the court claim stage?

Contractual, you do (see above). Statutory - I would think not because you can claim whatever you like provided you're prepared to justify it in Court (if it got that far). I suspect the advice about not including 8% Statutory prior to Court claim has more to do with not wanting to risk upsetting a Judge by appearing to say that 8% is automatic not at his discretion. If you decided to use 8%, probably best not to call it Statutory before the Court claim. But then it never ends up in Court anyway !! Regards, Mad Nick

[alexted]

Many thanks for that, Mad Nick.

[alexted]

Just sending my prelim letter today. I have a relatively small claim, £385.50, so I hope Abbey won't kick up too much of a fuss, but I fully expect to receive the standard get lost letter in a couple of weeks. Will post progress reports.

 

I'm hugely grateful for all the advice and information available here.

[alexted]

Well, the get lost letter arrived, with a not-so-subtle reminder that my employing a solicitor to handle my complaint wouldn't affect how they review it, ie won't speed things up, I suppose, and that they wouldn't be liable for any third party costs. Tetchy little blighters, aren't they? Who needs a solicitor, I've got you lot!! Mind you, they must be sooo fed up with people asking for their money back! My heart bleeds for 'em...

 

LBA goes in on 14th Feb.

[alexted]

Can anyone tell me please if it's possible to reclaim charges relating to two accounts at the same time? So far I've started the process of reclaiming charges on my (joint) current account, where I'm waiting for a reply to my LBA. Today I've found out that Abbey are going to charge me for one, possibly two, transactions on my business account, which is in my name only, ie Mrs X T/A Y.

 

When it comes to starting the court claim, which seems inevitable, can I add these business A/c charges to the same claim? Obviously I'll make it clear which charges relate to each account, etc. Just wondering if I can save some time by doing this rather than starting a second claim from scratch again.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated - thanks.

[sam78]

My claim is for two separate accounts so it shouldn't be a problem, just amend the figures when you begin your claim.

[alexted]

Thanks, Sam, I'll do just that.

[alexted]

My N1 went off last week and this morning I've received the Notice of Issue from my local court. Abbey will be deemed served by tomorrow and have until 26th March to respond.

 

I'm guessing they'll wait until the last minute and then file a defence - that's the norm, isn't it? Has anyone had an early settlement of a small claim from Abbey?

[alexted]

This morning I've received a GOGW letter from Abbey. I've just checked my account online and 3 "Miscellaneous fee refund" payments have been credited, totalling £100. (The letter doesn't mention the court claim - may have been written before it was served on Abbey)

 

Obviously I'm only going to accept this as part payment (the claim, inc interest and fees, is for just over £500) so I need to write to Abbey explaining this. I've read the rejection letter templates, but they respond to a "Final Settlement" offer. Can I just amend letter 5 to a GOGW, rather than a FS?

 

One other thing; the letter authorises the bank to withdraw the money because it's not accepted as a final settlement. Well, to be honest, my instinct is to run to the nearest cashpoint and get the money into my purse ASAP! Can I leave this bit out? If I withdraw the cash and tell them I'm still pursuing the balance, can Abbey change their mind and take the money back?

 

Any and all advice would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks!

[Advoc8]

I think you'd be ok to take the money out of the account. The money's not been offered as full and final settlement, and even if it has Abbey would have to show you accepted it as such. A letter saying that it's accepted as partial settlement and you'll continue your claim is all that's required.

[alexted]

Thanks, Advoc8, I'll move the money and write them a letter.

[newbody]

i would personally suggest leave the money where it is send a letter saying you accept as part payment and will assume they have accepted these terms unless the respond by XX date. then if they havent replied by XX date then remove it that way they cannot argue that you took the money as full and final payment as you gave them the oppotunity to dispute it as partial payment and remove the money if it wasnt acceptable

 

 

Just my opinion

[alexted]

Aw boo!

 

I'll have to put it back now!

 

I think you're probably right.

[Mad Nick]

Alexted, I wouldn't worry - I have never, never, never seen an instance of Abbey paying in a GOGW and then withdrawing it even if the person wrote to Abbey rejecting it (as opposed to accept in partial settlement). Just remember to account for it on the N1 (as a deduction on the front page). Regards, Mad Nick

[Advoc8]

and will assume they have accepted these terms unless the respond by XX date

 

What on earth would you say that for?

 

If it's made clear at the earliest reasonable opportunity that the claimant is only accepting it as part-payment then there's no possible argument - it was only a part-payment.

 

The authorities state that it's the actions of the claimant that determine whether it's a full or part settlement. I'd not do anything that gives the bank any leeway, and I see no reason to allow them to have the cash back.

[alexted]

Okaaay, so that's two for moving the money and one for not... any more?

 

Thanks all of you for the advice. I moved the money to a higher interest account earlier today, but I can always move it back if Abbey get (even more) stroppy.

[alexted]

Mad Nick,

 

I sent off my N1 on 4th March, so can I just ring or write to the court and tell them about the GOGW?

 

Thanks.

[newbody]

What on earth would you say that for?

 

Quote:

and will assume they have accepted these terms unless the respond by XX date

What on earth would you say that for?

 

If it's made clear at the earliest reasonable opportunity that the claimant is only accepting it as part-payment then there's no possible argument - it was only a part-payment.

 

The authorities state that it's the actions of the claimant that determine whether it's a full or part settlement. I'd not do anything that gives the bank any leeway, and I see no reason to allow them to have the cash back.

 

Just my opinion and as a view to stop the banks claiming they only offered it as a full payment not a part payment so you could demonstrate you gave them the chance to take the money back if it was not acceptable to them for it to be used as partial payment the only leeway i can see you would be giving the banks in this action is to withdraw the funds which you would continue to claim back anyhow and as mad nick says

I have never, never, never seen an instance of Abbey paying in a GOGW and then withdrawing it even if the person wrote to Abbey rejecting it (as opposed to accept in partial settlement).

 

Just trying to cover all bases

 

Sorry for the hi-jack Alexted

[alexted]

Newbody, no apology necessary, I'm learning all the time!

[Mad Nick]

Alexted,

I sent off my N1 on 4th March, so can I just ring or write to the court and tell them about the GOGW?

In that case, don't do anything with the Court just yet. Include the GOGW letter in your Bundle (when the time comes). That way, everyone knows it's part of the settlement whether it happens direct with Abbey prior to Court or in Court. Regards, Mad Nick

[alexted]

Many thanks, Mad Nick.

[mariejader]

My N1 went off last week and this morning I've received the Notice of Issue from my local court. Abbey will be deemed served by tomorrow and have until 26th March to respond.

 

I'm guessing they'll wait until the last minute and then file a defence - that's the norm, isn't it? Has anyone had an early settlement of a small claim from Abbey?

 

No they seem to be acknowledging the claim a few days after it's issued now, (or at least they did with my claim and a few other people's from what I have read) advising they are defending which then gives them another 14 days.

[alexted]

OK, I've drafted a response to Abbey's GOGW - could someone more knowledgeable and experienced than I take a look at it please and let me know if I need to change anything?

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

Lloyd Henry

Senior Customer Relations Manager

Abbey National Plc

PO Box 5885

Milton Keynes

MK10 1FA

 

12th March 2007

 

Response to Gesture of Goodwill

 

Dear Mr Henry,

 

A/c no. XXXXXX XXXXXXXX

 

Thank you for your letter dated 6th March 2007 and for the £100 “Gesture of Goodwill” that has been credited to my account. I will accept it as part settlement of my claim.

 

You may not have been aware that I commenced legal action against you for the full amount plus interest and costs on 5th March 2007, claim no. XXXXXXXX, and I would ask that you now refer this matter to your legal department for further instruction.

 

I wish to stress that I do not accept the “Gesture of Goodwill” as settlement of my claim, and the money transferred to my account should not be viewed as my acceptance. For the avoidance of doubt, I will continue the legal action for the return of the balance of the claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Should I also send a copy to Triton Square, where all previous letters have gone?

 

And, reading Maiejader's thread this morning, I think I may have screwed up on the N1 - instead of sending 3 copies to the court, I sent 2 and KEPT one for myself, so it doesn't have a court stamp. Is this going to be a problem, does anyone know?

 

Thanks.

[Mad Nick]

Alexted, perhaps you just need a few words to say why you are pressing on. What about amending middle para to

You will wish to note that, since your responses to date have singularly failed to justify your assertions that the charges were enforceable in law, I commenced legal action against you for the full amount plus interest and costs on 5th March 2007, claim no. XXXXXXXX. [delete the bit about referring to legal departments - that's their problem LOL]. HTH Regards, Mad Nick