jim74bob V Abbey

[jim74bob]

Problem! I have had a crash on my computer and lost my schedule of charges data. I have tried to reproduce it from the data but it doesnt tie up with the figures I have by small amounts. Probably I made a mistake somewhere. Can I ask the bank for a copy, or should I resubmit the schedule of charges and tell Abbey and the court there was an error on the original?

[Michael Browne]

The small amounts may be additional 8% interest since you filed at court since the s/s updates itself to todays date.

 

Click on the time in your taskbar and set the date to the date you filed at court. Open the s/s and print off. Reset date.

HTH

[jim74bob]

Thanks Michael Browne I was getting in a right panick, this worked out ok, backdated to 7 th April

[jim74bob]

I am trying to get the Nicole Rich report, but the link just directs me to a business website. Anybody got a copy?

[Robdblynd]

If you get one, please let me know cos I've looked everywhere and can't find it. As you say, the link goes to a business site, which is very frustrating.

[jim74bob]

I have this, but I believe there is another which details calculated costs, so I am still looking, let me know if you have any luck

 

MEDIA RELEASE

 

Embargoed until Tuesday, 21 December 2004

 

AUSTRALIAN BANKS MAKING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS EACH YEAR FROM UNLAWFUL FEES?

A ground-breaking report released today by Australia’s leading consumer advocacy organisation, the Consumer Law Centre Victoria, reveals that Australian banks are slugging consumers hundreds of millions of dollars in fees that could be unlawful.

The potentially unlawful fees are known as “penalty fees”. Penalty fees are charged by banks to their customers when a customer is in “breach” of their contract with the bank. Common examples of penalty fees include cheque or direct debit dishonour fees, account overdrawn fees and credit card late payment fees. The average cost of these fees is between $25-$50.

“This is the most significant investigation into so-called bank ‘penalty fees’ ever undertaken in Australia. The results are shocking and confirm similar studies undertaken overseas,” said Chris Field, Executive Director, Consumer Law Centre Victoria.

“In Australia, it is a well-established legal principle that a fee charged by a company upon a customer’s breach is lawful only where the fee is a genuine estimate of the costs to the company that result from the breach. Where the fee is exorbitant, extravagant or out of all proportion to the actual cost, it is an unlawful penalty,” said Nicole Rich, author of the report and Supervising Solicitor, Consumer Law Centre Victoria. “Bank penalty fees charge consumers exorbitant sums of money in comparison to what it actually costs banks to process these breaches,” said Ms Rich.

“We estimate that Australian banks could be charging consumers cheque dishonour fees between 5 to 16 times what it costs them to process a cheque dishonour,” said Ms Rich. “Direct debit dishonours are even worse – Australian banks could be charging direct debit dishonour fees between 64 to 92 times what it costs them to process the dishonour. Banks claim that they charge penalty fees to cover the cost to them of processing a customer’s default, but the penalty fees they charge are excessive and out of all proportion to their costs,” Ms Rich said.

Ms Rich added, “Australian banks could be generating hundreds of millions of dollars in profit each year from penalty fees. It is difficult to make an accurate assessment because Australian banks do not disclose any information about penalty fees”.

The report, Unfair fees: A report into penalty fees charged by Australian banks, also finds that the cost of penalty fees is not shared fairly among consumers. Low-income consumers, those least able to afford penalty fees, bear the biggest share of the cost because they are not able to avoid penalty fees.

“Penalty fees can have a devastating impact on low-income consumers, contributing to their ongoing financial exclusion,” said Ms Rich.

The report finds that competition in the Australian banking market has not been effective in restraining penalty fees.

 

“Penalty fees represent a failure in the operation of competition,” said Mr Field. “Competition in the Australian financial services sector has largely been a significant success and brought undoubted benefits to the majority of Australian consumers. If penalty fees cannot be made efficient through competitive discipline then we are failing to maximise the benefits of effective competition.”

The report makes several recommendations to tackle the problem of penalty fees, including that:

• Australian banks provide information to consumers about their costs in processing customer defaults and the income they earn from penalty fees;

• Australian banks offer a truly low-cost Basic Bank Account to low-income consumers that does not levy excessive penalty fees; and

• The Reserve Bank of Australia undertake a comprehensive study of penalty fees charged by Australian financial institutions.

“Penalty fees may be distorting the market for payment systems and represent excessive, inefficient profits to the banks,” said Mr Field. “The Reserve Bank of Australia has the power to force Australian banks to disclose information about the penalty fees they charge. An investigation into penalty fees is the logical next step for the Reserve Bank to take following its investigation into interchange fees and subsequent reforms,” Mr Field said.

For further information contact:

Nicole Rich 9629 6300 or 0417 348 571

Chris Field 9629 6901 or 0419 598 836

[Robdblynd]

http://www.consumeraction.org.au/downloads/DL56.pdf

 

This any use?? See Appendix A

[jim74bob]

Good stuff tks

[jim74bob]

I am still putting together my bundle, do I need to include their defense?, it was sent with a letter labeled "Without prejudice", and the court sent me a copy of the same without the letter. If so do I put it under the Statements section?

[Robdblynd]

You include the defence but no the 'without prejudice' letter.

 

I have kept all the court related documents together ie the copy N1 with covering letters and the defence.

 

Statements I've put in other section.

 

Just makes it clearer if you need to look for anything.

[jim74bob]

Looking at the basic bundle, an item on the front cover is SOGA1982, I have had a look at supply of goods act and have failed to see any item in there relevant to charges. am I looking at the wrong thing or have I missed something??? help

[Michael Browne]

It's relevant if the bank is claiming that their charges are fees for a service as opposed to penalties

[jim74bob]

Hello all

 

Just received a letter from the court but I don't understand what they are saying. I was expecting to receive a request for my court bundle but I got the below. I was worried that it meant the judge had already made up its mind, but wasn't sure if it implied one way or the other.

 

Enlightenment would be good. Help!!!

 

Before DEPUTY DISTRICT JUDGE MATTHEWS sitting at Portsmouth County Court, Courts of Justice, Winston Churchill Avenue, Portsmouth, Hampshire, P01 2EB.

 

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

1. Matter be listed to consider tracking and appropriate directions on the 22nd August 2007 at 12:00 noon at Portsmouth County Court, Winston Churchill Avenue, Portsmouth, Hampshire P01 2EB time estimate 20 minutes.

Dated 14 June 2007

[elliejay39]

Hi,

you're way ahead of me as i will be filing N1 in couple of weeks or so (funds allowing0 This sounds like a diretions hearing and I have no practical expereince of this yet but you may find the following link useful to read until someone with more expereince shows up. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/guidance-notes/64911-got-court-date-guide.html

 

Good luck

Ellie

[jim74bob]

Thanks Elliejay, had a look at your link and think you're right, worries over temporarily

JB

[Robdblynd]

It's definitely a directions hearing.

 

Nothing you need to do yet.

[jim74bob]

Thanks for the confirmation Roblynd

[jim74bob]

I've had a look at the stuff suggested by Ellie, http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/guidance-notes/64911-got-court-date-guide.html

and the witness statement looks good with minor modifications. Should I send this to the court for their consideration or just take it with me??

and if I send it, do I send it to the judge or the court?

[noobrider]

Probably best if you read my thread regarding directions hearings. They are nothing to worry about but you dont need to take any documentation with you other than the draft directions. Chances are abbey wont even turn up so your directions will be granted and within 2 weeks of the hearing you will be settled. If abbey do turn up or more likely submit their stuff by post, then they have a habit of submitting exactly the same directions. Essentially it will mean that you have to prepare court bundles but by the time it comes for them to submit their documents they will have contacted you to settle.

[jim74bob]

Hi Noobrider

Thanks for the info, I just looked at your abbey thread, bit of a saga, several ups and downs and very interesting you might get a publisher to print it, make lots of dosh and be rich LOL.

I just get confused, seems a lot of data to absorb and abbey dont make it easy.

Has Abbey actually defended in court yet?? if not I was thinking of maybe using it in evidence what do you think?

[noobrider]

check to see if its a telephone hearing if so they have to arrange it and they wont and no they have never turned up

[jim74bob]

Hello all

Looking at the draft order for directions part (d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

Is this list of settled cases or is there a list of court decisions I can use? The other thing is Noobrider says check if it is a telephone hearng, wont this be on the on the order for tracking and directions (doesnt say) or do I need to phone the court to find out.

Thanks all for your help

[noobrider]

It would clearly state if it was a telphone hearing.

[jim74bob]

Hello all

Just recieved an answer to the directions hearing and dont know what to do regarding item 2 any advice welcome.

 

 

Before DISTRICT JUDGE CAWOOD sitting at Portsmouth County Court, Courts of Justice, Winston Churchill

Avenue, Portsmouth, Hampshire, P01 2EB.

 

UPON HEARING Counsel for the defendant and reading the letter of 14 August 2007 from the Claimant

AND UPON it appearing that the issues in this case are to be considered in litigation commenced by the Office of Fair Trading against certain banks in the High Court of Justice, Commercial Court, 2007 Folio 1186, to be heard during January and/or February 2008 ("the OFT test case")

AND UPON the Court of its own initiative pursuant to CPR Part 3.3

IT IS. ORDERED THAT

1. The claim be stayed forthwith pending the final determination of the OFT test case. Such final determination shall include any appeal

2. Permission to apply to lift the stay or to set aside or vary this order within 28 days of the service of the same. Any application shall be on notice to all Other parties and shall be supported by a statement setting out why this claim should proceed before the final determination of the OFT test case Any such application shall be listed before the Designated Civil Judge sitting at Winchester unless specifically released by him

3 Unless the Court has already given directions, any party may and the Defendant shall, within three months of the final determination of the OFT test case, apply for directions for the future conduct of this action. Such directions shall be sought from a District or Deputy District Judge sitting at the County Court where the claim is proceeding

Dated 22 August2007

The date in the box at the top right of this form is the date on which this order was drawn.up. The date on which the Judge made the order is set out above.

If you require assistance then please consult Community Legal Service Direct by telephoning 0845 345 4 345 all calls are charged at local rate. Alternatively you can log on to their website at Community Legal Service Direct .

 

 

 

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