The "what do I do now" post.

[isidore]

I don't know if I'm imagining it, but does there seem to be more and more people wading in without know what they're doing?

 

I don't know whether it's because I now spend more time helping others but there seems to be LOADS of people who ask the same old boring questions day in day out.

 

I've been really amazed at the amount of people I've seen lately, who have gone down the wrong road or have taken one or two steps but don't know what to do next. It's scary!!

 

I get the impression that many people register under the idea that they need to do little work to get their money back. Then get worried that they might have to go to court in 14 days and know NOTHING about what to expect.

 

How could be improved? CAN it be improved?

 

Just looking for a bit of debate really. Would be interesting to hear from a newby who might not know what they're doing to see why they have difficulty learning the process.

 

Would there be benefit from having a briefer welcome page (ie the page you get directed to after registering) with links to the most important pages (like the step by step guide)? Does this happen anyway?

 

Don't mean to offend anyone, just trying to pull together some ideas to help the newbies.

[Bookworm]

Welcome to my world!!!

 

We have been trying to work out an answer to that question for nearly 1 year now.

 

I think you'll always have different types of people: Me, I wouldn't dream of taking on a multinational with unlimited pots of cash on a legal basis without being very sure I knew what I was on about...

Then there's the people who really think that one, maybe two letters, and they'll have all their dosh back... Guess who gets disappointed the most???

[isidore]

I'm not surprised you're first in with a response

 

I'd have to agree, I read for about a month before I sent any letters off. It scares me how little some people know and they are saying "help I'm in court"!!!

 

Just curious as to what could be done about it. I'd have thought it's in EVERYONE'S interests to try and improve it as it means the newbies would know more, the more experienced will have to deal with simple posts less etc etc.

 

One idea I had, though I don't know whether it's within the capablilites of your site, is I was one registered to a forum that had the majority of it's areas locked to new members until they had made x posts, or had been regsitered for a certain amount of time (I can't remember exactly which one it was, one or the other - suppose it has the same effect).

 

By doing that you can manipulate what the newbie reads to start with by only giving them access to certain areas of reading how to's, step by steps, court claim guides etc etc forcing them to do a bit of work.

 

The obvious disadvantage is making a large set of areas invisible to the guest user and therefore reducing the site's exposure, but then is that what you are after? A larger less informed head count, or a smaller knowledgable one.......

[bill-k]

I myself have only made a few small claims, as I am in an IVA and limited in what I can acquire. So I flit about the threads that I have an interest in for my future claims, and try and help with what little I've learned so far. I have never got past AQ, yet or taken one into court, so I tend to keep out of the "big boy's" discussions these days, and find myself trying to help newbies & Basics understand contractual interest and the initial claim steps. I should really get down to the Arrivals Lounge and welcome a few, but I never make it.

 

I'm trying to get some ready-made copy & pastes to save repetition, and I have been putting these links in where I think it appropriate. I hope it helps, but haven't been doing it for long, so not much feedback.

 

Beginners' Steps:-

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/post-475208.html

Trouble finding stuff? Michael Browne's A-Z Guide:-

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/site-questions-suggestions/53182-cant-find-what-youre.html#post436526

Spready guide:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/post-50088.html

Vampiress’s Google Chambers:

https://www.google.com/accounts/ServiceLogin?service=wise&passive=true&nui=1&continue=http%3A%2F%2Fspreadsheets.google.com%2Fccc%3Fnew

[OldBear]

Hi T4FF,

 

I've been around this forum since last July, but due to illness and other matters have only now got round to making my claims, so from that point of view I'm a newbie and can try and give you my view on your thoughts, if it will help. These are just an opinion to help along the debate, btw.

 

I don't know if I'm imagining it, but does there seem to be more and more people wading in without know what they're doing?

You're not imagining it, there are. I think it's partly because other (more experienced) members make it look so easy and are always saying things like, "don't worry, we're here when the going gets tough" or, "don't worry, you'll win". There's also the media telling people stuff like, "the law's on your side" and, "you can't lose because the banks can't win."

 

You then have a situation where some people will come here very confident of a victory, and because they partly expect it all to be done for them, they don't do much research and as you say, "just wade in."

 

I don't know whether it's because I now spend more time helping others but there seems to be LOADS of people who ask the same old boring questions day in day out.

I think that happens because some people, while actually having taken in what they have read, still like the reassurance of having the question answered personally to them, (If you know what I mean).

 

I've been really amazed at the amount of people I've seen lately, who have gone down the wrong road or have taken one or two steps but don't know what to do next. It's scary!!

See my first bit above.

 

I get the impression that many people register under the idea that they need to do little work to get their money back. You're correct. See above. Then get worried that they might have to go to court in 14 days and know NOTHING about what to expect.

I would imagine that a lot of the people in this category are the ones the Banks "win".

 

How could be improved? CAN it be improved?

 

Just looking for a bit of debate really. Would be interesting to hear from a newby who might not know what they're doing to see why they have difficulty learning the process.

I don't think it is a 'difficulty' per se; it's more about over-confidence and/or needing constant reassurance. You said it yourself, "they might have to go to court in 14 days and know NOTHING about what to expect". The only way they can be sure of what to do is to keep asking "what to do next."

 

Would there be benefit from having a briefer welcome page (ie the page you get directed to after registering) with links to the most important pages (like the step by step guide)? Does this happen anyway?

I doubt you could make things easier, for the reasons I've stated. It's posted all over the forum about reading stickies and FAQs. You still won't change the way people approach this; the constant need for re-assurance and the over-confidence of the successful are the main problems here.

 

Don't mean to offend anyone, just trying to pull together some ideas to help the newbies.

I don't think you'll offend anyone. Most people, whether newbie or not, would probably agree with you.

 

I should add.. my bit about the overconfidence of some members and of the media are not meant as a criticism. I think that attitude is, on the whole, a good thing, but I do think that because of it, the Forum Admins, Mods, Site Helpers and some of the more experienced members have to do more work. In a way, it's turned out to be a bit of a double-edged sword.

 

I hope this helps a bit.

 

OB.

 

btw. Bill, I swear I'm not stalking you.

[bill-k]

btw. Bill, I swear I'm not stalking you.

Don't apologise, OB, I fancy a bit of bear meat now & again !!

 

We have similar interests, here, I guess, and I'm obliged to you for your recent encouragement. Thank you for that excellent input above, and I take it as a reminder that a newbie is not necessarily a "thicko." I, too, spent time reading before registering and posting, and I still got a gruff "shouting at" by a bloke whose opinion here I now very much respect, when I first stumbled in through the doors. My dear mate Glenn UK, in fact.

 

We have only keyboard text to go on, here - no eye contact, no vocal inflection - and that can lead to misunderstandings. Some peeps seem damned lazy, some peeps seem illiterate, some peeps seem aggressive. But we must give them all a warm handshake (as we ourselves received)and let them bring what they have and take what they need here. I have had some lovely PM's from guys I really thought were leeches, when in fact they just really didn't know, and expressed their thanks in a way that made me glow !! I never thought this ignorant git could ever get a buzz out of helping people until now. And in doing so, I learn something, too, about human nature. I always say (and remind myself) that we're ALL wearing L-Plates, here.

 

Practicalities, then. I feel that, if newbies can see a fairly reliable structure in front of them, then they will be more likely to trust in it, and will acquire confidence by making their own CAG (and self)-motivated efforts. If they see chaos, then they will either turn away or make a half-hearted effort - in keeping with what they have seen, or managed to grasp.

 

Some kind of "streaming" might be appropriate. I believe some sites restrict newbies in their access. Maybe right, maybe wrong, but I think a certain "aiming" or "pointing" by discouragement/encouragement might be better. Those that really are "further up the food chain" can still access the higher knowledge, but those who are more timid can feel less intimidated by knowing that there is a stream for them to "float their own boat" in. I personally have been finding my place here, I think. I cannot join in the discussions by the "big boys" here, but I sure as hell like to catch the final punch-lines !! If I can help folk with some basic pointers and with getting their figures right, then I'm well pleased !! But if I come up against someone who clearly can't be @r$ed with the hassle, and expects everybody here to do it for them, then I might just get a little "brief and to the point" with them !!

 

Just the other day, I felt like some guy was really being awkward with me, and I tried my best at staying cool, and explaining. In the end, he wasn't being awkward and was just trying hard to make sense of things - he genuinely saw things differently from me. He recently thanked me for sticking at it, and eventually getting him to grasp what I was saying. It was really good to get to the end of that tunnel, and share and appreciate the light between us !!

 

I have recently been in a thread where much discussion was heard between us forum members and the mods. I came away realising how tough that job is, and I try and bear that in mind, now. Thankless task - damned if they do summat, and damned if they don't. Very little thanks, but loads of negative feedback !! I guess it's the occasional "gem" like I received above that makes it worthwhile for us all.

 

This forum is teaching me one helluva lot about human nature, as well as the law. In learning that, I am learning much about my own self, too. I would never in a million years have admitted that an online chat forum could have such an impact on me, my life, and my outlook. The older generation(s) oft bemoan the absence of that "Camaraderie" that bound people during the World Wars. I feel there is a sense of that here, and I find it warming to be able to talk to total strangers about all and sundry, under the umbrella of the one cause - reclaiming the right.

[Guest ian cognito]

I think there are several different groups of 'newbies' here, the "I want it back NOW", the "Is this for real? or yet another internet con?" the "OMG can I really take the bank on and win?" and the "If I'm gona do this I'm gonna do it properly" but basically all need the same information from the site.

 

Like Bill, I only help those when I know I can do so with confidence i.e. up to filing N1 as fortunately thats as far as I've ever gone, but having said that, I don't mind how many times I have to do it because I remember my newbie days.

 

Perhaps what we need, rather than an information filter, is a manpower filter so that those with superior knowledge don't have to spend (waste?) their time answering Q's that others are quite happy to do.

 

Also an "unanswered posts" thread might be helpful if prople have a bit of spare time to make sure nobody is ignored.

 

Oh and can i have a moan, I have seen a number of newbie posts with specific queries answered by standard cut and paste answers - don't think this helps.

[ladybird17]

This is an interesting thread - I'm new here, and came on to the site mostly out of curiosity and also to see if anyone else was encountering a similar problem to mine. They were, of course! It did take me some time to find my way aound the site - I've got the hang of the basics but still a long way to go. I have spent hours & hours reading threads - even those that weren't applicable to me personally. (In fact, I'm now possibly addicted to the site) I have even felt confident enough to give a few reasonably helpful replies. Having said all that I would add that first, I am a pretty feisty person, second, I have had a small amount (very small) of legal training, which means I have attended court (as a claimant) on numerous ocassions, and also I'm not that easily intimidated. I am really thinking out aloud here - yes the site can be confusing - but with so many users & so much info I'm not sure what could be done. Something I kept doing at first, and I wonder if this might be why so many people are coming on & asking the same basic questions over & over, is using the "generic" search button at the top of the page, which is of course a web search, but pretty much the first thing you see. It took me some time to even notice the blue toolbar - so people come on, type in to the web search bar, and don't get anywhere. Just a thought. I know how often people are told not to wade in, be patient etc...but there are a lot of wader-inners out there! So that's a view from a newbie. And keep up the sterling work!

[isidore]

Thanks for the input all. Interesting to see different ppls POV.

 

One thing I think made me start this post is the number of "read the forums" responses that appear. I think what a lot of ppl will generally not appreciate is that many people who register could and probably will have very little experience with PCs, might never heard of a forum and are only in here because they were sent here by the TV.

 

I'm a very experienced PC user and internet / forum user for as long as I remember and at times, I find it difficult to locate what I'm looking for. For example, I still can't find a breakdown / explanation on contractual interest or an account that is in dispute (I don't know if one exists tho) and have basically learnt ConInt from reading Glenn's threads and Dispute by basically asking someone, but will everyone who joins know who Glenn is, or know how to pm.

 

I know that there are the main threads like BankFodders "why isn't anyone claiming contractual interest" but many people will look at the mass of pages that this holds and wonder if it will be useful at all and will probably stop reading after post 20!! Those are just two examples but invariably the buzz words you put in a search don't come up with a valuable response because they will be used so regularly thoughout the forum. Make sense?

 

I would think a bit more work could be done by the more experienced peeps and by that I mean anyone who isn't new in adding to the FAQs, guides etc. If I was to answer a question 3-4 times in a week, perhaps I could check if it is the FAQ / guide area and if it isn't suggest it is added.

 

Another thing I like the idea of is adding a second subfolder to the each bank forum (alongside the Successes) called "Example claims" where some of the more detailed threads get put for people to read with a little note at the top saying what the claim was for and who should read it and why. Again, I do think that invariably the successes forum can be difficult to wade through at times. Not sure if this is viable or possible but just a thought......

 

 

Man do any of you SLEEP!!!

[isidore]

I've just read this on a post I'm subsribed to......

 

think my main problem is that sometimes it be quite lonely in this cyberspace, I think it because I am not a regular blog user and don't feel comfortable in them yet. One can spend a lot of time fumbling around, but actually that's how we all seem to learn in the long run.

 

This is from a "newbie", think this is what I was trying to get at, it must seem daunting for some who aren't particularly knowledgable with pcs...

[Bookworm]

Perhaps what we need, rather than an information filter, is a manpower filter so that those with superior knowledge don't have to spend (waste?) their time answering Q's that others are quite happy to do.

 

That was what the Site Helpers were made for, originally, to deal with the meeting and greeting, and help with the basic stuff. The boundaries have somewhat melted as they gather knowledge, but we still try to do that, and of course rely enormously on the more experienced non-pinks to assist as well.

 

Also an "unanswered posts" thread might be helpful if prople have a bit of spare time to make sure nobody is ignored.

 

Here's how: Search - Advanced search - search options, find threads with---> change default from "at least" to "at most" 0 replies, And there you have it. You can also search for same in specific forums, for example the "welcome" one.

 

Oh and can i have a moan, I have seen a number of newbie posts with specific queries answered by standard cut and paste answers - don't think this helps.

 

Agreed.

In whoever's defence, it sometimes is because the person will put the cut'n'paste to say hello, so to speak, whilst asking the admin team to advise, so that the user doesn't think he/she is being ignored. Being volunteers, there isn't always s/one with the right knowledge at the ready, and we know by experience that there is nothing more undermining than not getting an answer at all.

[soldier girl]

Hi Guys- I think there are quite a few 'oldies' out there who because of the generation they come from find it hard to use the site or simply don't know how. This I know sounds very patronising, but I work with Old folks and this has come from their own mouths. They too have been ripped off by various organisations and are very vunerable. One of my 'ladies' has been very intimidated by letters etc and I helped but would not of been able to do so were it not for this site (Thankyou - donation from reclaimed charges on it's way). She would of been able to help herself but the website was too 'fussy' as she put it. I know this can't be helped;at the end of the day this is a self help site.

I think the home page could certainly do with an overhall as although still relevent it's a bit out of date and I also think it gets by passed alot.

Also, there is some important info that is not always being looked at because it is being presented in a way that looks too intimidating to the uninitiated. I did a thread in the general forum recently called oft referal to the competition commission after reading a link from a sticky saying it was highly relevent with regard to bank charges. I would of liked a sticky put on it because it presented an intro into the report in a palatable form where people could share a joke at the same time. i did not keep bumping it (even though it has had alot of views) because it looks like you're up your own arse and needing the attention and that is not the case.You could argue that it's up to everyone to do their own research but we are not lawyers and in some cases, people will be more aware of things if presented in such a way and if it gets the job done.

Hi T4FF ! Got to go and cook for the family now , catch up later

SG x:)

[Janet-M]

None of us are lawyers Soldier girl , all of this is a learning curve for us all .As the Banks change tactics we change tactics and vice versa.As for your stickie ,as I explained we get inundated with requests to make things stickies and it just can't be done .If a thread has good information you will find that the regulars will soon pick up on this and it will start being pointed to.

 

As for new members and how we can make things easier , you will find a lot will not even read the FAQ's or step by step guide when it is constantly being asked of them , for their own benefit.

 

People must also realise that the moderators do not just answer questions on the forum , a lot goes on in the background ie researching and a lot of our time is taken up by helping people who have jumped in without reading up on how to do it and then come unstuck.We have to help these people or it could have implications for everybody so I for one make no apoligy to constantly pointing people to the FAQ's and step by step guide.

[isidore]

The point of the thread is to possibly gain some ideas as to HOW we could improve things or maybe encourage others to point out WHY they don't find answers themselves - can't believe it's because everyone's lazy (although a lot probably are).

 

Not sure soldier was being critical of anyone just giving her point of view and that is what I was after.

[soldier girl]

Thanks T4FF x and Mjanet - I wasn't being critical just following the theme of the thread. As for my sticky I was told this was the way to go about it by a cag member who has been a member for a long time. Had I of known that this was not the case and that you were inundated with them I would not of bothered you - I was enthusiastic and I meant well.

Will go and find a corner to sulk in now!

LOL - SG x