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Old mortgage debt/DCA - please help...


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Thanks all. I have been advised to come looking for help on this board as some of you may have similar situations.

 

My original thread is here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-consumer-issues/34039-dca-old-mortgage-debt.html

 

and I would REALLY appreciate some help..

 

Thanks!

Abbey - 547.00 settled in full.

Second claim: £204 WON.

Barclaycard - 142.88 incl interest due WON BY DEFAULT as they didn't even bother entering a defence. Barclaycard paid up £184.88.

 

MBNA - Concluded £634.31

Capital One Concluded £148

Kinda disappointed I've no more banks to go after now...

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Thanks very much. Very much appreciated.

 

Also, in addition to my questions asked on my thread, the information sent by the Halifax is really difficult to understand. It's just a list - which makes no sense to me at all.

 

This appears to go against the ruling given by OFT that information must be clear and not take advantage of the fact that debtors do not understand the 'lingo'.

Abbey - 547.00 settled in full.

Second claim: £204 WON.

Barclaycard - 142.88 incl interest due WON BY DEFAULT as they didn't even bother entering a defence. Barclaycard paid up £184.88.

 

MBNA - Concluded £634.31

Capital One Concluded £148

Kinda disappointed I've no more banks to go after now...

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I have tried to plough through your thread, but have the 'flu so I know that I haven't taken it all on board.

 

From the info. so far though, the DCA do not seem to have any legal authority to collect from you. They have not been able to produce any signed authority to do so and Halifax have not included any signed Deed of Assignment or otherwise that indicates it with their S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) info.

 

Perhaps someone can take over and help from here ?

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Thanks SO much, and I hope you feel better soon! :)

Abbey - 547.00 settled in full.

Second claim: £204 WON.

Barclaycard - 142.88 incl interest due WON BY DEFAULT as they didn't even bother entering a defence. Barclaycard paid up £184.88.

 

MBNA - Concluded £634.31

Capital One Concluded £148

Kinda disappointed I've no more banks to go after now...

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Hi again,

 

I have read through your thread again and still believe that the DCA have not come up with any documentary proof that gives them the legal right to collect from you. A "personalised letter of authority" is not enough... you need a Deed of Assignment or any other legal document that clearly shows that the debt was sold to them.

 

Unless you have already done so, write to them again (recorded delivery, keep a copy) stating that...

 

I do not acknowledge any debt to your company. You have still failed to provide me with the information I requested. Under my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), I am entitled to receive all data that your company holds on my accounts.

 

Until I receive a Deed of Assignment or any other legal document that gives you the legal right to pursue an alleged debt, no payments will be forthcoming. A standard "letter of authority" does not represent a legal document.

 

To date, as you have failed to comply with my statutory request for a true, signed copy of any legal agreement, any further attempts by your company to enforce an alleged agreement will be reported to Trading Standards and the OFT, unless such a document is produced.

 

Furthermore, as you have been unable to provide me with the requested information within the legal timeframe, it is my belief that you were never in possession of a signed, true copy of any Deed of Assignment. In light of this, I find it astonishing that you have had the audacity to try and claim for an alleged debt without being able to provide any legal evidence to support that claim, within the time frame allowed by law.

 

I therefore do not acknowledge any debt to .......................or to any company that you claim to represent.

Please note that I am only prepared to communicate with you in writing. Should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please remember that there is only an implied license under English Common Law for certain people to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.).

 

Please therefore take note that, I revoke license under English Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so without my permission, you will then be liable to damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be conspiring in a trespass if you sent someone to visit me nevertheless. Should it be necessary, I will obtain an injunction.

 

Yours sincerely/failthfully....

 

 

 

Re. The Halifax...

 

In their letter, you said that they had confirmed that the account was not sold....

 

Are they now saying that the account was not sold to the DCA ? In which case, they have confirmed in writing that the DCA has no authority to collect !

 

Were they late with their (incomplete) SAR info ?

 

Halifax is not correct in saying they do not have to provide you with statements as the account has been closed for more than 6 years... you are entitled to receive all details of your entire banking history and if this means that they have to delve into the bowels of the building to find it on microfiche or whatever, then so be it... the SAR clock is still ticking though.

 

You have asked about manual intervention in the SAR. Yes, they do have to provide details and confirm if it did/didn't take place.

 

You are entitled to receive everything...

 

completion statement, all copies of all letters that they have ever sent to any address, any default notice, information regarding the sale of the house, proof of repossession in your name and details of any shortfall.

 

Until you receive all this information, do not make payments and if you have not already done so... request that all interest is frozen on the account. Also remind them that the account remains in dispute.

 

I hope this helps you.... although this thread could do with some input from others please ??

 

:)

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Thank you SO much Priority One! AND you have 'flu! You're a little pocket rocket!!

 

Just one thing.,.. I am based in Scotland - does this make a difference to quoting the English Common Law?

 

I will do nothing until I hear from either the Halifax or CIS now, but, when I do, I will be ready with the ammo!

Abbey - 547.00 settled in full.

Second claim: £204 WON.

Barclaycard - 142.88 incl interest due WON BY DEFAULT as they didn't even bother entering a defence. Barclaycard paid up £184.88.

 

MBNA - Concluded £634.31

Capital One Concluded £148

Kinda disappointed I've no more banks to go after now...

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As it is just a sling-your-hook kind of letter, just remove the "English" and leave it as Common Law.

 

I hope you are feeling a bit more positive.... I can appreciate what you must have been going through because I was repossessed some years ago. It's horrible... you see huge figures on bits of paper and freak out.

 

I was also unable to contact my ex (joint mortgage), but asked them to split the liability in half... which they did. They also froze the interest, so these are suggestions that you may want to use later on with Halifax.

 

:) ... off for another Lemsip !!.... keep your chin up...

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Thanks PriorityOne. I hope the Lemsip is working!

 

I heard from the DCA, asking what information I was still waiting for from the Halifax. I have sent this letter:

 

As I stated in my last letter, the Halifax have still not provided me with all the relevant information. They also failed under the DPA to provide any information within the 40 day deadline. It is within my rights to report them to the Information Commissioner.

 

I still require the following from the Halifax:

 

• I asked to receive all statements, including the completion statement, and a complete list of charges that were applied to this account. The Halifax say that they do not have to provide me with statements as the account has been closed for more than 6 years. This is incorrect. I am entitled to receive details of my entire banking history. They have failed.

 

• Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of their staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you. If they are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, they need to confirm this in their response.

 

• In the letter, they confirm that the account was not sold. Since this is the case, I can only assume that you have no authority to collect. They also say that all letters were sent to my forwarding address. The address they have on file is correct, yet I did not receive any correspondence from them. I am entitled to copies of all these letters

 

• I was never issued with a default notice. They need to provide this.

 

• I was also never informed of the sale. They need to provide this also.

 

• It is also my legal right to see proof of the repossession (in my name) and also the shortfall.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In addition, I do not acknowledge any debt to your company. You have still failed to provide me with the information I requested. Under my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), I am entitled to receive all data that your company holds on my accounts.

 

Until I receive a Deed of Assignment or any other legal document that gives you the legal right to pursue an alleged debt, no payments will be forthcoming. A standard "letter of authority" does not represent a legal document.

 

To date, as you have also failed to comply with my statutory request for a true, signed copy of any legal agreement, any further attempts by your company to enforce an alleged agreement will be reported to Trading Standards and the OFT, unless such a document is produced.

 

 

Please do not wrote to me again unless enclosing all the information to which I am entitled. Until I receive all this information, the account is in dispute and all interest must be frozen.

Abbey - 547.00 settled in full.

Second claim: £204 WON.

Barclaycard - 142.88 incl interest due WON BY DEFAULT as they didn't even bother entering a defence. Barclaycard paid up £184.88.

 

MBNA - Concluded £634.31

Capital One Concluded £148

Kinda disappointed I've no more banks to go after now...

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Thanks PriorityOne, and I hope work isn't too draining tomorrow...

 

It will be interesting to see, as you say. However, Halifax have admitted that CIS are their 'collecting agents'. Tell me... what is the difference..?

Abbey - 547.00 settled in full.

Second claim: £204 WON.

Barclaycard - 142.88 incl interest due WON BY DEFAULT as they didn't even bother entering a defence. Barclaycard paid up £184.88.

 

MBNA - Concluded £634.31

Capital One Concluded £148

Kinda disappointed I've no more banks to go after now...

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CIS must be the company... or one of the companies that Halifax uses to collect on debts. However, as far as I am aware, they need to have your authorisation before passing your personal data across to anyone collecting on their behalf.... or it becomes a breach of the Data Protection Act.

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Thanks.. that is VERY interesting... I have NEVER given my authority. I will keep you posted on the response...

Abbey - 547.00 settled in full.

Second claim: £204 WON.

Barclaycard - 142.88 incl interest due WON BY DEFAULT as they didn't even bother entering a defence. Barclaycard paid up £184.88.

 

MBNA - Concluded £634.31

Capital One Concluded £148

Kinda disappointed I've no more banks to go after now...

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  • 3 weeks later...

Ok.. Have now heard back from Halifax. I can't say it was worth the wait!

 

All they have sent is the following letter:

 

"Please find enclosed a completion statement and notes on completion statement for your information. You have been supplied with all our case notes as part of the DSAR request."

 

The completion statement is a one page sheet giving details on:

 

Total advance 42,750

Additional lending (including interest) 15,800

Interest from 1988 to 1992 27,249.75

 

Estate agents/auction costs 1,324.81

valuation fees 65.00

internal fees (yeah right! Only 40.00 though)

ground rent/service charges 2,246.35

property maintenance (?!) 111.63

other costs of realisation (?!) 871.62

 

Property sale proceeds 33,500

surrender value proceeds 1,771

AMS proceeds received (?) 8,872.16

payments received 16,675.04

 

Final loss 29,641.06

 

That is it.

 

Nothing else.

 

They have ignored all my other requests for information.

 

Where do I go from here?

 

They are not listening to me. Why? Am I asking for something I am not entitled to?

 

Thanks very much for any help.

Abbey - 547.00 settled in full.

Second claim: £204 WON.

Barclaycard - 142.88 incl interest due WON BY DEFAULT as they didn't even bother entering a defence. Barclaycard paid up £184.88.

 

MBNA - Concluded £634.31

Capital One Concluded £148

Kinda disappointed I've no more banks to go after now...

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Nothing from the DCA ? I assume it is back with Halifax now... ?

 

A one-page sheet does not comply with a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request going back as many years as this mortgage does.... but these people have a habit of trying to avoid their responsibilities.

 

Do they have any time left to comply ? If so, I would write to them again... repeating most of your original letter. Something like :

 

Thank you for your response to my SAR (Data Protection Act, 1988). Unfortunately, the information you supplied is incomplete.

 

I am somewhat perplexed as to your reasons for denying access to certain information. Under The Data Protection Act, 1988, a Subject Access Request entitles me to receive a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my entire banking history with your organisation. In other words, I require all transactional data that you have ever held in relation to myself. To date, you have only supplied me with partial information, on a single sheet of paper.

 

I also expect you to provide the following :

 

all transactional data

 

the Completion Statement

 

the Default Notice.

 

details of the sale of my property

 

evidence of repossession (in my name)

 

any shortfall

 

a complete list of charges that were applied to this account, including a breakdown of these charges.

 

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history that has required manual intervention, I require full disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please confirm this in your response.

 

I would also like to draw your attention to your letter dated xx/xx/xx, within which you confirmed the sale of this account to an external debt collection agency. I therefore require your clarification on this statement.

 

I would also like to draw your attention to your letter dated xx/xx/xx, in which you stated that all correspondence from you was sent to my forwarding address. I therefore need to see copies of all correspondence sent to me, by you, in relation to this account.

 

May I remind you once again, that my SAR request (Data Protection Act, 1988), entitles me to receive all transactional data held by you in my entire banking history with your organisation.

 

Please note that, I do not acknowledge any debt to your company.

 

Please also be advised that the above account remains in dispute.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Does anyone else have any thoughts on this ? We could really do with some input on this thread ? Please.... ??

 

:)

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Thanks Priority One.

 

No, still nothing from the DCA. I do suspect they will be in touch soon though. Halifax do not ever ask me for any money - that request has always come from CIS.

 

When the Halifax originally replied to my DPA request, they enclosed a computer produced report showing the mortgage application details, a copy of the information held by the Property unity and a copy of the information held by CIS. But they then said 'the account was not sold to anyone' - I am therefore confused as to the CIS involvement...

 

I think you are right - Ineed to write AGAIN and point out AGAIN what information they are still missing.

 

Thanks very much!

Abbey - 547.00 settled in full.

Second claim: £204 WON.

Barclaycard - 142.88 incl interest due WON BY DEFAULT as they didn't even bother entering a defence. Barclaycard paid up £184.88.

 

MBNA - Concluded £634.31

Capital One Concluded £148

Kinda disappointed I've no more banks to go after now...

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It's interesting that Halifax have never asked you for money.... and they should be able to provide you with proof that the account was either sold or passed to CIS.

 

If it was just passed to CIS... I would have thought that Halifax would have it back by now. Time will tell, I suppose...

 

Keep smiling... I know it's hard at times... :)

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  • 1 month later...

Hi all

 

I eventually heard back from CIS - just a copy of their previous letter saying "You will have heard back from our client now. Find enclosed an outgoing breakdown form. Fill it out and cough up'! Words to that effect anyway!

 

So I sent them a copy of the letter I sent the last time too! Two can play at that game!

 

What a ridiculous roundabout!

Abbey - 547.00 settled in full.

Second claim: £204 WON.

Barclaycard - 142.88 incl interest due WON BY DEFAULT as they didn't even bother entering a defence. Barclaycard paid up £184.88.

 

MBNA - Concluded £634.31

Capital One Concluded £148

Kinda disappointed I've no more banks to go after now...

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The Council of Mortgage Lenders..? No... I must have forgotten what that was all about... Can you refresh my dim memory?

 

Thanks :)

Abbey - 547.00 settled in full.

Second claim: £204 WON.

Barclaycard - 142.88 incl interest due WON BY DEFAULT as they didn't even bother entering a defence. Barclaycard paid up £184.88.

 

MBNA - Concluded £634.31

Capital One Concluded £148

Kinda disappointed I've no more banks to go after now...

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The Council of Mortgage Lenders..? No... I must have forgotten what that was all about... Can you refresh my dim memory?

 

Thanks :)

 

i'm back in work tomorrow so will dig out some stuff for ya :)

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  • 3 months later...

Ok... NOW, I have heard back from the DCA and they say that they have not received any of my letters! I will send copies (recorded).

 

However, they threaten me that they will now refer this back to Halifax and recommend litigation.

 

What do I do now!!!???

 

I am about to give birth and this is causing HUGE stress!!!

Abbey - 547.00 settled in full.

Second claim: £204 WON.

Barclaycard - 142.88 incl interest due WON BY DEFAULT as they didn't even bother entering a defence. Barclaycard paid up £184.88.

 

MBNA - Concluded £634.31

Capital One Concluded £148

Kinda disappointed I've no more banks to go after now...

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Have you kept the recorded delivery receipts ? If so, you should be able to check whether those letters were signed for or not...

 

The account has not been sold though.... they are passing it back to Halifax, which means that you should be able to deal with them directly from now on. I wouldn't worry about this letter... all it shows is that the DCA hasn't got its own way and has been forced to hand it back where it belongs... with Halifax.

 

In your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) from Halifax, are you able to find all the charges that have been applied since before the account was passed over to the DCA ? These will bring the balance down. However, you may want to wait and see the manner in which Halifax approach you on this one. Since it's gone from pillar to post for a while now... they may be willing to offer you a reduced F & F in order to clear it. If they do... whatever they offer you.... pitch it lower.

 

:)

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THANKS Priority one! The SAR was very minimal, and didn't show any charges at all. I will write to the DCA one more time - enclosing all the copies and sending recorded. They are clearly lying anyway, as they say 'we have not heard from you', so why have they been responding to my letters!?

 

If it is passed back to the Halifax, will I still be able to offer monthly payments?

 

thanks

Abbey - 547.00 settled in full.

Second claim: £204 WON.

Barclaycard - 142.88 incl interest due WON BY DEFAULT as they didn't even bother entering a defence. Barclaycard paid up £184.88.

 

MBNA - Concluded £634.31

Capital One Concluded £148

Kinda disappointed I've no more banks to go after now...

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