please help.. my son, computeach & clydesdale financial services

[karens25]

hi

im doing this at 4 a.m as cant sleep for worrying about my son and his partner..

last year he decided he wanted a career change and signed up for a computeach computer course,costing £5000! he was guaranteed a job at the end of it?!! anyway he has received one lot of work which he never completed and nothing else from these people, i think he hoped they had gone away and forgotten about the money he owed them.....

however

yesterday they received a letter from clydesdale finance saying it was time to start paying the money back, he could pay £5000 immediately or £210 per month for ever it seems until £10.000 is paid back to them, yep £10k!!!! he hasnt got £5k and certainly cant afford to pay £210 per month for something he doesnt want to do and wont have anything to show for his money!! he said he wast told about the finance when he signed up. i feel this is a [problem]..

can anyone help please

karen

[ladybird17]

I think it all depends what he signed at the very beginning. Does he have any documents? Also did he tell computeach that he didn't want to continue, in writing? I really think it all depends on the Terms& Conditions of Computeach and what was signed at the beginning. I'm not sure where Clydesdale come into this - did he sign up for finance with them to fund the course?

[karens25]

hiya

thaks for your response, he signed an agreement with computeach, i will have to look at it closely for the t & cs, he didnt inform them that he didnt want to continue the course, but they stopped sending stuff after the first book, so hes meant to be paying 10k for probably a £50 book!! the only other document he has is the letter from clydesdale finance saying the funded the loan , that arrived yesterday and he says he was unaware of their involvement...

its not as if hes had a car, or aything remotely near £5000 worth..

im really worried for them, they just dont have the money..

karen

[ladybird17]

First, I would write back to Clydesdale asking them for a copy of the finance agreement. Not sure if you might have to do a Subject Access Request for this (can someone else advise on this?). I don't see how they can enforce this if your son didn't sign anything. Do you have a copy of the agreement with Computeach? This may have something about finance it - check carefully.

The fact that your son didn't tell Computeach he wanted to stop could be a bit sticky, for what they will probably say is they don't send you any further material until you have completed the first lot - do you have to send your work back to them when you have finished each bit?

[chesham]

hi

im doing this at 4 a.m as cant sleep for worrying about my son and his partner..

last year he decided he wanted a career change and signed up for a computeach computer course,costing £5000! he was guaranteed a job at the end of it?!! anyway he has received one lot of work which he never completed and nothing else from these people, i think he hoped they had gone away and forgotten about the money he owed them.....

 

I don't mean to sound negative or patronising, but if he signed up to a course, and just didn't bother with it, then what can be expected of that? The loan with the bank is a contract with your son, not computeach and so despite his misgivings with the course or it's content, the money still needs to be paid back.

 

If you lent someone some money to do something, and they didn't do it, would you think they were reasonable in saying they couldn't pay you back ?

 

I mean, some common sense may need to be applied here - he joined, didn't like it but just kept quiet and didn't do anything about it - and now they say (quite rightly) they want their money back (which they LENT your son for the purposes of the course) so, in essence, it needs to be paid back! If he was still on the course, then he would be required to pay it back anyhow, and if you take out a loan with a bank, then there really is not much chance of them forgetting about it.

 

My advice is that it will never go away, they will never forget about it and the money WILL need to be paid back. I would stop fighting the fact that it is owed and stop thinking that the money won't need to be paid back - and concentrate on what CAN be paid and approach the bank to come to an agreeable repayment scheme.

[chesham]

Also, is this a career development loan? If so, then there are different terms and conditions within this, one of which I believe says that the money is repayable despite the success or completion of the course which the money was used for.

[karens25]

thanks again for your response, im sure you're meant to send each lot of work back once completed, i will check this and also the agreement, perhaps a cca request? im not really sure either, he cant be the first for this to happen to though can he?

im going to have a good read around and see if i can find something else about this...

k

[rosiecotton]

I agree with everything Chesham has said. You really need to get hold of a copy of his credit agreement to see what he has signed up to repay. But I am afraid your son will have to take some responsibility for this situation. As far as I can see computeach are not in breach of their contract, your son simply stopped doing the work and hoped it would all go away - I'm afraid legally binding contracts just don't go away by themselves.

[karens25]

hi chesam

i see what your saying, he shouldnt have signed up in the first place it wasnt that he just didt bother but he works long hours as a farmer and they have a small child, maybe he was a bit naive, but my argument is he hasnt had £5000 worth of anything and had he had a loan from a bank then at least he would have had some money in his pocket or something to show for it.

i dont know if it was a career advancement loan or not, i will read the agreement carefully

[ladybird17]

Well actually Karen, he has had £5000 worth of something - Clydesdale's money by the look it, which they paid directly to Computeach to fund his course, which he decided not to do. Now quite rightly, Clydesdale now want their money back - you really must look carefully at everything he signed. If Computeach send you work to do and say that when they've had that back they'll send you the next bit, well - they're not really doing anything they shouldn't, as far as they aware, they are still waiting for your son to send back his work, and they haven't heard from him.

[ladybird17]

Thinking further on this - this is how I see it in terms of a comparison. If your son wanted to buy a car, he goes to the garage and says he wants this car but he can't afford it. The garage arranges finance with a lender, and your son gets his car. He drives it once, finds he doesn't like it, leaves it in the garage and doesn't tell anyone. He doesn't pay any money to the lender, and eventually, they ask him for the money. He can't sell the car as it doesn't belong to him - it belongs to the lender because the lender paid the garage for it. Unless there is NO credit agreement in force (which, frankly I think there probably is), I do't see what the options are from here, other than appealing to Compteach's better nature.

[karens25]

thanks for all your responses, not exactly as id hoped but appreciated anywayl...

as for the car thing i understand what your saying but in a lot of cases the car can be returned to the lender and they will take the difference from the sale of the car from the original debt, i know someone who has just done this, still that doesnt help us now..

thanks again

[rosiecotton]

As far as I see it, your son will have to pay Clydesdale Bank the money as they have indeed paid Computeach for their services to your son.

 

All your son can really do is contact Computeach as soon as possible- he should not have let this slide for so long already - and tell them that the course is not for him and whether it would be possible to claim back some of the money paid.

 

He will be in breach of contract to Computeach if he does this, so he will be liable to pay them damages as he will be the party in the wrong. The damages will include any costs Computeach have incurred plus any loss of profit they will suffer for him pulling out of the course. However he could ask them to refund him anything he has paid which he won't now benefit from - i.e. tutor time, books and resources that Computeach will now not have to supply.

 

Therefore it's worth a try. Your son will have to accept that he is the party in breach of contract but he can argue for a partial refund for the resources that Computeach will now not have to supply. Don't hold out hope for vast sums, though - but try and negotiate this and see what their response is. Do not word the letter aggressively! Remember that they are not in the wrong.

[karens25]

thank you for that, will do....

[chesham]

hi chesam

i see what your saying, he shouldnt have signed up in the first place it wasnt that he just didt bother but he works long hours as a farmer and they have a small child, maybe he was a bit naive, but my argument is he hasnt had £5000 worth of anything and had he had a loan from a bank then at least he would have had some money in his pocket or something to show for it.

i dont know if it was a career advancement loan or not, i will read the agreement carefully

 

Ok, a couple of points here.

 

If he worked long hours as a farmer and has a small child, why did he sign up to a course which does require some form of long term commitment?

 

He HAS had £5000 worth of something - the course! Purely because he didn't choose (or couldn't continue) with the work on the course is not really an excuse to breach a contract.

 

The loan was from the bank - if he didn't arrange it, then it would have been done on his behalf by the bank. I am 99% sure that the loan was a career development loan, which would mean the funds were supplied only for the funding of the course with a specified funder - and I am 99.9% sure that the bank would not have released funds without a signiture from your son.

 

As mentioned previously, your son has to take some responsibility for his actions. He wanted to do a course, recieved the payment for it, and decided not to do it - in law, an inconvenience is no defence for a breach of a contract in any circumstances - indeed, the very nature of a voided contract in law is that a contract must be fustrated by the impossible and not by a simple fact which makes it inconvenient or more expensive to see through to the end.

 

He did have £5000, the nature of the loan means the funds go to the institution and not the student, he cannot back out of owing the money because he changed his mind about doing it.

[pompeyfaith]

i too had a course with computeach and financed by clydesdale although i paid £3000 I completed the course had one on one tuition via email had no probs at all i paid clydesdale in full and indeed got better employment so it worked for me although now i wish i had not opted for the course because there are plenty of free courses out there but then that was my fault for jumping in the deep end.

 

The only option for you is to contact clydesdale and explain your situation maybe then you can come to an amicable agreement.

[Viking468]

Karen I am a student of Computeach. I was touched by the picture of you on your computer at 4 a.m worried about your son. I contacted Computeach and told them about your posting. Unfortunely they have no idea who you & your son are. They said if I could identify your they are willing to try to assist. Please email me on [email protected] and I will put you in contact with the right person.

 

hi

im doing this at 4 a.m as cant sleep for worrying about my son and his partner..

last year he decided he wanted a career change and signed up for a computeach computer course,costing £5000! he was guaranteed a job at the end of it?!! anyway he has received one lot of work which he never completed and nothing else from these people, i think he hoped they had gone away and forgotten about the money he owed them.....

however

yesterday they received a letter from clydesdale finance saying it was time to start paying the money back, he could pay £5000 immediately or £210 per month for ever it seems until £10.000 is paid back to them, yep £10k!!!! he hasnt got £5k and certainly cant afford to pay £210 per month for something he doesnt want to do and wont have anything to show for his money!! he said he wast told about the finance when he signed up. i feel this is a [problem]..

can anyone help please

karen

[Guest Battleaxe]

Clydesdale Financial Services is an arm of Barclays. nothing to do with Clydesdale Bank.

 

CFS would have paid Computeach the money for the course your son signed up for, so he has a contract with CFS regarding repayment of the loan.

 

He does an SAR with Clydesdale Finance Services 10000 Academy Park Glasgow addressed to the Data Controller. he sends this request using a Postal order crossed and recorded delivery. They think they are above the law on this, so will take longer than their 40 days +. They will only send a statement, so you will have to be very explicit in what you want.

I have dealing with this lit of tricky devils and until I got the ICO involved they thought they were untouchable.

 

Their interest rates are bordering on usary, and he will end up paying about 73% interest.

 

Sadly as they will have already paid computeach the money, he will either have to get Computeach to refund some of it, but again, because he was naive and did not inform about cancelling the course, they may be reluctant to do this, but again this is where small claims comes in handy, also Trading Standards, but I would not hold my breathe on this one.

 

It is real mess.

 

I would write to Computeach and outline that the course is cancelled and what is their refund policy.

 

Write to the Data Controller Clydesdale Financial Services for the SAR and repeat that you also want a copy of the Agreement.

 

Clydesdale will also start applying £22.50 admin charges for the first late payment and will aplly another £22.50 in ten days if it remains unpaid. be prepared for this.

 

I would say you best bet is to get what money you can refunded from Computeach, but I doubt if this will happen as your son has not notified them in writing that he will not be continuing with the course.

 

Do not despair, at the moment it looks bleak, but with the collective thinking on this site , as resolution might be acheived. it wont be a quick fix, so be prepared for this to drag on for at least 6 months and a lot of letter writing. you could get your son to give permission in writing for you to act on his behalf, otherwise he will have to do the lot himself.

 

I do hope this helps.

[karens25]

thank you viking and battleaxe, im so grateful for your input, as you can see my responses before yours were quite negative and id almost given up on this one.. but you have made my day, there is a shred of light at the end of the long dark tunnel!!

i dont mind if it does drag on 6 months battleaxe as long as we achieve something in the end..

im glad you both came over here..

thanks again

a very grateful mum

[Guest Battleaxe]

Karen,

 

Just hang in there, no guarantees, but unless every avenue is explored, you will worry.

 

I hope Viking can help with the Computeach side of things.

 

All you have to do, is get the letter writing started and try to remain positive.

 

I will keep an eye on things for you and if you need help, will open my big mouth

[karens25]

hi battleaxe

we'd actually got the cca request ready for posting, is the sar better? not sure how to amend the one in the template library though, would you mind helping me out?? sorry if being a bit dumb, but dont want to mess things up anymore than they already are!!,viking has a meeting with computeach tommorow about us, how cool is that!! i believe you're responsible for bringing this to his notice.. thank you so much.. i can probably beat you on the big mouth front, just that not all the right words come out of mine!!

thanks again

karen

 

 

karen

[Guest Battleaxe]

Do the CCA request to Clydesdale.

 

I have been thinking about the SAR, perhaps do one for Computeach and see if you can get a copy of the contract your son signed regarding the course and terms and conditions of the Course he signed up for.

 

The SAR, just alter it to suit the circumstances and ask for a copy of the Contract regarding the course. They wont know what it is but let them think about it

[karens25]

cheers

will keep you posted

[karen22]

Hi Karen25

I am also a student but of skillstrain not computeach (I shopped around before I committed to a course), they also use funding by Clydesdale Financial Services. This loan is covered by the Finance and Leasing Association. I am also in a dispute with CFS over my course fees but for a different reason.

 

The loans for these courses are not Career Development Loans. CDL only provided by Barclays(directly, not through CFS), The Co-Operative Bank and RBS, I've just been told.

 

Whilst I am sympathetic to your problem and sincerely hope that someone at Computeach will be as sympathetic and grant your son some sort of refund to his fees, I don't understand how he got in this mess in the first place.

The Computeach web site states:

At Computeach we ask you to have a firm commitment and investment in money and time in your own future, and the fact is that your new future is affordable. We offer a range of funding methods that will put a new career within everyone's reach.

Price is determined by your career aspirations, existing level of experience and knowledge. We use a careful selection process to ensure that you choose the programme that will best help you to achieve your career goals.

Our selection executives will explain pricing in detail once they understand your background and have helped you to choose the programme that suits your personality, skills and future aims.

 

I presume your son read this before contacting them for an interview. I dont know about him but my interview was very intensive, indepth and very informative. I had to convince the consultant selling the course to me that I was prepared and willing to do the work, that I was capable of doing the work and that I understood the amount of time I would need to put in.

The financing was arranged at the same time. He made a phone call and I was asked if could afford what was offered, when we came to an agreed monthly amount, terms were worked out and I was given both contracts to read and sign. I knew exactly what I was signing up for and what the commitment was. There are also details of the 'cooling off period' on the finacial agreement.

I agree with Chesham here:

 

If he worked long hours as a farmer and has a small child, why did he sign up to a course which does require some form of long term commitment?

 

He shouldn't have signed up for the course but from my experience he must have been very convincing to have be offered the place, I know people who have NOT been accepted for these courses. He couldnt have been that naive.

 

I also agree with Battleaxe:

 

Clydesdale will also start applying £22.50 admin charges for the first late payment and will aplly another £22.50 in ten days if it remains unpaid. be prepared for this.

 

There is a late payment charge of £22.50 whenever you fail to make a payment in full when due. There is also a £15.00 charge everytime a DD claim is not met or a cheque bounces. These payments are set out on the FRONT of the loan agreement which your son should have read before signing. Tucked away in the TERMS are other 'default charges' which 'could be applied' for requested statements, phone calls and letters etc. with no specific amounts actually stated but are in the 'standard tariff of charges' which you can request.

 

You really need to find out how the course costing £5,000 a year ago is now costing £10,000. My loan was interest free if payed back within the specified time (36months in my case) and the first payment due was one month after the advance date, when Skillstrain received their money (6weeks after signing up in my case). This information is set out on the FRONT of the loan agreement which your son should have read before signing.

CFS wrote to confirm the payment had been made, telling me the start date, I then received a letter from Skillstrain telling me the finance had gone through and I could start the course.

I missed one payment recently and was contacted by another company Career Development Finance to recover that payment. If your son has missed payments for the last year then you really need to find out why there has been no correspondence from anyone regarding the finance of this course over the last year.

I wish you luck