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Just sent off S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) today along with a few other banks, credit cards and finance companies. Maybe im being a little bold but i have made it very clear that i fully intend to take this to court and also that i fully intend to claim contractual interest on said claim. I have said the same thing to all the other banks and card companies too, i feel this is fully justified and the only real fair way to pursue this.

Dont know if it will help much but im getting in touch with the local paper to see if they are intersted in following the case. At the same time im going to forward all info in real time to the local MP, and maybe a few others i come up with along the way. I really want this to be a full blown exercise in humility for the banks and their crooked tactics.

 

here goes Muhahahahaha

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  • 2 weeks later...

Privacy & Data Protection

Radbroke Hall

Knutsford

24 January 2007 Cheshire

WA16 9EU

Tel +44 (0)1565 614000

Fax +44 (0)1565 613583

Mr Progenic7

Xxxxxxxxxxx Road

xxxxxxx

xxxxxxx

xxxxxxx

Dear Mr Progenic7

DATA PROTECTION ACT - UNKNOWN ACCOUNTS

We refer to your letter of 20 January.

Unfortunately we are unable to trace your accounts by reference to the information you have provided.

In the circumstances some additional information will be required in order that the matter may be further investigated. Would you therefore give details of any other previous addresses that may be relevant, the address of the appropriate branch and also indicate the approximate dates that the accounts were opened and closed.

We regret that the matter has become protracted and await your further contact in due course. Yours sincerly

Peter Townsend

 

Manager, Barclays Data Protection

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Sent reply off today (recorded delivery ofcourse), see how long it takes them to respond....

 

Tick Tock.....

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slightly modified the template to suit my own needs, will be claiming the contractual interest on this one along with 5 others all at SAR stage, making it very clear of my intentions from day one.

 

tick tock....

 

 

xxxxxxx

 

[edited]

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Just had another reply from the nice and helpful Mr Townsend, just about to draft him a nice and helpful reply. Strange though how they can find one account without an account number then he himself asks me how to do what he has already done Rotfl !

Hmmm and this man is in charge of our 'Personel Information' makes me sick, what a plank.

Im smiling already as i have a reply in mind muhaha :lol:

I can play his delay games all day long the clocks still ticking all the same ;-)

 

PS for the record anyone else have a letter that shows Townsend "found" their account details without an account number ? just so i can hit him with that too ;-)

 

Privacy & Data Protection

Radbroke Hall

Knutsford

Cheshire

WA16 9EU

 

29 January 2007

Tel +44 (0)1565 614000

Fax +44 (0)1565 613583

 

 

Dear Progenic7

 

DATA PROTECTION ACT

 

We refer to your letter of 26 January and confirm that a personal account has been located.

 

We are currently in process of obtaining duplicate statements in accordance with your letter of 20 January. In the meantime, please advise from which branch you would like to collect the statements once they are prepared.

Regrettably we remain unable to locate details of the business account. Without an account number it is difficult to see how this can be progressed. We are pursuing further enquiries in this respect but the position does not look hopeful.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Peter Townsend

 

Manager, Barclays Data Protection

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Posted reply to the Honorable Mr Townsend today (recorded deliver as usual) should reach him in the am tomorrow. Im quite enjoying playing along to their stalling tactics, all quite funny really.

Little does he know i have a few tricks up my own sleave, and hopefully me and barclays will clash in court. ;-)

 

heres his unusual response to an otherwise clear and simple request, with a huge contradiction in terms thrown in for effect. And the fact he cannot read to well just had to be highlighted for amusment !

 

 

Data Protection Act Subject Access Request.

31.1.07

Ref: letter of 29th Jan 2007

Dear Mr Townsend,

Thank you for your recent communication on the matter of data protection, I am slightly confused as to why you seem to be having difficulties. I find it very odd that you yourself, the manager of the Data Protection Team is unable to perform a simple low tech search. And if I understand you correctly Barclays do not adopt any real search method other than basic account number and sort code searching.

Furthermore I didn’t give you a account number from my current account either so how were you able to retrieve this information.

Could you also explain why the girls on the shop floor using straight forward technology could retrieve my details in minutes just from my name and address.

Local branch sort code: 20-55-68 (if this helps in any way)

As stated in my first correspondence with you (dated 20.1.07) my preferred local branch for collection is: Retford Nottinghamshire

I also wish to remind you that you have until 3.3.07 to have All necessary documents in my possession.

Yours Sincerely

Progenic7

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Posted reply yesterday and low and behold another letter in the post this morning, it seems the info has been passed to one Sharon Caffrey who has collated all the necessary and is ready to post them.

Actuallt to be fair im quite impressed with this considering two points,

1) i had closed both of these accounts years ago and didnt even have the account numbers

2) MBNA, Halifax and Online finance havnt even acknowledged my SAR request never mind got them ready to post.

 

I have signed the disclosure release forms ready to post back in the morning and hopefully will receive them mid week.

 

Got the Prelim and LBA ready to go apart from the final figures ofcourse.

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Another letter from the sharp Mr Townsend, its pretty awesome when switched on cookies operate the way they do. He says he sent me the payment back but No payment in the envelope (not only that in my SAR i Insisted they take payment). Also i made no mention of which particular format i wanted the copies to be sent in !

 

"the lights are on but he aint at home"

 

lol here it is, im just working on a response right now ;-)

 

 

Privacy & Data Protection

Radbroke Hall

Knutsford

Cheshire

WA16 9EU

Fax +44 (0)1565 613583

Tel +44 (0)1565 614000

 

2 February 2007

 

www.barclays.com

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Dear progenic7

 

DATA PROTECTION ACT

 

We refer to your letter of 31 January, which was passed to this department for comment due to your request for certain information, relating to bank charges, under the terms of the Data Protection Act [“the DPA”].

 

 

Please be aware that the Bank is not under an obligation to present information according to any particular format. However, you may of course obtain this data from copy statements and these will be supplied to you within the next few weeks without charge on this occasion. We would advise however, that statement information prior to 2000 is stored manually rather than on computer. Therefore, if your account was opened prior to this time, there may be an increase in the time required to collate the information you have requested. I apologise in advance should this delay be the cause of any inconvenience to you.

As the Bank is providing the copy statements on a complimentary basis your payment is returned herewith.

Yours sincerely

 

Peter Townsend

 

Manager, Barclays Data Protection

 

Barclays Bank PLC. Authonsed and regulated by the Financial Services Authority.

Registered in England. Registered No. T026167. Registered Office: 1 Churchill Place, London E14 5HP.

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response drafted up and ready to send in the am (recorded as usual) i will be claiming all costs including postage back later on ;-)

 

Privacy & Data Protection

Radbroke Hall

Knutsford

Cheshire

WA16 9EU

Fax +44 (0)1565 613583

Tel +44 (0)1565 614000

5th February 2007

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

DATA PROTECTION ACT

Dear Mr Townsend,

With reference to your letter dated 2nd Feb and with regard to my subject access request under the data protection act 1998 in which you were asked to comment.

{quote} “We refer to your letter of 31 January, which was passed to this department for comment due to your request for certain information, relating to bank charges, under the terms of the Data Protection Act [“the DPA”].”

1) Could you please define “We” as i'm not entirely sure if you are making reference to the whole of Barclays, your entire department, or simply your close friends, as your letter is signed only by yourself. Talking in the third person can cause some confusion and I feel it important to know whom I am undertaking correspondence with.

2) {quote} “Please be aware that the Bank is not under an obligation to present information according to any particular format. However, you may of course obtain this data from copy statements and these will be supplied to you within the next few weeks without charge on this occasion” This has also caused me some confusion as I made no reference to a specific format or media material in said letter of 31.1.07 .

I can only assume that you have confused the order of my correspondence and are referring to my original request SAR of 20.1.07 in which {quote}

“Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my banking history with your organisation on the two accounts listed above and previously held with you. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable.” However this is somewhat of a paradox due to the fact I stated that a set of statements would be acceptable.

3) I bring to your attention my specific request of a SAR dated 20.1.07 {quote} “I must insist that this is treated as a Subject Access Request and the fee is accepted.” Oddly you seem to have ignored my wishes and yet you make the implication that this service be done for free.

I made reference to “implication” because {quote} “As the Bank is providing the copy statements on a complimentary basis your payment is returned herewith.” Unfortunately there seems to be no payment “herewith”, clearly then i’m sure you can see the culmination of errors and contradictions in your reply have lead me to be slightly sceptical of your “comment”.

I must remind you that you have until 4pm 3.3.07 to execute the Subject Access Request, and said date refers to the documents being in my possession not merely posted on that day. After that you will be in breach of data protection act. Act now as you may be relying on your early actions later in court and a judge may take a very dim view of such a business deliberately stalling or supplying incomplete data.

The Information Commissioner has asked to be advised if I do not receive the data I have requested by this date. I hope this letter has not in any way caused you any further confusion.

Yours sincerely

Progenic7

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  • 1 month later...

Just come back to my lonely thread that knowbody looks at anyways:rolleyes: .

Finally got the "statements" though not statements more a garbled mass of figures or "microfiche" or whatever they call it. really difficult to make head or tail of the figures, they show loads of entries where i have gone overdrawn but make no reference to any charge for doing so.

Seeing as i didnt have an overdraft facility i know full well that i was charged for doing this, so why doesnt it show that they charged me for this.

anybody else had data in this format, rather than just copy statements ?

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Guest NATTIE

i have seen barclays statement sheets they are the easiest thing in the world to interpret because they tell you the charge the cost and how much, come one this is the easy bit. Am quite gobsmacked after seeing one such list that it seems to be difficult to work them out,

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Nattie,

your right mate barclays statement sheets are indeed very easy to read through, i have a few in the drawer.

Though like i said in the last post i made they didnt send copy statements they have sent, well im not sure what you would call them. Its says "framefiche" "record fiche" "frames indentmicro" then indeed payments,receipts,statement,clrd,clrdint,clrdoud.

what im saying is where i can see i have gone overdrawn (and from my original statements) and i know i had a charge, on the microfiche there is no such charge !

The bank siad they would only send copy statements, but these are a million miles from a copy statement.

Im not sure what you have seen nattie, but these are misleading, incomplete and not the easiest things to follow at all.

 

thanks anyway

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  • 2 weeks later...

ok heres the LBA going in the post in the morning, im sure the N1 will follow in another few weeks but who knows i may get a response :)

tried to keep it quick and to the point and stay away from the legalities for now anyway.

 

here it is

 

Johnny

 

FINAL LETTER BEFORE COURT ACTION.

Dear Sir/Madame

I make reference to the letter sent to you 16.3.2007 in which I “put my case” to you regarding unlawful account charges and fees. In said letter I gave you fourteen days in which to respond to my request, though unfortunately you have totally ignored this request. In the circumstances even though I feel I have given you ample notice of my intentions, I make a last offer of reasonableness.

I will not put the case to you again as I have already done this in great detail, and feel it would only be counter productive at this stage to do so again. However I do enclose a copy of my previous letter for the avoidance of any doubt.

I do however urge you to read and reconsider my letter of 16.3.2007 and at least show the common courtesy to acknowledge such a request.

As you will see and remember from my previous letter I advance that your regime of fee charging on my account is unlawful, unreasonable, and against several statutes. I feel I have stated my reasons very clearly and in great detail, and I stand by my thoughts on the subject. Further I aver that my case is very large in detail due to my extensive research on the subject, I feel I have a very strong case for my averments. Further to that I have researched this subject in so much detail I have noticed that not one single bank has actually defended a bank fee case in court, instead wishing to settle out of court.

I am very open to a settlement out of court, as I am very reasonable and do not wish to waste the courts time. Clearly any averments from yourself that you will defend these claims in court are obviously flawed by the fact you have not done so up to today’s date. I would actually welcome any chance to go to court as I feel this is an issue that needs to be proven in court one way or another, if this is something you would like to pursue then feel free to make your wishes clear, and we will begin.

Accordingly as I stated in my previous letter I now give you one last chance to respond to me, in the hope this can be resolved without further action, time and expense on both sides.

Further to the above I now ask that you respond by return of post with a formal acknowledgment, stating your intentions and notions on this matter.

If after fourteen (14) days from receipt of this letter you still have failed to respond, or respond negatively then I shall commence a county court claim against you pursuant to said fees.

If you force me to begin a civil court action against you, I will be claiming for damages and the court fees due to your unreasonable behaviour.

Therefore I ask you to avail yourself to this offer and show to me that you can be reasonable and more importantly show me your “fees” do actually reflect your actual costs incurred (liquidated damages). I feel this is a very simple request that any average business could and indeed would do in a matter of days.

I will certainly make the assumption that you are concealing your “costs” because you are acting unlawfully if you do not show your actual “costs incurred”, with a breakdown of figures to me. I feel there would be no reasonable reason not to show these costs, and only a guilty, unlawful business would contemplate hiding them.

I calculate that, as at today’s date, you have taken a total of £695.36 in excessive penalty fees plus interest on these charges. In addition, I also claim Contractual Interest (compounded) under the principle of mutuality, equity and reciprocity in our contract, as contract terms are binding on both parties. The unauthorised rate of borrowing is 27.50% therefore this rate has been added to the above amounts (from date of penalty fee) and the breakdown is shown in the enclosed schedule. I calculate the daily rate for court claim to be £0.10p per day which is equal to 0.067%.

 

I am also seeking to cover my actual costs incurred in terms of time, postage fees, SAR fee and stationary fee’s ect, as clearly this is only fair.

To clarify my position about these charges I advance the following:

TOTAL Penalty fees with interest = £ 695.36pp

Costs:

Time taken in internet and book research, letter writing, spreadsheet and legal preparation ECT @ £9.25 per hour x 36 hours to date = £ 333

Postage costs to date £ 9

Stationary costs to date £ 18

SAR Fee £ 10

TOTAL AMOUNT REQUESTED IN SETTLEMENT: £1065.36p p TO TODAYS DATE ACCRUING INTEREST @ £0.45 PER DAY

I will only accept payment by means of a cheque made payable to me progenic7, any other form of payment will be disregarded and the claim will continue pursuant to the fees incurred. My legal case is already prepared in anticipation that you will only ignore this letter once again, however I make this final plea in the hope that I may be wrong.

I expect a response and indeed payment no later than the close of business on 14.4.07. If I do not receive a response by that date on the 15.4.07 a N1 county court claim form will be presented to Worksop County Court, where I will vehemently be defending my claim of unlawfulness against yourselves.

Yours Faithfully

 

 

progenic7

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sorry gys just realised i didnt post my own prelim letter :rolleyes:

 

here it is (sorry its a bit long)

 

Johnny

 

 

Dear sir/Madame

 

Request for refund of charges and miscalculations made in agreement.

 

My request

I am writing to ask you to refund the charges which you have levied upon my account since inception, hereinafter referred to as ”The Account”. I am of the understanding that the fees which you have applied to my account in relation to direct debit defaults, overdraft fees and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and consumer regulations. If you advance that these charges are not in any way punitive or unlawful then please make your averments clear on paper, showing a complete breakdown of your costs, and your justifications, including specific legal case law, terms to be relied upon in court, and on what authority (apart from your own terms) you claim you can do this lawfully. If for any reason you cannot, or will not, advance these costs and justifications in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your actual costs accrued. Then I can only assume that my averments are indeed wholly correct, and you are undertaking in some sort of concealment of the truth, clearly highlighting your unlawfulness. I am sure you are now aware, if not previously, due to media coverage ect, that charging a fee as a means of punishment or penalty due to a breach of contract is unlawful, unfair and against English Law in many ways.

I would very appreciate it, if, indeed you can put my mind at rest, and show me what I previously thought of you is correct. What I mean by such a comment is that prior to December 2006 I held you and any other bank for that matter in the highest regard, and deemed it inconceivable for a bank to ever act unlawfully. Unfortunately after hearing about the findings from the OFT and various other media sources late last year, I became doubtful and sceptical of such things.

Further to the above, the crux of my request, although somewhat long winded is simply, for you to show on paper how you arrive at your costs, and to give me a breakdown of said costs. If you can do this I will immediately apologise and withdraw all comments, and my confidence in you will be fully restored.

The law and any given authority.

I have spent the last few months reading and researching this subject in great detail, and believe I have built a very strong legal case. At this stage I do not want to advance to far into the complex legalities of my case, in the hope that this can be resolved without such measures. However as briefly as I am able, I put before you the skeleton outline of my findings, and on what authority I use to bring such claims.

At present I am of the view that your charges represent a penalty and are therefore irrecoverable at Common Law. In the Scottish case of Castaneda and Others v. Clydebank Engineering and Shipbuilding Co., Ltd. (1904) 12 SLT 498; the House of Lords held that a contractual party can only recover damages for actual or liquidated losses incurred from a breach of contract. This is also the position in English law: Wilson v Love [1896]; Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79; Ford Motor Co v Armstrong [1915]; Bridge v Campbell Discount Co. Ltd [1962]; Murray v Leisureplay [2004]. Picardi v. Cuniberti [2003] B.L.R. 487. Brownlie v Campbell (1880) 5 App Cas 925, 950: ect.

 

Your charges do not reflect any actual loss; instead they appear to represent a lucrative profit-making scheme. The actual loss is the cost of automatically sending me a computer generated letter which I would respectfully submit is valued at no more than £0.40p recently in a BBC television programme “The Money Programme” aired on Tuesday 12th December 2006, several experts in financial and banking services spoke on the subject of Fee’s. These experts in the field included;

i. Kieron Beal ( Barrister, Matrix Chambers),

ii. Joe Gardner ( HSBC - Gen Man of Personal Finance HSBC ),

iii. John Fingleton ( OFT Chief Executive ).

iv. Nicky White ( Head of Personal Finance at Uswitch )

v. John Struthers ( Professor of Banking University of Paisley )

vi. Philip Molyneaux ( Professor of Banking University of Wales Bangor )

vii. Ian Jarrit ( Former Executive of Nat West )

viii. Walter Merricks ( Ombudsman spokesman )

The conclusions reached between the experts, were frankly shocking, as they estimated that a returned direct debit could not possibly cost any more than £2.50 in a worst case scenario situation. At this point I draw your attention to your terms and conditions, hereinafter referred to as “the terms”. I specifically draw your attention to any clause(s) of The Terms, in which your averments, inter alia state your right to recover your incurred costs. Further I draw your attention to the clause(s) (if any) of The Terms in which, inter alia your averments include your contractual right to claim interest in the event of any breach of contract. Unfortunately I cannot make specific reference to any clause in particular because I do not have, or have ever had, a copy of the terms.

After contacting IBAS (the independent banking advisory service) who as I’m sure you are aware are fully independent, non biased and a non political authority on banking related issues. I was shocked by their comments and shear frankness on the subject of penalty fees, they made it very clear in their averments that, it is quite common for a bank to abuse the court process and provide misleading data. Further to that the most interesting point I found noteworthy, was seemingly when a bank has a dispute with a consumer, they always defend (legally) no matter what the cost. This is of course only when the bank knows or has good reason to believe that they have a good case. This seems somewhat contradictory of your own protocols on defending claims, as I have been watching many claims in real time over the last few months. In these claims I have also noticed that you have not actually defended a single case in court, preferring to settle the matter a few days before the hearing. In my opinion this is a blatant abuse of service, and a total waste of precious court time and resources.

I bring your attention to, inter alia that a contract(s) (if any) binding any of the parties hereto, out of mutuality of contract the binding terms are effective on both parties.

Accordingly, the charges applied to my account are not a reasonable pre-estimate of your loss in relation to my account. Your charges would appear to represent a device to recover global losses (for example, loan defaulters, bad debt write off, including commercial lending in, and out with, the UK).

I hereby advance, and fully intend to prove that:

i) your charges are penalties;

ii) Your charges do not reflect actual losses incurred;

iii) Your charges are unlawful;

iv) Your charges are unfair;

v) Your terms are a misrepresentation of statement, and possibly a fraudulent misrepresentation.

vi) Your charges are excessive;

vii) Your charges are generally disproportionate;

viii) Your charges are punitive in nature;

ix) Your charges are not a genuine pre-estimate of loss incurred by yourselves in respect of any alleged breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant;

x) not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss in respect of any alleged breaches of contract on the part of myself, but instead unduly enriches yourselves while you are conducting your regime of charging with a view to profit;

xi) not intended to bear any relation to your actual losses which you can show you have incurred and wouldn’t of incurred but for any alleged breaches of contract on behalf of myself; and

xii) are held in in terrorem to discourage me from presenting items on the Account for payment where there are insufficient funds to cover such payment of said item;

xiii) Your charges are contrary to the FSA’s principles of business and

xiv) Your charges are finally contrary to the Banking Codes principles of fairness.

Without prejudice to any paragraphs hereinabove of this claim, all contractual provision(s), if any, between the parties hereto, which purport to permit you to levy the Charges to the Account, are unenforceable by virtue of:

i. The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (hereinafter referred to as the UTCCR)

ii. The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 (hereinafter referred to as The “UCTA’)

iii. The Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982; and

iv. The misrepresentation Act 1979; and

v. The common law.

 

Under the unfair terms in consumers contracts regulations (hereinafter referred to as the UTCCR) I advance my arguments under statute.

i. 5. - (1) A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer.

ii. 6. - (1) Without prejudice to regulation 12, the unfairness of a contractual term shall be assessed, taking into account the nature of the goods or services for which the contract was concluded and by referring, at the time of conclusion of the contract, to all the circumstances attending the conclusion of the contract and to all the other terms of the contract or of another contract on which it is dependent.

iii. 6.-(2) if there is doubt about the meaning of a written term, the interpretation which is most favourable to the consumer shall prevail but this rule shall not apply in proceedings brought under regulation 12.

iv. 8. - (1) an unfair term in a contract concluded with a consumer by a seller or supplier shall not be binding on the consumer.

v. Part 2: INDICATIVE AND NON-EXHAUSTIVE LIST OF TERMS WHICH MAY BE REGARDED AS UNFAIR; Reg 5(5).1

vi. © making an agreement binding on the consumer whereas provision of services by the seller or supplier is subject to a condition whose realisation depends on his own will alone;

vii. (e) requiring any consumer who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation;

viii. (i) irrevocably binding the consumer to terms with which he had no real opportunity of becoming acquainted before the conclusion of the contract;

ix. (m) giving the seller or supplier the right to determine whether the goods or services supplied are in conformity with the contract, or giving him the exclusive right to interpret any term of the contract;

x. (k) enabling the seller or supplier to alter unilaterally without a valid reason any characteristics of the product or service to be provided;

xi. (o) obliging the consumer to fulfil all his obligations where the seller or supplier does not perform his;

Under the Unfair contract terms act (hereinafter referred to as the UCTA) under the following sections I hereby give authority to my averments;

i. (2) In the case of other loss or damage, a person cannot so exclude or restrict his liability for negligence except in so far as the term or notice satisfies the requirement of reasonableness.

ii. (3) Where a contract term or notice purports to exclude or restrict liability for negligence a person’s agreement to or awareness of it is not of itself to be taken as indicating his voluntary acceptance of any risk.

iii. (9)(1) Where for reliance upon it a contract term has to satisfy the requirement of reasonableness, it may be found to do so and be given effect accordingly notwithstanding that the contract has been terminated either by breach or by a party electing to treat it as repudiated.

iv. (11)(1) In relation to a contract term, the requirement of reasonableness for the purposes of this Part of this Act, section 3 of the Misrepresentation Act 1967 and section 3 of the Misrepresentation Act (Northern Ireland) 1967 is that the term shall have been a fair and reasonable one to be included having regard to the circumstances which were, or ought reasonably to have been, known to or in the contemplation of the parties when the contract was made.

0n 26 July 2005, the OFT stated that 'a charge is likely to be disproportionately high if it is more than a court would be likely to award if the lender sued the account holder for breach of contract'. Because your charges include such an excessive profit margin, in addition to actual loss, they are irrecoverable as an unfair term in contract. I believe that your charges require me to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation for incurring transactions which were ultimately declined by an automated software driven computer system. In addition, it is unfair to require me to subsidise your global debt recovery costs and debt write-off protocols.

 

It has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

Further I feel that even though I will give you every opportunity to correct this unlawful behaviour, I fear that you may not avail yourselves to such an offer.

I also fear that you may advance that your charges are perfectly legal, lawful and transparent simply because they were written in the terms, and published on a tariff. At this point I make no admission, or have any recollection of ever receiving your Tariff of charges, or indeed ever having them drawn to my attention. More importantly at the time of account inception, no reference was made to your terms and conditions, and certainly no reference was made to any type of fee on the account. Further to that I make no admission or indeed have any recollection of ever receiving your terms and conditions. I aver that the terms were not in any welcome pack produced by you, at the time of account inception. I aver that at the time of signing the application, the advisor in the bank told me the account was a free banking service, and no fees or penalties would be applied to this type of account.

I also fear you may avoid producing a complete breakdown of charges, and indeed may be using Nemo debet prodere se ipsum as a defence to hide your unlawfulness in these matters. I sincerely hope that your response to this letter proves my points wrong, and you can simply show my thoughts are totally unfounded.

Your responsibilities

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time of execution. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully, fairly and in a manner which complies with English law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise. I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them. Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my Right until now.

 

What I require

 

I calculate that, as at today’s date, you have taken a total of £688.91 in excessive penalty fees, which you have also charged interest on. In addition, I also claim Contractual Interest (compounded) under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity in our contract, as a contract terms are binding on both parties, and clearly you have borrowed from myself without my authority. The unauthorised rate of borrowing is 27.50% therefore this rate is included in the above amount (from date of penalty fee) and the breakdown is shown in the enclosed schedule. I calculate the Contractual Interest element (to 16th March 2007)to date is rising at a rate of £0.10p per day, which Is equal to 0.067% daily compounded.

 

I am also seeking to cover my actual costs incurred in terms of time, postage fees, SAR fee and stationary fee’s ect.

To clarify my position about these charges I advance the following:

Unlawful fees with interest £ 688.91

Costs:

Time taken in internet and book research, letter writing, spreadsheet and legal preparation ECT @ £9.25 per hour x 30 hours to date = £ 277.50p

Postage costs to date £ 6

Stationary costs to date £ 15

SAR Fee £ 10

TOTAL AMOUNT REQUESTED IN SETTLEMENT: £ 997.41 TO TODAYS DATE ACCRUING INTEREST @ £0.10 PER DAY

 

I request that you refund this amount in full, payable by cheque directly to me.

 

Targets to resolve this matter

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and write on the assumption that you will prefer to do this rather than merely respond with standard template letters and leaflets. After having watched and read the responses of hundreds of Barclays cases, I understand your protocols in defending these costs. I strongly aver that your costs are not transparent, lawful, or legal just because they are written in the terms, and I suggest you read this letter carefully and give it a very considered response, in the same way I have written it.

You have 14 days, from receipt of this letter, to reply unconditionally accepting my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment. I feel I must point out that if you do not avail yourself to this opportunity, to be fair and open, you will be leaving me very few options other than further action.

If you do not respond, or do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you one further (letter before action) letter allowing a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments. After that there will be no further communication from myself and I shall issue a County Court Claim at any time after the expiry of the second deadline. At which point I will also be claiming the court fees, any further expenses and exemplary and aggravated compensation.

If at any time you feel it necessary to contact me via email (for a quicker response) you may do so on the following address: [email protected]

 

I look forward to hearing from you by return.

Yours faithfully,

Dont Rush - Take Your Time - Dont always take me seriously

:p

 

If you feel i have helped you then click

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  • 3 weeks later...

received an interesting letter yesterday from barclays, it was basically a standard template letter saying please read the enclosed.

So looks at the "enc" and low and behold its barclays brand new and fully updated "terms and conditions" :lol:

 

On looking through them i have found a much more detailed approach to charges, and lots of "get out clauses" regarding anything a claimant may try and bring against them.

They are now saying the charges are more of a fee for a service, ie the service is in deciding whether to allow or decline a payment (making out its very human process), when you read it, it sounds like a supervisor is sat there looking at a monitor tracking every payment in and out of the bank. Then having to make important decisions whether to allow them or not...lol yeah right.

 

Clearly all these processes are fully automated requiring zero human intervention. I thought a very telling tactic by the bank though to use such an argument.

Still they are still going to have to prove the breakdown of these charges in court, regardless of what they claim to be the case, either way an impossible task for them.

 

not that anybodies reading this thread anyway :p could be writing anything in here really, might actually change direction of this thread vegatable growing, or fishermans news, perhaps last weeks world changing copy of nuts magazine :o oh my.

Dont Rush - Take Your Time - Dont always take me seriously

:p

 

If you feel i have helped you then click

Here, if you feel i have not helped you then click Here, if you want to complain about this go Here, if you would like bank secrets then go Here.

 

MBNA - Case Charges+PPI+CI+LA+Damages+costs

RBS Credit Card - Case Charges+CI+LA+Costs

Barclays - Case Charges+CI+LA+Damages+costs

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BOOOOO!!!!!

 

see someone is reading it...LOL

 

yeh, they might change the T's & C's but remember at the time of the unfair charges twas the old T's & C's.

 

OMG nearly falls off my chair in shock..i have a poster on my thread :o :D

 

Lol

 

yes i realise its the T+C's that were issued at the time that must be used in the court room, and the update T+C's are only relevant to charges from today onwards (or are they only relevant to new accounts from today onwards)

Dont Rush - Take Your Time - Dont always take me seriously

:p

 

If you feel i have helped you then click

Here, if you feel i have not helped you then click Here, if you want to complain about this go Here, if you would like bank secrets then go Here.

 

MBNA - Case Charges+PPI+CI+LA+Damages+costs

RBS Credit Card - Case Charges+CI+LA+Costs

Barclays - Case Charges+CI+LA+Damages+costs

Halifax - Case Charges+CI+Damages+costs

Online Finance - Case Charge+CI+Damages+costs

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And even the new T&C regime is doubtful; it'a called 'cloaking of charges'...

 

 

Just because we're not all talking at once, doesn't mean we're not listening.....

 

 

Good luck

 

D.:D

Barclays (2 accounts) WON

Lloyds TSB (Daughter's) WON

 

Cohen's: WON (discontinued)

DLC: Given up, gone away.

Eversheds: Trying!

Equidebt: In default

Intrum J: Return to OC

iQor: Stopped paying.

Link: In default.

ScotCall: Return to OC

Thames: Stopped paying.

 

 

I am NOT a legal or financial expert. There are many CAG members and staff who are better qualified. Please do not make major decisions based on my advice alone.

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welcome oneofakind,

 

i agree cloaking of charges or in a legal sense (concealment) or even (misrepresentation) is even worse than just the charges, especially in court as concealment puts the defence in a different light altogether, i just found it quite telling that they have been advised to go down this route, ie lets say its a service fee and hope for the best.

 

Anyway the N1 gets filed this week hopefully (if i get my act together) the charges go back to 99 to its a time barred case as far as the defence are concerned, that plus damages plus CI :p

 

 

could get interesting

Dont Rush - Take Your Time - Dont always take me seriously

:p

 

If you feel i have helped you then click

Here, if you feel i have not helped you then click Here, if you want to complain about this go Here, if you would like bank secrets then go Here.

 

MBNA - Case Charges+PPI+CI+LA+Damages+costs

RBS Credit Card - Case Charges+CI+LA+Costs

Barclays - Case Charges+CI+LA+Damages+costs

Halifax - Case Charges+CI+Damages+costs

Online Finance - Case Charge+CI+Damages+costs

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It looks to me like a tactic born of desperation. I think they're just digging themselves a bigger hole, and my opinion of banks in general (pretty low ever since my first bank charge, in about 1982!) sinks further every week as we watch them trying to wriggle around the law! I won't express my true opinion, 'cos the CAGbot will just edit all the juicy bits out.

 

I'm sure you feel the same, anyway.

 

My court claim will also be submitted this coming week. I'll keep my own thread up to date, and keep an eye on yours, too.

 

Anyway, that's enough ranting for a sunny Sunday morning; I'm off out for a paper, a pint, and maybe a copy of Nuts magazine. (Any good?:p )

 

Keep shoving it up'em; they don't like it up'em!

 

D.:D :D :D

Barclays (2 accounts) WON

Lloyds TSB (Daughter's) WON

 

Cohen's: WON (discontinued)

DLC: Given up, gone away.

Eversheds: Trying!

Equidebt: In default

Intrum J: Return to OC

iQor: Stopped paying.

Link: In default.

ScotCall: Return to OC

Thames: Stopped paying.

 

 

I am NOT a legal or financial expert. There are many CAG members and staff who are better qualified. Please do not make major decisions based on my advice alone.

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good idea i think i'll join you :)

 

Nuts - V.Good if you like Lucy Pinder (fully exposed) :p

 

have a good day

Dont Rush - Take Your Time - Dont always take me seriously

:p

 

If you feel i have helped you then click

Here, if you feel i have not helped you then click Here, if you want to complain about this go Here, if you would like bank secrets then go Here.

 

MBNA - Case Charges+PPI+CI+LA+Damages+costs

RBS Credit Card - Case Charges+CI+LA+Costs

Barclays - Case Charges+CI+LA+Damages+costs

Halifax - Case Charges+CI+Damages+costs

Online Finance - Case Charge+CI+Damages+costs

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