Fox Mulder vs First Direct *** WON! ***

[Fox Mulder]

Hi everyone

 

I sent my initial letter from the template to First Direct in November along with my £10 fee. I got a reply within a week promising all statements would be sent by signed-for delivery and enclosing the £10 postal order I had sent to them, with explanation that they don't charge for providing the information.

 

However, it was several weeks before the statements arrived--just as I was on the verge of chasing them up.

 

With Christmas I wasn't able to devote sufficient time to beginning my claim proper but have now begun, today, with the preliminary letter drafted from the provided (and fantastic) templates. I removed the stuff relevant to default notices as I've never had any from First Direct--it's all bounced debits, overdraft fees.

 

I am going through my statements marking off any charges FD has made, and also making sure I deduct from the tally those charges that have been intermittently repaid in part (when this has happened, I have, for example, been given £30 back when complaining about £150 charges!). At no stage did I ever accept any partial repayments as anything approaching final settlement, nor did I make any promises not to pursue the remaining amounts. So I think I am okay there.

 

At the end of these calculations, I am sure I am going to have one heck of a shock both positive and negative. Negative, in that it's going to be a lot of money over the past three years I've had taken from the account; positive, in that I am now going to claim it all back.

 

I will keep this thread I have started updated so that I may be able to give others a sense of the timeline and any obstacles and encouragements I come across.

 

I would appreciate any and all helpful input, and want to thank everyone who contributes to and maintains this site.

 

Thanks!

[Fox Mulder]

Okay, I've done my calculations. It worked out just under £2,900 including interest to date. I won't use precise figures in case of banks monitoring.

 

I used the Standard Overdraft Rate for Cheque Accounts, which is 18.37 per cent, to calculate interest. In my spreadsheet, I've got columns for the items, the charges per item, the interest, the charge plus interest, and a cumulative column. This means if they make any part-payments in an attempt to dissuade going for the full amount, I can easily total up from the earliest charges how many to remove as I go on to claim the rest outstanding.

 

I know to make it clear any part-payments will not be accepted as final settlement, and that only the item, charge per item, and interest column need go to the bank attached to the letter.

 

Now the letter has to go off tomorrow, signed-for delivery. And then it's wait and see. I will report back here as and when I have more news... x

[Clare_L]

Good luck Mulder!

[Fox Mulder]

Thanks so much! I got a standard form letter, I think, back today. It was from a 'Maureen Watson' in 'Credit Services Customer Relations'. It said:

 

***********************

 

Thank you for your recent letter.

 

I am sorry to learn of your concerns and I will ensure that a full investigation takes place. Please be assured that you will receive a response shortly, certainly within the next ten working days.

 

For your information, I have enclosed a copy of our leaflet 'listening to your comments', which provides further details about the bank's complaints procedure.

 

***********************

 

Now, they seem confused. I'm not making a complaint. I am neither assured nor do I care that she is sorry. And I am not interested in an investigation, that's for them if they want to do one. Put simply, I've made the demand for payment, in accordance with all the advice from this site, with the interest calculated correctly, with a clear 14 day deadline for the bank to respond to that letter properly and with a settlement offer.

 

They either do or they don't, in which case the next letter goes out giving them one more 14 day period.

 

No ifs, no buts, no B*S. Am I too harsh here? Am I missing anything?

 

The leaflet is a limp joke.

 

I take it I ignore this letter and keep the clock ticking down?

[Clare_L]

Dont worry, I had the same, just continue as you are and follow the guidelines set out on this site, you cant go wrong that way!

 

Clare

[Fox Mulder]

Thanks Claire. The goodwill on this site is amazing. I only hope I can be of such help to others over time.

 

I am posting the following link, to another section of the forum where I have been posting in relation to disability benefits being taken by the bank in respect of charges, leaving me with nothing to live on.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/36790-bank-taking-your-benefits-5.html#post550586

 

As it's a sideline from my primary action against FD, I thought it would be useful to cross-reference. My (currently) two posts on the benefit situation are (at time of writing) at the very end of that forum section, as there are lots of contributions thereon. x

[johnwilsonstorey]

I was forced into a corner by Nat west and they let me with no money to live on. These 'suits' dont live in the real world and seem completely devoid of all reality.

If you havent any alternative may I suggest you do as I did and open a Post Office Card account,get your money paid in there, this way you can be certain that you will recieve all your money. Phone the relevent DSS officies and until the post office ac is open they will pay by Giro This will give you some breathing space and if there are any payments imminent ask the DSS to recall them and tell them why you need to be paid by giro

I know that you have posted relevent info on other threads,the moderators can only help you properly if you keep all the posts to one thread. I hope I am of help to you

[Fox Mulder]

I have a Smile account (Co-Op) which I could switch to having my benefits paid into, though I am quite prepared to send out fortnightly letters of appropriation to them to ensure (a) they don't keep doing this anymore and (b) are in clear line of fire for any action taken against them, if they choose to defy those letters. A part of me thinks, this will hopefully make them less inclined to abuse those on benefits in the future besides myself.

 

You are indeed of great help, and I am very grateful for your input, and everyone's. Thank you!

[Fox Mulder]

I know that you have posted relevent info on other threads,the moderators can only help you properly if you keep all the posts to one thread. I hope I am of help to you

 

The reason I cross-reference is because this is primarily the thread I created to deal specifically with my claim for all charges against FD - the other forum I am contributing to specifically because it's all about claiming back benefit payments wrongly taken, and that aspect of things is in many ways a separate issue. Benefits as such certainly don't come up in my preliminary approach letter, but rather charges overall.

 

So, FD charges claim in the FD section but benefits taken by FD in the benefits taken section, as it might help (and I might be helped by) others thereon with regard to that stuff.

[Fox Mulder]

Well, I got a response with an offer of final settlement yesterday from First Direct - they sent it on the very last day of the 14 day period following the first demand for payment sent to them.

 

They have offered me just over £1,600 but for that, I have to sign away my right to make further claim and accept it as final settlement. They enclosed a form for me to sign.

 

No way. My claim is for just over £3,000. So my question is, how do I respond to this offer? I know I don't sign, but how do I approach it? They make no reference to how the monies would be paid, or when.

 

Do I just ignore the letter and write the second? Or do I state that amount would be accepted as a partial contribution to the final settlement, and if the money is paid to me, I would deduct it from the balance claimed?

 

Any help would be appreciated as always! They certainly play sly but I'm surprised they've responded, to be honest, with an immediate offer albeit a derisory one. While admitting no liability, of course. What, they think I'm going to think I'm in the wrong and they're just going to give me money for writing to them?

[dubliner10]

Hi Fox - they did exactly the same to me. I'm after the same amount. Received a offer for £1600 after two weeks which I rejected and another offer for £1900 which again I rejected.

Go to this link it has the letter template you need and I used (twice!).

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/25716-rejecting-offers.html

 

It's scary turning down money isn't it, but might as well get all your money back.

 

Dubliner

 

PS If this has been useful click the scales of justice below my name on the left

[bookmark1976]

This happened to me too. I wrote back accepting as part payment and that I wanted the rest. I then sent my LBA and they sent another letter offering me the full amount (just under £3000). All in all it took 5 weeks.

 

Hang on in there - you WILL get it all!

 

BM

 

PS If this has been useful click the scales of justice below my name on the left

[Stornoway]

This happened to me too. I wrote back accepting as part payment and that I wanted the rest. I then sent my LBA and they sent another letter offering me the full amount (just under £3000). All in all it took 5 weeks.

 

Hang on in there - you WILL get it all!

 

BM

 

PS If this has been useful click the scales of justice below my name on the left

Bookmark, did your claim include interest ?

[bookmark1976]

No, I didn't. I intended to wait until it went to court stages. However it never went that far!!

[Stornoway]

my claim includes interest and they are saying that they dont pay interest refunds, they are currently offering about 90% of the value of the charges.

[Fox Mulder]

Hi everyone! First, let me start by saying thank you so much for your input, it's hugely appreciated.

 

It's good to know this £1,600 offer is pretty formula - I was worried after reading they usually offer 80 per cent, and their offer to me to date is less than that.

 

My letter before action is ready, as is my upwardly-revised statement (as other charges have gone on since the first one). I'm posting it Monday - only because the bank took all my disability benefits, aagh, and I don't have cash to send out a signed-for letter until then. Still, a few days won't be too long to wait...

 

dubliner10: Scary? Absolutely! It's very weird saying no to that kind of cash... And ta for the link!

 

Stornoway: My claim includes interest too, charged at their advertised authorised overdraft rate of 18.37 per cent. I think what they are saying to you is, um, BS basically. I read elsewhere on the site it is entirely legitimate in the eyes of the court to claim interest, and doing so on the authorised overdraft rate is considered reasonable - claiming the higher unauthorised rate would be seen as greedy and work against a claimaint.

 

The reason it's valid to claim interest is because of whenever they took the money. My claim spreadsheet calculates interest per item on that rate I quote about - for example, a £30 charge incurred three years ago would be a lot more in real terms today because of the interest you could have accrued on it were it not taken from you, than a £30 charge taken yesterday.

 

What stage are you at? I'd issue the claim. The only bit that confuses me on that stage - not having got there yet - is how we switch to 8 per cent, and why? As in, do we reach a point at which we stop calculating using the unauthorised overdraft rate, take that 'final' figure and then from that calculate 8 per cent of the total amount, including the interest we're claiming?

 

Sheesh. It's as confusing to write about as it is to understand!

[johnwilsonstorey]

Thanks for the click hope I have helped

John

[dubliner10]

Yup Fox, thanks for the click, and good luck. I filed my MCoL today, time to sit back and wait now.

[Fox Mulder]

You certainly have. I'm now waiting on the end of the 2nd 14 day period, then I'm gonna file the MCOL faster than you ever see a policeman arrive at the scene of a crime, that's for sure!

[johnwilsonstorey]

I hope you dont mind me commenting but you have in past postings you have implied that you are on benefits.

If I am correct in my assumption then you may not have to pay for your court action, but this can only be done at your local Court not on line.

You will need a letter from the benefit people dated within the last 28 days showing what benefits you recieve and you will need a form N1, which can be downloaded from this site (dont forget both sides).

Then later on if you get to the AQ stage this form cost normally £100 to submit, dont assume that you are covered by the letter you took in originally. You again have to prove that you are on benefits with a letter again dated within 28 days of your submission of documents.

It seems a bit more complicated than on line but it does give you much more room for your POC.

[Fox Mulder]

Hi johnwilsonstorey

 

Yes, I am on benefits but I took a look and because my disability is a cognitive not physical one, I get incapacity not disability, and incapacity benefit claimants are liable to pay. Thank you for taking the trouble to highlight that, though. It is appreciated.

 

I needed to update my claim details here. I gave FD one final chance to settle at £3k, told them not to bother offering anything less as it would be considered frivolous given the sum claimed - the last offer was for a tiny amount over 2k. My offer was ignored - no response at all. Well, I did get a response - a letter telling me I was over my overdraft limit with a warning, this time, to basically watch it. Never had one of those before, not a warning. Notice, yes, warning, no.

 

I took this as quite insulting, to be honest.

 

I filed my court claim this week, having given the bank a fairly long time to communicate and act reasonably. As soon as I get my claim number I will update the relevant forum for the moderators' records.

 

I downloaded the N1 as it gave, as you say, much more room for what needed to be said. I was, however, as concise and to-the-point as possible. I had worked out two possibles, one being the claim with contractual interest and the other with 8 per cent interest. I gave the court the second as an alternative only, as per advice in these forums.

 

The particulars of claim were tough to work out and be confident I'd got them right, which I am. Getting the forms ready to send out took three hours. But it was time well spent. I'm now just waiting to hear back from the court, and who knows - maybe FD will finally see I am serious, and try to settle before court.

 

I can't help but wonder if FD didn't take me seriously because the bank knows I am on a low income, and perhaps thought I wouldn't fork out on court costs. I see some others had to go far less a distance to get what was theirs by right, and wonder why I am having to go as far as I am...

[Fox Mulder]

My claim was issued 24 April, court sent it first class 24 April, deemed to be served 26 April, FD has until 10 May to reply.

 

I've incurred charges since submitting my claim. Over £100. If the bank does attempt to settle before court, should I demand that all charges including those made since submission be paid? Or if a full offer of the claim is paid by them, including my court fees, simply accept that and then start the process all over again to reclaim the charges that weren't covered by my court application?

[givememymoney]

You can try to get these additonal included when you agree a settlement but most likely you will need to start a second claim

[Fox Mulder]

Thanks for the tip, I had a feeling that might be the case. If they do try to settle I will bring up the monies they are continuing to take after the claim went in - it's about £200 now - and if I have to start all over again after one successful claim, at least finding the court monies won't be the hardship they've been first time round.

 

Am now about to start reading through for prepping my court bundle....

[Fox Mulder]

Well, FD has notified the court it intends to file a defence and I've heard nothing directly from them. In the meantime, they've deducted nearly 200 in charges since the court papers went to them. I'm noting everything in a new spreadsheet.

 

Question: Can I start a new action against FD for the latest batch of penalty fees before the first court action has reached a conclusion? In other words, could I send them a prelim demand for payment letter today for the new amount?