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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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rick V lloyds ***WON***


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ok, progress being made. i may as well start my own thread rather than ask odd questions

 

lloyds have sent me their AQ, asking me to send mine to them

 

 

as stated, i didnt copy my AQ when i hand delivered it to the court. is that a big problem?

 

two further questions/obeservations

 

1. they have ticked the box for yes for a month delay for settelemtn

2. they reckon they cant do hearings until late feb - they are wan%%$s

 

anyway, can i call them up now saying - go on, settle then or should i wait for a court date

 

thanks

 

RD

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i didnt copy my AQ when i hand delivered it to the court. is that a big problem?

No, no requirement to, only as a courtesy

 

 

1. they have ticked the box for yes for a month delay for settelemtn
Interesting. It was standard and then they stppedvdoing it in Oct/Nov

2. they reckon they cant do hearings until late feb - they are wan%%$s

You're unlikely to get one before end March anyway

anyway, can i call them up now saying - go on, settle then
Absolutely.
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Good idea to start you own thread. Did you use the New AQ Strategy?

 

Not a big problem, it is a courtesy to send to SCM, I would do so, but I see you do not have a copy.

 

Keep copies of everything.

 

Explain what you have done to SCM by letter and apologise and offer to get a copy from the court if they consider it essential.

 

Unusual that they ticked that one month box for a settlement period. They stopped doing that when the courts started getting peeved a few months back. Anyway invariably when they make no attempt to settle send a letter along these lines:

 

'Thank you for providing me with a copy of your completed N149 Allocation Questionnaire, which I received on **/**/**.

 

Referring to the Allocation Questionnaire, I must admit to being somewhat surprised by your response to Section A (Settlement). You have ticked ‘yes’, thereby requesting a one month postponement in proceedings in order that a settlement may be reached by way of negotiation.

 

Please note that throughout the process of this claim, neither yourselves nor your client have ever given any indication whatsoever that you wish to settle this matter without the need for litigation. In fact, all my previous attempts at dialogue with your client have been met with outright refusals to negotiate this matter, and on **/**/** I received a letter from Lloyds TSB’s service recovery centre which explicitly stated that the bank had issued its final response and therefore would not enter into any further correspondence. It is for this reason that I felt I had no alternative but to seek redress by way of Court action.

 

Having said the above, I do believe that litigation should always be a last resort and would of course be happy to settle this matter without the need for a hearing. Please be advised though, that I am completely confidant in the strength of my claim and believe that your clients charges could indeed be proved to be unlawful penalty’s which you are trying to cloak as contractual service charges. For this reason, I will only settle for the full amount of the claim, namely £***.

 

In light of your indication of your intention to negotiate settlement, I will await your communication informing me of how you wish to proceed. I trust this will come before **/**/**, as this is final day of the month you requested to reach a settlement in your allocation questionnaire.

 

A copy of this letter will also be sent to the court.'

 

You would be unlikely to get a hearing before Feb anyway, I presume your AQ return date was recent, i.e. this month.

 

I do not advocate communicating on the telephone with them, but in these circumstance given that they ticked the one months settle box I would phone them, but you are unlikely to get anywhere, it will just make them look bad in the eyes of the court.

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Hi just thought I'd let you know that we have just been paid out in full by [problem] on behalf of Lloyds TSB, they asked for a months stay to try and settle so we sent them the letter, as provided above, asking them to settle then! We followed up with a phone call and the cheque was in the account in a couple of weeks. Just keep going. Good luck.

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The New AQ strategy is this:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/53570-new-strategy-allocation-questionaires.html

 

I would combine both letters into one. However, be careful that you amend the draft letter to suit your purposes, no point in saying 'I will await your communication informing me of how you wish to proceed. I trust this will come before **/**/**, as this is final day of the month you requested to reach a settlement in your allocation questionnaire.' if the date has already passed.

 

As your thread start part way through the process, it would be helpful if you included your key dates, to make it easier for others to give the correct advice.

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ok, i think i may be getting to the bottom of thingsd. just been through my paperwork and noted lloyds defence, i hadnt read the small print as i thought it was normal legal stuff, but i think mine may be different (plus it arrived xmas eve). what do i do? i am positive my paperwork was in place asnd correct. i sent a breakdown of charges etc, checked it four times

________________

 

. The defendant Lloyds tsb is a bank whose registered office is 25 gresham street, london. It is admitted that the claimant has been a customer of the bank at all material times.

2. This defence is served without prejudice to the defendant?s contention that the statement of claim is insufficiently particularised and is embarrassing. The defendant reserves the right to plead further to the statement of claim once they are sufficiently particularised.

3. The defendant will object that the particulars of the claim in this action disclose no reasonable cause of action against the defendant and makes no allegations against the defendant as to why the defendantshould beliable to the claimant for the amount claimed.

4. The particulars of the claim do not comply with the civil procedure rules as (amongst other things) they do not show how the sum of £2422.50 is arrived at and the particulars of the claim are too vague. The statement of claim shows no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim.

5. The claimant should therefore, be ordered to file and serve an amended claim to set out the basis in law and fact for her claim as there is no pleaded basis for the claim itself. The claimant should give full particularsof the charges she is seeking to recover, identifying each charge, the date and amount of the charge and why the claimant is in each case she alleges it is a disproprotionate penalty and thus unlawful.

6. The defendant should then be given the opportunity to defend the proceedings further.

7. For the avoidance of doubt, by opening an account with the bank, the customer enters into a commercial arrangement with the bank for the provision of banking services. The bank is entitled , as part of that arrangement, to charge for those services. At account opening a customer is provided with detailsof the bank?s charges, currently in a leaflet a guide to our banking charges. By using the account, the customer acknowledges that the charges are incorporated into the contract. For personal customers, a number of services are provided for free, notwithstanding that they are an expense to the bank. Such services presently include, but are not limited to providing;

- cheques

- bank statements

- the facility to make payments by direct debit and standing order

- debit cards

- ATMs ( cash machines )

8. By maintaining the account in credit, or within any limit agreed with the bank, the customer may avoid most if not all the charges. If the customer fails to ensure that there are sufficient cleared funds in the account to cover payments, whether by cheque, debit card, standing order or direct debit, the customer makes a request for a payment to be made from the bank?s own funds. If the bank makes payment, or returns the payment, it provides a service as specified in the leaflet and makes a charge in accordance with the terms of the contract. On page one of the leaflet, the bank explains that ? there are normally no charges for everyday banking at Lloyds tsb when your account is in credit. When you use an agreed overdraft, there is no monthly fee and we only charge interest on the amount you are overdrawn each day. Where you go overdrawn without an agreement or where you use special services, such as copy statements, we will make a charge. This guide explains how these charges work, and when they will apply. If you want to use a service that we havent listed, we'll tell you the cost of that service before you give us the go ahead.

9. There is no breach of contract; the charges therefore cannot be a penalty, consequently there is no requirement that the charge be a pre-estimate of the banks loss.

10. The customer is given advance warning of the charges being imposed; statements show the charges, if any, the customer has incurred during the course of a month, and which will appear as debits on the following months statement. Customers are warned by letter when they go overdrawn or over their agreed limit without arrangement with the bank. If the customer fails to remedy the position, and payments such as standing orders and direct debits are refused then again the customer is warned by letter.

11. The charges are fair and reasonable, and it is denied that they are unlawfull.

12. The customer is notified of the charges in plain intelligible language at the conclusion of the contract, and on each monthly statement. The charges are terms which relate to the price payable by the customer for a service provided by the bank, and pursuant to regulation 6 of the unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations 1999, are not subject to the assessment of fairness.

13. In the premises:

13.1. The charges are for banking services, and are not damages nor a penalty;

13.2. The bank is entitled by contract to impose the charges, which are fair and reasonable;

13.3. It is denied that the charges are unlawful or contravene any statute or regulation.

14. The claimants claim is denied in its entirety. It is further denied that the claimant is entitled to the sum claimed or to any sum of the bank.

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Did you send a copy of the charges schedule to Lloyds direct then?

 

Once you receive a copy of the Acknowledgement of Service from SCM a copy of the charges schedule should be sent to SCM referring to the claim no, did you do this?

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I take it that is a no to my 2 questions. Lloyds' solicitors have sent you the 14 point defence because you have not sent the schedule of charges, hence the embarrassing etc. defence.

 

Anyways after filing using MCOL it is usual to do this.

 

Send 2 copies of your schedule of charges, clearly marked with your claim no. and a brief covering letter asking for them to be filed with your claim to:

 

The Court Manager,

Money Claim On Line

Northampton County Court

21-27 St. Katharine's Street

Northampton

NN1 2LH

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

(Your Name) –v- (Bank)

Claim No: ********

Date Issued: xx/xx/xx

 

Please find enclosed a schedule of penalty charges taken from me by the defendant, along with interest claimed at the annual rate of 8% pursuant to section 69 of the County Court Act. The interest in addition to the amount in charges equates to the total amount of my claim, namely £(AMOUNT).

 

I respectfully request that the enclosed schedule should be attached to the particulars of my claim.

Yours sincerely,

 

Wait until you receive the Notice of Acknowledgement (not the Notice of Issue) from the court and then send a copy to the bank’s solicitors, since they are the ones who will now be dealing with your claim

 

Dear Sir,

 

(Your Name) -v- (Bank)

Claim No: ********

Date Issued: xx/xx/xx

 

 

Please find enclosed a copy of my schedule of charges relating to the above claim.

Yours faithfully

Personally I would say it is not too late to send the schedule, just send it to them (Court and SCM) using a letter along the lines of that above, duly amended because you are a bit late and an apology.

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Are you saying that 2 copies were sent to the court and you expected the court to forward one to Lloyds?

 

If you have sent one to the Court and to SCM, no need to do it again, they unusually appear to be admitting in the AQ that they have calculations, in any event I suggest you read here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/47344-ltsb-defence-claim-too.html

 

I did not have this difficulty, so I am not too familiar with the thread above or its direct applicability given you have now filed your AQ.

 

Apologies if this is a bit protracted, but it is difficult to see where you as you only starting posting today and you have progressed quite far with your claim.

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Are you saying that 2 copies were sent to the court and you expected the court to forward one to Lloyds?

 

yes, i thought that was what you are meant to do, i had never even heard of scm at that point. i had sent the breakdown to lloyds as well

 

 

I did not have this difficulty, so I am not too familiar with the thread above or its direct applicability given you have now filed your AQ.

 

right, so you only offer advice if it fits in with your case step by step

 

Apologies if this is a bit protracted, but it is difficult to see where you as you only starting posting today and you have progresse

 

i haveent ONLY started posting today, otherwise i wouldnt have 50 posts. i have asked plenty of questions along the way.

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See my post 17 above, you wait until your are notified that SCM are handling your claim, through the Acknowledgement, and then send a copy to SCM.

 

Yes, I would send a copy to SCM and explain what has happended, i.e. you sent 2 copies to the court. The court should be sympathathic as you are a litigant in person.

 

You need to read what is sent to you when you receive it, post any queries you have here shortly after and then we will all help to ensure that you get your money. Lloyds will exploit anything that you do not do correctly.

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so just to clarify, i was meant to send a breakdown of charges to the solicitors despite having already sent them to lloyds. i am sure that was not mentioned on the thread i looked at

 

as they have put they will consult with me on the AQ, is it worth calling them up? or should i send a next day delivery with the charges to them today and call them later in the week

 

also, looking at the link above, it states lloyds are playing the game and being difficult. what is the chance if i just leave it, get a court date etc as i am sure i did all or most of what i was meant to do

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