e-bay item gone AWOL, i'm being sued

[Dave777]

OK quick background

 

I sold a bugaboo on E**bay

 

Buyer paid £410

 

Sent Royal Mail, but buyer only wanted standard posting cost (£25) GOt proof of posting.

 

Bugaboo went AWOL

 

Royal Mail only cover item to £100 as good will gesture as insurance not taken out.

 

some auction site buyer takes me to small claims for £410 - time claim was recieved we had moved address - new owners sent court doc's 3 weeks after case was heard - no I never got to file a defence.

 

Today I have recieved a warrant for £640 as judgment has not been paid.

 

So if I pay this i'm not only minus the bugaboo, but £230.

 

So ? for you do I file a claim for losses I have suffered as a result or suffer the loss & learn not to send goods via post again.

 

Royal Mail have confirmed that they made a payment to the reciever for £150 as the item was lost by them - so the person had made a claim for that as well as the small claim.

 

Many Thanks

[dw190]

OK quick background

 

I sold a bugaboo on E**bay

 

Buyer paid £410

 

Sent Royal Mail, but buyer only wanted standard posting cost (£25) GOt proof of posting.

 

Bugaboo went AWOL

 

Royal Mail only cover item to £100 as good will gesture as insurance not taken out.

 

some auction site buyer takes me to small claims for £410 - time claim was recieved we had moved address - new owners sent court doc's 3 weeks after case was heard - no I never got to file a defence.

 

Today I have recieved a warrant for £640 as judgement has not been paid.

 

So if I pay this i'm not only minus the bugaboo, but £230.

 

So ? for you do I file a claim for loses I have suffered as a result or suffer the loss & learn not to send goods via post again.

 

Royal Mail have confirmed that they made a payment to the reciever for £150 as the item was lost by them - so the person had made a claim for that as well as the small claim.

 

Many Thanks

 

You can make an application to the court to have the Judgement set aside as you never received the original claim and had no chance of defending.

[buzby]

However do watch out, as the court may side with the buyer, irrespective of your views of insurance, you due have a duty of care to ensure the goods get to the seller. The transit insurance is for YOUR protection, not the buyer, so you under-insured it. It will also cost you to have the judgement set-aside and for the case to be re-heard, so you might be thowing good money after bad.

[Bookworm]

The set-aside is highly likely to be granted to you, as the over-riding objective is that both parties should be able to present their side of the story. Effectively, since you didn't have a chance to defend, the judge should grant a set-aside.

 

Secondly, if recipient has received £150 from RM, he can not pursue you for that part as well, so it seems his claim is partly wrong anyway.

 

However, ultimately, it is your responsability to insure against loss, as the goods remain yours until safely received. I am actually surprised that the other side managed to obtain money from RM, as the contract was between you and RM, not him.

[dazzaboy2]

What on earth is a bugaboo?

[BankFodder]

Actually I think that you will find that unless you are affected by the Distance Selling Regulations, your only duty is to dispatch the goods.

Carriage is at the purchaser's risk unless otherwise agreed at the time of the contract.

From what you say in your opening post it would seem that you even discussed the method of delivery with the purchaser and he decided to choose the cheaper option.

If you are subject to the distance selling Regs - which I think means that you would have to be operating by way of a business - even regular but informal EBay trading would count if you are not merely selling off your own private property then in principle I would say that it would be you who is responsible for ensuring safe delivery. However, it maybe that as the purchaser has made a conscious decision to opt for a cheaper and therefore high risk method that maybe the risk still reposes with him.

It needs checking out. I haven't looked at these regs for some time.

 

However, first question is your status. Private seller or trader.

 

What is your eBay ID please?

 

Second question is the liability of the Post Office. They used to be immune from action for negligence or breach of contract but I have an idea that this came to an end a couple of years ago. I would definitely consider suing them despite their insurance.

It would actually be an unfair term to disclaim liability for negligence and even for breach of contract.

 

You should start dealing with this questions and apply to setaside the judgment. Do this quickly. You need to show the court that you have acted with alacrity

 

I would aslo make it clear to the court that the purcahsers has unjustly enriched himself by claiming insurance as well as suing you for the entire amount.

It is scarcely imaginable that this could happened by way of a mistake so it must have been dishonesty.

 

I suggest a setaside and then a letter to the purchaser saying that if he continues with the action - which you will defend that you will bring the matter of his double claim to the attention of the court, the insurers and of the police.

 

What is your EBay ID?

[tim2718281]

"I would definitely consider suing them despite their insurance."

 

I don't see how the vendor can sue the Royal Mail/Parcelforce, as he has not actually lost anything ... he received £410 from the purchaser.

 

When the judgement is set aside, and the court case is heard, the vendor will argue that he is not liable as he gave the item to the Royal Mail/Parcelforce for them to deliver; and he has proof of posting.

 

If the court decides that nevertheless the vendor is liable, that judgement would seem to me to mean the Royal Mail/Parcelforce is not liable.

 

By the way, the OP asked what he should do in future. From the postage cost, I estimate the item weighed 25kg. A carrier such as DHL would have delivered this on 2/3 day delivery for about £12 without insurance, or £24 including £500 insurance.

 

I've occasionally bought heavy items on ebay (eg guitar amplifier) and arranged a courier; the sellers are often surprised at how little the courier services cost.

 

Tim

[itsamomentintime]

OK quick background

 

 

 

Sent Royal Mail, but buyer only wanted standard posting cost (£25) GOt proof of posting.

 

Bugaboo went AWOL

 

 

i have experienced the same situation, but for less money. wish i had sent it special delivery, that covers upto £1000

 

in the future, anything sent in the post that has a value of £32, send it via SD - insist on this, that way you will be covered if anything goes 'missing'

[bidstermeister]

Agreed - Always always send stuff 1st Class Recorded (for items under £32) or Special Delivery for costly items. Never ordinary 1st/2nd or Standard Parcels. Take the time to find out the postage cost first - RM's site does this quite easily for you... Put the postage price on your listings so that everything is shown up-front.

[rosiecotton]

Your status is important here as the Sale of Goods Act states that "delivery to the carrier is not delivery to the consumer" i.e. simply posting it is not proof of delivery to the customer. I would feel that this would only apply if you are a trader, I will need to double check this as it's not specifically worded in this way.

[Dave777]

Thanks for the great advice. I am definately a private seller, it's only the third thing i've sold on e-bay in 3 years!

 

I have made an application to have the judgment set aside. It cost £65 (i think).

[Stornoway]

I'm not sure on this but ....if you cant get it set aside then does this count as a CCJ with all the horrendous implications for your credit file ? If it does it might be worth thinking about paying the £630 to the court asap (presumably if you pay this within 1 month then the CCJ isnt registered).

[Dave777]

I'm not sure on this but ....if you cant get it set aside then does this count as a CCJ with all the horrendous implications for your credit file ? If it does it might be worth thinking about paying the £630 to the court asap (presumably if you pay this within 1 month then the CCJ isnt registered).

 

It surely has to be set aside. I didn't receive a summons.

 

There is no way I'm paying £630. I am happy to repay this individual what they have lost, but no more.

[Stornoway]

I dont want to be a scaremonger but you should get some professional advice - do you have a union or have you paid for legal protection cover under your home or car insurance ?

[Dave777]

I dont want to be a scaremonger but you should get some professional advice - do you have a union or have you paid for legal protection cover under your home or car insurance ?

 

Thanks for your views but I would deem the advice I have been given above, from Bankfodder and Bookworm, to be professional.

 

I have sworn that I did not receive a summons, and can't see why I will not have my application granted.

[Stornoway]

Hey there's no point in twisting my words ....I'm only advising you to be careful. You do what you think is best.

[dollies01]

Bugaboo = Babies buggy

expensive one at that !

[Dave777]

Stornoway, I'm not twisting your words, but it would seem from your comments that the advice I have been given is not sufficient.

 

If you were in the same position, would you ignore all the advice that I have been given and not go ahead to apply to get the judgment set aside?

 

The whole purpose of this website (in return for a small donation if successful) is to obtain expert advice and so cut out the sometimes costly fees charged by "professionals".

 

I have read hundreds of posts on this site and most replies seem pretty professional to me. I would like to point out as well that you are the only person in this thread, alongside the people that have given advice work, that has actually suggested it might be worth while paying the £630 to avoid a CCJ. Please don't be upset for not taking your advice.

 

I would suggest a little more respect to the owners and helpers of this site is due. No offence meant, and thanks for your opinion.

[Stornoway]

Stornoway, I'm not twisting your words, but it would seem from your comments that the advice I have been given is not sufficient.

 

If you were in the same position, would you ignore all the advice that I have been given and not go ahead to apply to get the judgment set aside?

 

The whole purpose of this website (in return for a small donation if successful) is to obtain expert advice and so cut out the sometimes costly fees charged by "professionals".

 

I have read hundreds of posts on this site and most replies seem pretty professional to me. I would like to point out as well that you are the only person in this thread, alongside the people that have given advice work, that has actually suggested it might be worth while paying the £630 to avoid a CCJ. Please don't be upset for not taking your advice.

 

I would suggest a little more respect to the owners and helpers of this site is due. No offence meant, and thanks for your opinion.

Sorry Dave but you have twisted my words - I never once even came close to implying that the advice you have been given is unprofessional - note that my comment about the CCJ came after BF and Bookworm had posted (I have the greatest respect for these individuals), i.e. my point was a new one not something contradicting what was said previously.

 

At this point I think we should go our separate ways as I need a cold beer. I therefore solemnly swear never to reply to one of your posts again.

[BankFodder]

As you are a private seller then yuo need to consutl the sale of goods act - a copy of which is linked in the library.

Alsio double check the distance selling regs to make sure that you are not affected. I don't think that you are - but check anyway.

 

In order to get a setaside you will have to satisfy the judge that you have a good reason fro not defending - such as non receipt of the claim and alo that if the judgment is setaside that you have a good chance of succeeding ni your claim.

 

This means that you must prepare and be certain of your case before you go for the setaside.

 

If you do not prepare, even if you get the setaside you may not be ale to put in a good defence.

 

One of the terms fo the setaside will be that you file defence wihtin 14 days of the setaside.

You should be ready for this - BEFORE THE SETASIDE.

 

If you want me to monitor the progress of what yuo are doing you will have to pm me a link each time you respond to this thread.

Also please be aware that sometimes I simply don't get the time to deal with these things at all - so don't get too frustrated.

[BankFodder]

The whole purpose of this website (in return for a small donation if successful) is to obtain expert advice and so cut out the sometimes costly fees charged by "professionals".

 

This is not correct. There is no element of exchange or of the conditional giving of advice here.

 

Advice is offered to anyone who asks for it - as is the forum facility.

 

We are happy to receive donations if people wish to make them but there is no expectation of any recompense for the service provided by this site.

[Dave777]

Thank you. I will keep you posted.

 

Stornaway, sorry if I caused you offense, I didn't mean to. I just got frustrated with the comment suggesting that I pay the full amount.

 

This individual has already claimed £150 from RM and wants another £630 from me, totalling £780! This is completely unreasonable compensation for a claim that I never got to defend. After I research the relevant regulations, ultimately the onus may be on myself to compensate. But not for this ridiculous amount.

[Dave777]

This is not correct. There is no element of exchange or of the conditional giving of advice here.

 

Advice is offered to anyone who asks for it - as is the forum facility.

 

We are happy to receive donations if people wish to make them but there is no expectation of any recompense for the service provided by this site.

 

I apologise. I was not citing this as if it was a condition of the forum, just merely my own opinion that good advice resulting in a successful claim should warrant the receipient to make a donation of some kind toward the upkeep of the forum.

[MrShed]

Sorry to join the debate, but there is a difference between "professional" and "accurate". I think dave has misunderstood the two. In this context, I would say that BW and BF's posts are NOT professional, as they have not been given in the course of their profession, and as such are not accountable for it. However, they may or may not be accurate. I have to say I agree with Stornoway in that professional advice would be advantageous in this situation, in order to acquire a professional with whom you can have recourse in the event of incorrect advice. This is not a 100% straightforward case.

[petrafyde]

Just my twopenneth.

 

I've done a lot of eBay selling, and pride myself on adhering to general "courtesy" rules aswell as DSR's (distance selling regulations) and using them to my advantage when possible!

 

IMHO, you made a serious error by not insuring that parcel. We all learn by our lessons though, unfortunately yours has been more expensive.

 

There is no way, you can deny that it is your fault, per se - simply because, if it was worth more than the service you used via Royal Mail (or whatever carrier) then you should've insured it - at the buyers cost, not your own!

 

Some people use the box for request for insurance, I don't. I include it in my shipping fees and give them no option.

 

I also state I will claim it for them, in the event of loss - because I insure everything, and know full well the buyer can claim the insurance, THEN accuse me of theft/losing the item in question.

 

For all you know, that buyer could have that pram aswell. Even if its been classed as signed for, some posties will just sign it for the house-owner if they know them, and leave it by the door or whatever. In which case you need to contact Royal Mail AND the purchaser/claimant.

 

It stinks in all honesty, but its the only way to play selling on ebay if you do not want to lose money.

 

On the other hand though, I would bring the claimants honesty into question via whatever means possible "court-wise" as they have knowingly, claimed that £150 twice.

 

Wishing you lots of luck with getting that £150 back. Also, if you claim yourself to Royal Mail, you should get at least the carriage costs back, because they lost it!