confused about reply to my CCA request, please help!***WON***

[76Bramble]

Hi Stadium, Just wondering if you have had any progress with those jokers yet. I've heard nothing at all.....wonder if they have just forgot about me:rolleyes: I doubt it. Kelly:)

[stadium_arcadium]

LOL, I doubt it too!

Hi Kelly, nope, not heard a peep from them. Mind you, it's been the last thing on my mind this past week. A few days ago my 8 yr old daughter was hit by a car whilst on her bike:evil: She's ok, not seriously injured, but dealing with it all has taken priority over everything else. I intend to get back on CAG properly sometime next week, as I have other issues to deal with.

 

Dear SA

 

Been reading this thead with interest, especially regarding the 'tick in the box issue'. I would suggest that you and the other user (sorry can't recall the name) go to your local police and make report of attempted deception.

 

Don't let police fob you off as there has been a crime committed, most basic is attempted decption,,particularly if they have used this PPI box as a means of adding extra costs to your account etc,,deception practised, believed and money would be lost if you paid up !

 

I would then get a crime number and quote it to them!

 

Best means of defence is attack!!!

 

Good luck

 

Cups

Hi Cups, I'm not sure how I personally will deal with this, as I no longer acknowledge the debt. I agree that something has to be done though, as it could be on a massive scale...if Kelly and I have had it done to us, then I'm sure plenty of others have unwittingly been paying for PPI they know nothing about and didn't agree to!

 

 

I clicked for ya!

Thanks Medsec:)

[spiritgirl59]

Hi S.A.

 

I just wanted to send best wishes for you and your little girl. I'm so glad she was not seriously injured but I can well imagine how you have been feeling about it all

 

When family matters need dealing with everything else has to take a back seat, so you take time out with your daughter and don't worry about other stuff; it can wait for another day.

 

Big ((((Cyber Hugs))))

Love Spiritgirl x

[stadium_arcadium]

Hi S.A.

 

I just wanted to send best wishes for you and your little girl. I'm so glad she was not seriously injured but I can well imagine how you have been feeling about it all

 

When family matters need dealing with everything else has to take a back seat, so you take time out with your daughter and don't worry about other stuff; it can wait for another day.

 

Big ((((Cyber Hugs))))

Love Spiritgirl x

Thanks ever so S.G. That means so much to me XXXXXX

[76Bramble]

Hi Stadium, I am so sorry to hear about your little girl, you must have got such a fright. I hope she is okay now.

Take care, and will speak to you soon.xxx:) Kelly

[stadium_arcadium]

Thanks Kelly. Daughter is fine now, though she hasn't wanted to get back on her bike yet, I'm sure she will soon.

 

Update.. Had a call from TS today, basically they seem to think that Lowell have complied to my CCA request, by supplying the application form. But, he is going to check with a colleague who is genned up on the act to look over things for me. He does intend to contact Lowell about their harrassment and empty threats and will look into them not supplying obligatory account statements and the info I have requested (charges, transactions, transcriptions etc) He was very helpful and is hopefully going to ring me back in the next few days. I suppose now it's just a case of wait and see.

So really, no further on than I was before:rolleyes:

[spiritgirl59]

Had a call from TS today, basically they seem to think that Lowell have complied to my CCA request, by supplying the application form. But, he is going to check with a colleague who is genned up on the act to look over things for me.

 

Hi SA

 

This is a wee bit worrying isn't it?

 

Can you post back when he comes back with a bit more info?

 

Maybe he's not sure of what a CCA entails, and this is why he is going to check with his colleague eh? Lets hope so.

 

Love Spiritgirl x

[stadium_arcadium]

Yes SG, it is a bit worrying..the guy I spoke to quoted from the Act, section 78 (1) referred to "the creditor shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any)" bit, with emphasis on the if any !! He is under the impression that in some cases the application form is an agreement and it is quite acceptable as such. I tried pointing out to him that a proper agreement has to have the details of credit limit, apr etc, but it seemed to fall on deaf ears. He seemed more interested on pulling Lowells up for breaching 78 (4) regarding them supplying statements of account (something which they have never done) and harrassment.. and as I said, he was going to speak to his colleague who in his words is an 'expert' on the CCA, so is quite willing to help me if (in his words) we can use a loophole to get around this debt. I have offered to take in my Lowell file in person, as he is quite confused as to what section this account would fall under.

 

In lowells reply to my CCA request (back in January) they state:

I can confirm that the Littlewoods Flexible Account Plus product was a Woolwich current account with an overdraft facility that was accessed using a VISA Electron card. The card did no more than provide access to the account which had all the qualities of a current account including the following; the ability to deposit money, the ability to withdraw money and the ability to pay money to a 3rd party. It had an overdraft with a revolving credit facility and without a repayment schedule. It is repayable on demand on closure of the account.

Credit agreements are governed by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. However under s74(1)(b) CCA, part V of the CCA that deals with entry into credit agreements does not apply to an overdraft facility i.e. a debtor-creditor agreement enabling the debtor to overdraw on a current accout. It is not necessary for the Flexible Account Plus agreement to comply with sections 61, 77 or 78 and it is therefore enforecable and repayable on demand.

This is taken from the scan that is missing in my first post of this thread.

 

So, IF it doesn't come under the mentioned sections, then what does it come under:? Anyone have any thoughts?

I can't see how TS can make a decision on how to proceed when they've not seen any of my correspondance and aren't quite aware of the type of agreement. In all my letters from Lowell it states that the original creditor is Littlewoods Credit Cards, and thats what I told the guy from TS.

I've not heard back from them today, will post as soon as I do. I hope that I can go there in person, I think it would help clear up a few things.

[Curlyben]

True while s78 does indeed have the phrase if any, to be an enforceable agreement it must comply with s61.

So they well of complied with your s78 request, but are completely stuffed when it comes to legal enforcement.

[nuke em]

subscribing..

[medsec]

This is so confusing! Re the tiny tick thing, I have looked through some old papers, as I'm desperately trying to make sense of my debts, and one of my loans there are two tiny boxes next to PPI .... with tiny ticks in! They are pre-printed...... I do huge ticks, so I know, and as I've got my original I can tell they were pre-printed. Probably because on the phone I was told "if you lose your job you'll be covered", so I said yes. In the event though, I lost my job and as I'd been in it 5 1/2 months they said they wouldn't pay out because I had to have been in the same job for 6 months. It makes me so cross

[76Bramble]

Hi Stadium, so glad to hear your daughter is ok now.

Just reading your post with regards to TS, how on earth can they say they have complied to your request, with an application form:confused:

It is worrying, as Sanclare financial sent me a blank application form..... Yes, it is an application form, but who does it belong to??? not me.

 

I think maybe the guy you spoke with dosen't have a clue so hopefully, his colleague, 'the expert' may have more knowledge about CCA requests.

I am very interested to find out what he says about it. Kelly

[Goldlady]

Medsec we have the opposite problem in that the ticks in the PPI boxes on 2 agreements are in a very thick pen whereas the rest of the form my OH completed, including the countersignature, are in fine pen. Second one is subject of summons; we got first one withdrawn - round two:p

[76Bramble]

This is so confusing! Re the tiny tick thing, I have looked through some old papers, as I'm desperately trying to make sense of my debts, and one of my loans there are two tiny boxes next to PPI .... with tiny ticks in! They are pre-printed...... I do huge ticks, so I know, and as I've got my original I can tell they were pre-printed. Probably because on the phone I was told "if you lose your job you'll be covered", so I said yes. In the event though, I lost my job and as I'd been in it 5 1/2 months they said they wouldn't pay out because I had to have been in the same job for 6 months. It makes me so cross

 

Hi Medsec, This tiny tick in the box thing is obviously pre printed, both Stadium and I did not request it though and there is obviously loads of people with the same problem.

Sadly for you and lots of others who have requested it, there are so many get out clauses so they don't have to pay out. It's not worth having.

I am looking into all of my debts now to make sure I am not paying for unrequested ppi. Kelly

[76Bramble]

Medsec we have the opposite problem in that the ticks in the PPI boxes on 2 agreements are in a very thick pen whereas the rest of the form my OH completed, including the countersignature, are in fine pen. Second one is subject of summons; we got first one withdrawn - round two:p

 

Hi Goldlady, looks like more and more people are having this problem.

Good luck with yours and let us know how you get on. Kelly:)

[stadium_arcadium]

Hi guys, this issue with PPI has made me very angry. It's bad enough to be talked into it or told that you have to have it when taking on an agreement, but to have ticks put in by someone elses hand or pre-printed ones amounts to fraud doesn't it?! I wouldn't even know where to start in proving that I didn't put that tick in!:? although even my untrained eye can see it's pre-printed I can't prove it wasn't on there when I signed that application form (and I know I wouldn't have agreed to it)

 

Kelly, you seem to have a good case for the fact they have nothing with your signature on, have you replied to sanclare yet? I suppose with the postal strike there's alot of us CAGgers in limbo at the moment:rolleyes:

 

Goldlady, Medsec, thanks for your imput and good luck with your battles!

 

Still heard nothing from TS. I will wait a few days then ring them, a gentle nudge might help speed things up a bit.

[76Bramble]

Hi Stadium, I am getting mixed up with mine. It was Sanclare that sent me the Littlewoods flex application form like yours with pre printed tick!

I am dealing with Scotcall for Littlewoods extra, they just sent completely blank application form. It's great trying to sort this out, but when you are dealing with quite a few you forget who sent what! Good job I have my file:) I need to decide what to do now as I don't think I've heard the last of it. It's annoying when you think they can just send out an application form and thats it. It just proves you have applied!

Hopefully you will get some joy this week.Kelly:)

[stadium_arcadium]

Hi Kelly,

It's great trying to sort this out, but when you are dealing with quite a few you forget who sent what!

I can totally relate to that! I have done the same myself in this thread LOL!!

 

Have had yet another letter from RED this morn, it states that they have referred my account to their client for their authorisation that legal action be commenced against me, and they expect an answer from them in the next 10 days (letter dated 3rd Oct).

They also say they have no intention of corresponding with me any further, unless I offer a monthly repayment or F&FS.

 

I note that where they normally put Original Creditor: Littlewoods Credit Cards, it now says Littlewoods Personal Finance. Hmmmmmmm....

 

I am going to ring TS tommorrow for that gentle nudge...the guy dealing with my case is out today:rolleyes:

[76Bramble]

Hi Stadium, I have had dealings with Red, with my Capital one card. I sent them a CCA and they replied saying that they would not be dealing with the account anymore....

Then about two weeks later I received an offer from Lowell to pay aprox 25% of the outstanding debt as full & final settlement. I responded with yet another CCA. I have since had no reply from either.

It's no wonder I get confused when I am dealing with 3 debt collecting companies in relation to 1 debt! (Hamptons Legal also)

 

Hopefully TS will start the ball rolling soon. As for Red I would ignore them anyway, it's hard to take any company seriously anyway with a name like that. K

[stadium_arcadium]

Well I've had a reply from TS and it's not good news:(

Further to your enquiry against the above trader. I have contacted a number of colleagues who specialise in consumer credit law, regarding the exemption you are looking to take under section 78(1) of the CCA 1974. The advice that has come back is that the debt is legal and the exemption will not apply to your scenario. Following this, I would advise you to look to re-negotiate a payment plan with the company as the debt is legitimate.

 

How they can come to this decision when they've not seen any paperwork is beyond me!! And I will NOT be paying Lowell another penny, ever! I despise them so much!

If there's no other option for me then I will SAR either Lowell or Littlewoods and deal with this PPI issue as well as the unlawful charges that are no doubt on there. The whole lot will wipe out the debt entirely IMO.

 

So, as Lowell have admitted they bought the debt I guess I SAR them?

All comments appreciated:)

[76Bramble]

Hi Stadium, OMG that is not good news. I really thought they would have looked into this properly, but it does not seem so to me.

I am one step behind you, so i cannot give any good advise what to do now, as you say sent a SAR to claim charges and unrequested PPI .

I would make sure whether they have definately bought the debt, as they originally told me they had bought my Cap one debt, until i sent a CCA request to Lowells.

I will have a good read through the forum tonight and see if anyone else is having the same problems we are. Kelly:)

[Josie8]

If they had a enforceable agreement they would have sent it to you under the section 78 request. As they didn't and sent a mockup then its likely they haven't got one.

 

I would now write back and say that as they haven't provided you with a copy of original agreement you must assume they don't have one. Enclose your SAR request and say that until they comply with SAR request the account is in dispute.

 

TS are useless

[willy2006]

i am watching this thread with interest,i am at a similar stage i have had a debt wiped out by wescot as they didnt have a cca.I have just recieved a reply from MBNA it is well outside the legal timelimits and it basicly says the application form IS legal as a CCA and the debt still stands.I also have sent another SARS to yorkshire bank as the CCA for a loan and credit card

are not written in my handwriting,my signiture is there it doesnt look right but its there,also PPI is ticked but no payments have been put on the statements.Its very strange has anyone had success persuing lack of CCA

or have we hit a brick wall?:?

[stadium_arcadium]

Hi everyone, well I've not heard a peep from Lowell, I am thinking no news is good news;)

BUT, I have made a very interesting find......a copy of a Littlewoods flexible account plus agreement (not mine, as it is financed by a diff bank) in which it states it is a "LPF CREDIT CARD!!" So, just when I was floundering and thinking Lowells may have got round the s78 request I have a saviour LOL...what I need to do with it now I just don't know

 

I have had to put off my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request for now, haven't got a spare tenner til next week:lol: checking my paperwork I do have a letter stating Lowell bought the debt, so I will send it there, though I do loathe the idea of sending them any of my money!

[stadium_arcadium]

Firstly, apologies for not keeping this thread updated, it's been a long year!

 

Secondly, a little catch up with whats been happening with this....

Dec 07

SAR sent to Lowell, well after the 40 days allowed they only sent copies of their correspondence and telephone logs, stating this was all the info they had.

Letter rec from RED offering 50% settlement figure which was ignored.

January 08

Debt passed to JB Debt recovery so I replied with the 'Account in dispute' letter and told them to bog off.

SAR sent to Littlewoods Personal Finance. A reminder had to be sent after the 40 days had expired as no contact from them.

March 08

Complaint made to ICO for Littlewoods non compliance of SAR. Due to the ICO being snowed under they were unable to assign this to anyone until May!!

In the meantime debt was passed to Asset Collections then passed back to Lowell who continued with the usual threatograms.

August 08

Red/Lowell issued a Statutory Demand so I filled in the neccessary forms to have it set aside.

September 08

Letter received from ICO stating that Littlewoods Personal Finance "do not hold any information about me". Also all LPF got for not complying to my SAR was a telling off!

Letter received from Barclaycard (as they were the credit suppliers for LPF) stating "they are unable to locate any data" regarding the account.

October 08

I attended court for the set aside hearing. Lowells sent a local representative who had no paperwork (not even a copy of the SD) and was ill prepared. I however, was very prepared and the judge commented on this:-D The Judge agreed that the application form was just that, and for Lowell to issue a SD they should have had all the appropriate paperwork including the credit agreement. The rep tried to get a 28 day adjournment but the judge ordered her to call Lowell and fax a copy of the agreement to him there and then. Of course this wasn't possible and the judge showed his disapproval at Lowells abuse of process and disregard to the court process, especially after she tried again to get the 28 days. He stated they'd had plenty of time to request the agreement and pointed out (after reading my affidavit) that I had requested it on numerous occasions.

So, after stressing that the application form does NOT CONSTITUTE a credit agreement the set aside was granted, with costs, to be paid within 14 days.:-D

The judge also added that if Lowell want me to pay them then they must issue a proper claim in the proper manner with a proper credit agreement and all neccessary paperwork. As Littlewoods don't have any data then I can't see that happening really!

 

Belated thanks to everyone who helped and supported me, especially CurlyBen who has always been there when I needed him.

 

I have updated this thread in the hope it will help others realise that no matter how long it takes (2 yrs in this case!) or how many threatening letters you get, you can still WIN against DCA's like Lowell..and most importantly...an application form is NOT a credit agreement!