Baliff petition;Stop them getting a legal right to forced entry;Peter Bard

[Spandavia]

Hi everyone,

 

I just found this on a BBC forum - thought you'd all like to see it as it explains such a lot!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Posted: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 21:17:25 +0000 Post subject: BBC News: Ministers warned over bailiff law http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6358591.stm

 

Quote:New powers for bailiffs may be at risk of contravening human rights laws, a committee of MPs and peers has warned.

 

The Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Bill proposes new powers, including forced entry and the right to restrain people, for enforcement agents.

 

Any changes to how bailiffs are allowed to operate is significant because the government intend to use fines enforced by bailiffs to enforce compliance with ID Cards. To give bailiffs the power of forced entry would represent a major erosion of civil rights for non-payers and the heavily indebted in general.Back to top

[Cornucopia]

Twice welcome even!

 

 

BBC NEWS | Business | What to do when the bailiffs come

 

......I'm getting good at this! This is a link to a BBC website article from today about how to deal with Bailiffs. This appears to have come out of nowhere and there is no mention of the possible new legislation.......can it be a co-incidence?

[Spandavia]

Me again,

 

Not getting any work done today because I'm totally mesmerised by the number of things I'm finding on the net relating to the demise of our civil rights. Just found this article (see link) and I suspect some of you have already seen it. But for those who haven't - have a read and lock up your pets!!!

Thank God my husband is the boss here or I'd definitely get the sack!

 

London Motorists Action Group - IS THE GOVERNMENT FEATHERING ITS OWN NEST BY HARSHER BAILIFF LAW?

[Cornucopia]

Me again,

 

Not getting any work done today because I'm totally mesmerised by the number of things I'm finding on the net relating to the demise of our civil rights. Just found this article (see link) and I suspect some of you have already seen it. But for those who haven't - have a read and lock up your pets!!!

Thank God my husband is the boss here or I'd definitely get the sack!

 

London Motorists Action Group - IS THE GOVERNMENT FEATHERING ITS OWN NEST BY HARSHER BAILIFF LAW?

 

Me too, I am supposed to be cooking tea and organising a Brownies uniform but some things are just too important! This is scary stuff!

[Bailiffchaser]

Skynews have also caught up as well but as usual a day b4 the hearing in the ommons :

 

'A Law Unto Themselves'

 

Updated: 09:56, Monday March 05, 2007

 

Bailiffs could soon be breaking into homes to seize goods for credit card debts without a court order.

A new law will leave vulnerable people at risk from 'rogue enforcers', according to Citizens Advice.

The charity has revealed nearly two thirds of bailiffs are guilty of harassment or intimidation, while 40% misrepresent their powers of entry.

Under the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Bill, which is being debated in the House of Commons, all bailiffs will be given the power to enter domestic premises and enforce consumer credit debts, including credit card bills.

At present, only certain enforcement officers - notably those enforcing magistrates court fines - have these powers.

And bailiffs can only break in to homes if they have a court order.

 

 

David Harker, chief executive of Citizens Advice, said: "Our evidence over many years shows that bailiffs have an appalling track record of abusing their existing powers against vulnerable people.

"They are often abusive and aggressive and use threats of violence and prison to pressurise people into paying lump sums they cannot afford."

The charity is also pressing for independent regulation of bailiffs to be included in the proposed legislation.

Citizens Advice said evidence from its network of bureaux revealed that many private debt enforcers act almost as a law unto themselves.

Checks on 500 bailiff cases revealed intimidation, harassment and excessive fee-charging were commonplace.

Citizens Advice is calling on the Government to include in the Bill clear safeguards to ensure that forced entry is only used as a last resort

[snail]

Hi guys, this is not good,

 

Read this today>>>

An unpaid credit card bill could soon be all the excuse a bailiff needs to break into your home and seize belongings - with the full blessing of the law - Citizens Advice has warned.

The national charity fears that vulnerable people will be at greater risk from bailiffs abusing their powers as a result of measures contained in the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Bill, which received its second reading in the House of Commons on March 2nd.

 

what does that mean(recieved it's second reading)Has this law gone through on the 2nd of march? so is there any point in me signing the petition?

[natwesttookmymoney]

Hi, Snail

 

Bills go through two readings, Committee Stage and then a third reading before they become Acts - that is, law. No, it's not too late - not yet, but time is shorter than it was.

 

Sign the petition but do more. Contact your MP, contact your District or Borough councillor(s). Get your MP to speak and vote against it; ask your councillor(s) if the local council is going to use bailiffs who use force in the manner proposed, or will they require adherence to higher standards. You can vote against MPs and councillors: the latter are particularly sensitive to local democracy. a few hundred votes can cost them their seats - and their party control of the council.

 

So take action and do it quickly.

 

Best wishes

[maybelline]

good luck with approaching councillors and MP's, when a bailiff threatened me and my family both of these were pretty useless, suggested I hand over a tv, (imagine giving them future rights of access in doing so??!!) would not get involved, just wanted to know if I owed the money as if that made it alright to be threatened, abused, and traumatised...........

 

not being negative just honest, but yes contact these people and open their eyes.

[MoonHawk]

Being discussed on the Wright Stuff programme on Ch5 NOW. And getting a decent attack on the bill.

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

[MoonHawk]

Unfortunately it was not a very long discussion

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

[MARTIN3030]

My local Tenants and residents association will probably be interested in this they represent a great area of my neigbourhood and have a website and produce a newsletter every 4 weeks that goes out.

I am going to ask them if they will put details of Peters petition in the newsletter and also try to increase awareness.A good idea for others to do the same.

[Spandavia]

I was quite disappointed with the Wright Stuff - Mr Wright seemed fairly cavalier about the situation even although he has had a visit from a bailiff. I think the problem is that people who haven't experienced this situation just assume that people with a debt deserve all they get! So I'm not sure how you get the seriousness of this bill across to the general public because they think it doesn't affect them. Which of course it does!

 

I tried to find out yesterday who had posted about the bailiffs collecting for ID cards (I copied the post to this site) because this seems very serious and an explanation of why the government are so eager to push the bill through. But the site it was on is locked and you can't reply to posts. Has anyone else heard any mention of this?

Best to all.

[Peterbard]

The second reading of the Tribunals Courts and enforcement Bill was held yesterday in the Commons I have put a link to the page here;

 

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200607/cmhansrd/cm070305/debtext/70305-0005.htm#0703054000001

 

As you will see there is a lot of debate about the section of the bill that relates to bailiff powers.

Most of the rest of the bill seems to be pretty well accepted by the house but there is expected to be problems with the opposition benches over aspects of section 12.

 

I have outlined some of what is in the Hansard

 

It was mentioned that there should be a definition between private and commercial dwellings when it came down to allocating bailiff powers of entry and this will be explored further at the committee stage.

There was also some debate about when information provided in response to a freedom of information act request By Lord Beauly, was “Blanked Out”. Information outlining exactly how and when bailiff powers to use force will be applied,.

 

” It is also necessary for bailiffs to have a clear focus and effective guidance. I asked the Minister about the magistrate’s courts guidance on search and entry powers under the Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Act 2004 and pointed out that when Lord Beaumont asked for a copy of it, he was given a 31-page document, of which 15 had been redacted—blacked out completely. That was disappointing. We are looking for more open government, and to ensure that the bailiff system carries public confidence, but that will not happen if a key guidance document of instructions to bailiffs has redacted pages. What is so secret about those instructions? Are bailiffs being given hints and tips about how to enter people’s homes and cause maximum grief to our constituents? I do not know, but we must see that guidance published in full. The lack of its publication is a sorry state of affairs this also will be clarified in committee.”

 

The promise of extra regulation and training for enforcement officers is somewhat marred by the fact that the legislation would be in force long before the consultation information was available let alone the legislation drafted, there was also concern that the regulations would be secondary legislation and therefore not subject to full scrutiny of the house,

It was therefore suggested that no increase in bailiff powers be introduced until the regulatory powers are in place. This will also be taken up in comitee.

Many anecdotal reports of bailiff misbehaviour were reported including a pretty damming revue of the bill by the Citizen’s Advice Bureau.

Another point was raised which has been touched on before here :

“It is important to bear in mind another constitutional point. Criminal fines are civil debts, not criminal debts, so enforcement should not constitute an additional punishment. That is a fundamental point, and we should look at it carefully when analysing why and how Her Majesty’s Government are justifying allowing extra levels of forced entry. They say that it is to enforce criminal penalties, but if one drills down a bit further one sees that many of those criminal penalties involve fines for quite minor offences—for example, not having a TV licence or car tax disc—or parking tickets and congestion charge penalties. Many other examples have been given by the excellent Zacchaeus 2000 Trust, which put forward a convincing and compelling case that many debts are fuelled by poverty. Some of the most vulnerable people in society will lose rights, while the power of the state will grow.”

The Bill will be redrafted for the Committee stage on the 27th March and it is absolutely essential that we do all we can to increase public awareness that bailiffs will be given the legal right to use force and physically restrain people in their own homes in order to serve a civil warrant if nothing is done.

It seems like the press and media are eventually getting on board so now is the time to write to your local newspaper letters columns and make a nuisance of yourself with your MP .I have only sampled a very small amount of what went on Monday here and would recommend you read the transcript in full so that you can put your MP on the spot and make him/her declare where they stand on the issue,

Peter

[Peterbard]

Hi

 

Keep the e-mails going to Dominic Smales the linkis further up the thread i understand they are becoming inundated.

 

Keep up the good work

 

Peter

[natwesttookmymoney]

Peter

 

Thanks for all the terrific work you're doing.

 

Westy

[Spandavia]

many thanks for that update Peter. How bizzare this whole thing is! 15 pages blocked out!!!

 

I have just posed this question on the Question Time website:

 

The old adage 'an Englishmans home is his castle' which is based in the common law and has been upheld for over 700 years is to be abolished if the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Bill becomes law in it's present form. Does the panel think that giving bailiffs more power than the police so that they can break into people's homes is good law or will it just be further hardship for the most vulnerable people in society and increase domestic violence?

 

I hope they use it as the programme is a forum for serious debate. Could be useful if lots of people sent them a similar question - what do you think? here's a link to the programme:

 

 

BBC NEWS | Programmes | Question Time

[Peterbard]

My local Tenants and residents association will probably be interested in this they represent a great area of my neigbourhood and have a website and produce a newsletter every 4 weeks that goes out.

I am going to ask them if they will put details of Peters petition in the newsletter and also try to increase awareness.A good idea for others to do the same.

 

 

Good idea

 

Kind regards

Peter

[Peterbard]

Cheers Westy

 

Got some news in just got to get my head around it and i will post it shortly

 

Keep up the good work

Peter

[Bailiffchaser]

Pete sorry for hijacking your thread for a post. If anybody has had a problem with a bailiff acting unlawfully etc i am willing to take the case on but before i do i need all the paperwork that you have. When you send it to me remove your name account details etc. Send them to

 

[email protected] i will see what i can do !!!!!!

[Peterbard]

Nio Probs

 

More power to ya

 

Peter

[Peterbard]

Martin will you empty your PM Box

 

Cheers

 

Peter

[Peterbard]

HI

Have a look at this courtessy of Herbie on the other thread.

 

"Best article i have seen"

 

State-sponsored daylight robbery | the Daily Mail

 

Peter

[MARTIN3030]

Martin will you empty your PM Box

 

Cheers

 

Peter

 

Done:D

[Peterbard]

I apologise for this post in advance but I feel rant is in order.

 

I have just watched the third episode of the bailiff program on BBC1 and I find myself incensed yet again.

It isn’t by the many inaccuracies or blatant playing towards the Bailiffs as the “Good Guys”, I have got used to that baloney in the last couple of days, and it isn’t even the self righteous attitude of the presenter.

It is the sheer bloody pointlessness of the whole exercise. They had three bailiffs remove the contents of this poor guy’s house whilst they had him watch the excruciating procedure from a remote location by cctv.

At the end of all this the total value that could be raise for the goods was admitted to be less than it cost to remove them.

The bailiff ,with his best social conscience head on, when asked if he thought that this was an effective way of recovering money said “yes they usually find the money by borrowing it or getting another credit card. I could have thrown the TV out of the window.

 

When listing his debts the chap mentioned all the usual suspects Provident, Welcome etc.

 

No mention of the 300% APR interest rates that some of these people charge and the fact that some people are squeezed into a situating by the policy of lenders and this government into having to entertain such loans.

 

Where the legislation to get is rid of these loan sharks? Why aren’t they being targeted for attention by a government bill instead of the poor shmo that is hoodwinked or forced by sheer necessity into using their services?

 

These people not only remorselessly rob the people they do business with but the suck the money out of the micro economy of the community they operate in, creating ghettos of poverty and despair. I know I am may be going off the subject now but if you think about it is all a symptom of the same disease the ever widening gap between rich and poor and the less well of being preyed on by the wealthy.

 

Peter

[Guest Battleaxe]

Peter,

 

I have to agree with you about this programme. It is a waste of time and does get your blood boiling.

 

If this government lets that Bill go through I hope one day they will be at the mercy of these state sponsored thugs.

 

I have kept quiet on this issue for sometime.

 

My grandmother was the victim of the so called Bailiffs, not here in England but in Australia, Sydney to be exact and this happened about 40 years ago.

 

Nanna answered a knock on her door and this massive man was standing there, burst into a torrent of abuse and tried to force his way in, Nanna all 4feet 9 inches of her and seven stone wringing wet, did her best to keep him out, my grandfather had the nouse to ring me and I only lived three houses away, so I came down the street and entered the house via the back door. He knocked Nanna down and then punched my granfather, (both of them in their late 70's). I picked up a kitchen knife, he backed off, then he swung around and smacked me across the face. I thried to jump on his back. It ended up in court, he acted innocent and claimed I tore the the shirt of his back. Wrong house, wrong people. The magistrate sentenced him to three months and loss of licence.

 

This is what is going to happen if this Bill goes through. I must admit the laws back home did have an overhaul, but not enough.