I didn't get Job Seekers due to misguided advice!

[alibobsy]

opps meant to say the problem is the people in the Job Centre are just specialists/trained to give general advice and getting people signed and into work. The actual processing and calculations are done by benefit processors, usually now in a central benefit delivery centre. Also they can't refuse to take a claim for any benefit even if there is no chance of you getting anything although they might try toput you off.

ali

[alibobsy]

From my experience the Job Centre Plus are completely useless. My partner and I both had to make a claim for JSA, both spent 45mins on phone giving details for seperate claims, only to be told at our interviews that we couldn't have seperate claims and all paperwork would need to be done again. Then last week I had to change my part of our joint claim to Incapacity Benefit, was told my partner would be switched to a single claim only to find out this week that they have closed my partners claim, without informing her! and that in order for her to be paid any benefit she would need to piggyback on my IB claim for income support. In the few months we have been claiming we have had numerous problems with payments, the worst being my partners part of our joint claim being suspended for 5 weeks over xmas as they claimed she hadn't given them any details about a query they had, only for them to 'find' the missing paperwork after xmas. We received no apology, were told we weren't entitled to any social fund payments during the 5 weeks so over xmas we £57 to live on, between 2 of us.

The trouble is the government decide how things will be done and don't bother about the fact that the computer systems and/the staffing levels aren't there to sort it. You first problem was caused by the new sys of making claims over the phone to staff who are basically just call takers with little or no benefit training, they read questions froma script. Under the old sys you and your ptr would have gone into a job centre and they would have said, your a couple here fill in one claim what was wrong with that lol. The computer system is basically the same system introduced in 1988, they keep tweeking and adding bits, but it isn't up to the job. Joint claims are a nightmare to process and quite often "fall" on the computer system automatically meaning constant manual intervention. You could have stayed on JSA in her name as a couple claim rather than a joint claim, and the IB you get would just be taken into account off the award. Or you can claim IS for the 2 of you. The rates are the same accept your ptr would have to keep signing on. The only difference is on JSA your ptr would be getting her contributions covered for the future.

good luck

ali

[JunkiMunki]

hiya once again to "PM"just click on MY name in the blue shaded area to your "TOP LEFT" hand corner and it will open a profile up of that person and then if you look over this page you will see where it says send a" Private Message" click on that and type away gal, ope this clarifies that for you, enjoy your hols u can click my scales if this bit of info has helped, and will follow your progress, I have been trying to sort discrepancies out with the DWP since 2003, after I found out that I was not getting the benefit I thought I was since 1995, have all papers needed to confirm this and have even got papers stating that the DWP altered some of my forms without my knowledge this is in writing from the DWP , which in my eyes is fraud still trying to sort it, will bore you with that another time, but I am quite clued up on the DWP and have some excellent reference books if you wanted anything answering in particular.

junkimunki xx

[sunshine star]

The job centre base the ni details on what the inland revenue gives them. Soemtimes this is right sometimes it is wrong. Can you post the details from the statement about the type and amount of conts paid in each year, so I can look and see if there are any obvious problems. BTW did you actually apply for the benefit and be disallowed or were you put off prior to actually making a claim? Also you say your redundancy was used to pay off a credit card, although capital wouldn't have effected a contribution based jsa claim. Anyone claiming the income based would find paying off debt it not classed as an essential use for capital and you might well have found they would have deemed you as still having the money.

ali x

 

The statement shows (as an employed person) 2002/2003 I contributed £1,530.00 and in 2003/2004 I contributed £1,614.80. According to the DWP system I paid £380 in 02/03 and nothing in 03/04! In the six year period on the statement it shows 05/06 as £380 in earnings from stamp paid via child benefit. I actually filled in loads of forms as I didn't know what I would be entitiled to but the guy at the JC told me there and then I couldn't have anything and didn't send a letter to confirm. This is noted on their system which has helped my case to a point. They didn't ask about any money I had. The decision was based purley on the fact I lived with a partner. I wasn't even asked how much NI I had paid etc.

 

What's annoying me now is I've been told it's all going through for a special payment and then they've passed the case over to someone else without making sure they are aware of all the details. How incompetent is that?

 

Really appreciate everyones input here, thank you.

[JunkiMunki]

hiya TB, have sent you a PM with some info feel free to PM anytime regarding anything or general chit chat add me to your buddy list, I am still trying to get someone to look at my cases regarding DWP from 1995 up tp 2003, I have all the relevant paperwork needed and a copy of a letter from themselves saying that THEY had altered my forms , but this was unknown to me until 2003, when I said that to do that amounts to Fraud, but as it is so complex and it has a knock on effect with other benefits I cannot get any nearer , and have even been called a stupid woman with that crap book, evevn though the book is used by every Solicitor for social security cases, but beleive me when I say I am down but not out as I will get to the bottom of it and will make them pay more than the 6/7 thousand owing me , just watch this space ;) junkimunki

[sunshine star]

Have just PM'd you back. Your case seems far more complex than mine. Hope you get it sorted out.

[alibobsy]

The statement shows (as an employed person) 2002/2003 I contributed £1,530.00 and in 2003/2004 I contributed £1,614.80. According to the DWP system I paid £380 in 02/03 and nothing in 03/04! In the six year period on the statement it shows 05/06 as £380 in earnings from stamp paid via child benefit. I actually filled in loads of forms as I didn't know what I would be entitiled to but the guy at the JC told me there and then I couldn't have anything and didn't send a letter to confirm. This is noted on their system which has helped my case to a point. They didn't ask about any money I had. The decision was based purley on the fact I lived with a partner. I wasn't even asked how much NI I had paid etc.

 

It would have been better if you had, had an actual decision that was disallowed incorrectly as opposed to just being misdirected as you would have more proof of the error, but at least there is still a note and some eveidence of the interview you had. The type of stamps you pay effect whether you get benefit as well. Only class 1 paid conts or class 1 credits (except for some very specific rare stamps) count towards JSA.. If you claimed in 05 the years looked at would be 03/04 and 02/03. If the figures you quote are earnings factors you would appear to not qualify for contributary benefits on the amounts you quote. You would probably satisfy the first condition to have paid at least 25 times the lower earnings factor in both tax years, but fail the second condition to have paid/credited 50 times the lower earnings limit. The child benefit does not pay your contributions it does in fact award you home responsibilities protection for each full tax year you get it. This then reduces the number of years you need to have paid for your pension, but does not effect any benefit claims. Sorry! I will have a look for the exact figures and double check for you. However even if you didn't qualify for payment you should have been able to claim to get your ni credits paid for the period you were out of work. See what the appeals people say. Good luck

ali x

[JunkiMunki]

hi Alibobsy,

junkimunki ere

Credits & Home responsibility protection,

If you do not pay N.I.C's , there will be gaps in ur contribution record. However, in many circumstances u will be credited with a contribution. A credited contribution is simply known as a credit.

Credits help u to satisfy the [2nd] contribution condition for benefits with [2] conditions [ie; Contribution-based JSA, Incapacity Benefit [iB], Category A +

B retirement pensions, widowed parent's allowance + bereavement allowance],

It is important to note that credits cannot help you to satisfy the 1st contribution condition for such benefits or to qualify for a bereavement payment, which has a single contribution condition.

This means if you are claiming Contribution based JSA or IB u must have actually paid contributions with an earnings factor of at least 25 x the LEL for the year in question.In the case of Contribution Based JSA THESE MUST HAVE BEEN PAID IN "ONE" OF THE LAST "TWO" TAX YEARS B4 THE RELEVANT BENEFIT YEAR FOR "IB" THESE MUST HAVE BEEN PAID IN "ONE" OF THE LAST "THREE" TAX YEARS IMMEDIATELY B4 THE RELEVANT BENEFIT YEAR, U RECEIVE ONLY ENOUGH CREDITS IN ANY TAX YEAR TO MEET the minimum contribution condition eg; if you earn £4,500 as an Employee between April and October 2003 you will receive no credits during the rest of 2003/04 because you have already paid NIC's with an earnings factor of more than £4,004,[ which is the minimum amount required tocount for Long Term Benefits-52 x the LEL.

Home Responsibilities Protection[ HRP] HELPS YOU SATISFY THE SECOND CONTRIBUTION CONDITION FOR LONG TERM BENEFITS, by reducing the number of years for which you would otherwise have to satisfy the contribution condition.

HRP IS A YEAR THROUGHOUT WHICH YOU RECEIVE CHILD BENEFIT for a child under 16, No year b4 6/4/1978 can be a year of HRP.

HRP helps towards satisfying the 2nd contribution condition for Long Term Benefits. In Rare cases, the rules about when contributions must have been paid in order to satisfy the 2nd contribution conditionmaymean that you should delay ur claim for contribution based JSA, so that you can draw on a different years NIC record, this is because the the relevant tax year for contribution Based JSA, depends on the benefit year in whichthe 1st day of your jobseeking period starts. eg; if you claim b4 Sunday January 5th 2003 the relevant years for contributions would be 1999/00 +2000/01, whereas if you delayed your claim ON or AFTER Sunday 5th January 2003 the relevant

tax years would then be 2000/01+ 2001/02, sorry about that ALIBOBSY BUT

the law states the "Contributions for contribution based JSA must have been paid in [1] of the last [2] complete tax years b4 the relevant benefit year, therefore [1] year out of the [2] you quoted would have been sufficient to qualify. can be either class[1] or [2] for IB, but have to be class[1] 4 contribution based JSA. ;) junkimunki xx sorry do not mean to undermine you but it clearly states in any 1[] of the [2] tax years does not require them in both tax years.

[JunkiMunki]

hiya tedsbird have apologised to alibobsy but had to clarify the situation as to the LEGAL REQUIREMENT regarding the Tax years , Pm if you require any further info x;) junkimunki xx

[alibobsy]

Sorry I didn't go into the full conts details as it starts to get complex. You are quite right the first condition is in either of the relavent years the second is in both

I have to admit I work and have worked for the DWP/Job centre Plus(previously BA,dss and dhss!) for the last 17 years doing various benefits. I have always tried to do my best for customers and one thing said recently in my annual report was I go the extra mile to help customers, unfortunatley I have seen and met colleages who aren't quite as bothered. Half the trouble comes from above where the push is to clear numbers of claims, not accuracy unfortunately. I would rather do 10 claims perfectly than 25 where bits are missed off or paid incorrectly. I am happy to help people on here via the forum but obviously I have to be careful not to do or say anything that could lose me my job. To be honest most of the general info about benefits is out there. I am used to looking at both tax years for the conditions at work so you tend to know the rough levels for 25 lel and 50 lel so I forgot to mention the either or bit sorry!

good luck

ali x

[alibobsy]

Btw they shouldn't alter your forms without you initialling the amendment You could request a copy of the form, but whether they can track the original form down is another thing altogether.

ali x

[sunshine star]

Hello!

 

Right read through all your comments. What I have picked out thou is the last years NI paid - I didn't have a contribution paying job so that figure is HRP - it isn't relevant to my claim as it's a later tax year. I just mentioned it to explain how the whole appeal has gone. My apologies if I've confused anyone!

 

The figures I quoted above were actual NI contributions paid in each period (equivalent gross salary was in the region of £26k per annum). I know I have paid enough now as my friend (who made me aware I was entitled to it) was on an annual salary of £16k and £18k for her qualifying tax years and was awarded the full JSA so my contributions shouldn't be a problem.

What I was trying to work out was the actual amount owed. I understand from various threads etc that they reduce the weekly payment for any work undertaken. As I did have a part time job I was trying to calculate the amount due to me.

 

JM is a darling and going to find some nice pieces for me to quote in my next letter so I'll be posting it hear for all to verify! If anyone can give me a calculation to work out what's due to me I'd appreciate it.

[alibobsy]

Ahh that is different then if they are actual conts and you were on such a high wage you will have qualified. For part time earnings it would depend on if you wage and hours varied week to week or if you were on set hours/wage each week. There is an amount of your weekly wage which is disregarded before it effects your benefit, this is £5 for a single person, So you would need to know the weekly benefit rate due during the period you want to claim less the weekly amount of you wage(after the disregard is taken off) to work out your weekly rate. Contributary based JSA is only payable for 182 days, the first 3 days of your claim, unless it links to a previous benefit claim or jury service (linking period is 12 weeks gap between) are classed as waiting days you get no payment for these days and they are not included in your 182 days (god the government know how to make comlicated rules lol). If it was me dealing with your complaint I would recheck your NI account and if it was still wrong ask for your P60's for the relavent year, then would need some wage slips to look into your earnings. Would you have these docs? If not it is a case of you putting the figures you remember in writing and probably a dec maker would have to decide if your figures sounded reasonable and could be accepted. I think you said you had a correct ni statement so it would probably mean it would just be the part time earnings that further info would be needed. Hope that helps with your calculations, at least if you have a rough idea of what is due each week you should have a rough idea how much the arrears will be. The weekly rate of benefit also depends on your age at the time as there are separate rates for over and under 25 year olds but these are available on the internet. Sounds like you just need to get someone to look at this for you and do the manual calculation (will have to be done manually as your original claim will probably have been closed online) , you can prove the ni issue and I think from what you say they already know you had an original claim and the dates.

Good luck

ali x

[JunkiMunki]

Sorry about this but JSA Contribution based is "NOT MEANS TESTED" it is an individual benefit paid to all who qualify the conditions needed regarding their NIC record.

junkimunki

[JunkiMunki]

Hiya TB,

Sorry for the delay will read up on it this afternoon , sorry I have not been on but forgot to tell you ad to go i hospital yesterday for an operation on my knee, feeling a bit better now it,s over catch you soon M8

junkimunki xx

[JunkiMunki]

hi once again Alibobsy, nice to know that you that you acvtually worked for the DWP, and that you was one of the more competent staff than one of them who just does it for the sake of it, I have got a letter from the DWP stating that they themselves altered my form, and have got copies / originals of all letters sent by me and DWP, I am getting my information from the Cpag, books which a solicitor told me they class as their bible on SS law, you did not say which dept of the DWP you worked in as YOU may be able to answer some questions I have regarding my problem and where I should be able to get the help to sort this mess out.

[JunkiMunki]

hi Alibobsy,

I am just asking permission to PM you with a basic outline of my problem as you say you would rather go the extra mile in sorting a claim than just to shove it under the carpet.

will not be offended if you refuse tho, it was just a thought that [2] heads are better than [1] ;)

[alibobsy]

Will take a look if you want JM but obviously I can't access your account on the system. I don't know which office deals with your area of the country, not the one I work at so I don't know how they are organised. Is there someone looking into this for you at the mo or are you just getting together a complaint to send in?

ali x

[sunshine star]

Just a quick update, called the decision makers office again this afternoon as I was promised a call back to give me an update. The lady dealing with the appeal now is still waiting for a claim form to arrive from another office so nothing has happend.

She assured me she would call on Tuesday next week. Now I'm thinking that a letter along the lines of 7 months plus is far too long for dealing with this case especially considering they have had all the information requested for the past 2 months and I would like a date by which it will be sent to inverness for processing. Plus some compensation for distress wouldn't go a miss. Any ideas?

[sunshine star]

Ahh that is different then if they are actual conts and you were on such a high wage you will have qualified. For part time earnings it would depend on if you wage and hours varied week to week or if you were on set hours/wage each week. There is an amount of your weekly wage which is disregarded before it effects your benefit, this is £5 for a single person, So you would need to know the weekly benefit rate due during the period you want to claim less the weekly amount of you wage(after the disregard is taken off) to work out your weekly rate. Contributary based JSA is only payable for 182 days, the first 3 days of your claim, unless it links to a previous benefit claim or jury service (linking period is 12 weeks gap between) are classed as waiting days you get no payment for these days and they are not included in your 182 days (god the government know how to make comlicated rules lol). If it was me dealing with your complaint I would recheck your NI account and if it was still wrong ask for your P60's for the relavent year, then would need some wage slips to look into your earnings. Would you have these docs? If not it is a case of you putting the figures you remember in writing and probably a dec maker would have to decide if your figures sounded reasonable and could be accepted. I think you said you had a correct ni statement so it would probably mean it would just be the part time earnings that further info would be needed. Hope that helps with your calculations, at least if you have a rough idea of what is due each week you should have a rough idea how much the arrears will be. The weekly rate of benefit also depends on your age at the time as there are separate rates for over and under 25 year olds but these are available on the internet. Sounds like you just need to get someone to look at this for you and do the manual calculation (will have to be done manually as your original claim will probably have been closed online) , you can prove the ni issue and I think from what you say they already know you had an original claim and the dates.

Good luck

ali x

 

Ali,

 

Trying to now work this out. The first £5. is disregarded - so eg.

 

week earnings

1 30.00

2 35.00

3 30.00

4 nil

5 65.00

6 nil

7 nil

etc etc

 

The rate for the period was approx £56.00 per week in JSA payable to me if I had been given the benefit. Therefore in week 1

30.00 - 5.00 = 25.00; 56.00 - 25.00 = 26.00 is this what I would have received?, week 4 - no earnings therefore full £56.00 awarded?

What is the rate of compensation applied? Is is a percentage on the total or on a rolling figure until the date I should receive it?

many thanks

[sunshine star]

Well just to update everyone, the whole thing was going on far too long and they had sent me a letter asking me questions I had already answered - as the case was given to someone else. I replied with reference to previous letters I had sent them, copies of 65 pages of correspondence and informing them I was taking the matter up with a solicitor and any further information required by them should be sought directly with my sols. Anyway cheque arrived in the post the next day for the JSA owed and another letter informing me that the case had been referred to inverness for a special payment to be awarded in respect of compensation and interest due!

 

 

Just to be picky I am going to follow this up to see if I would have been entitled to further bens following the end of the 26 week period (nothing ventured, nothing gained and after all I paid my taxes and NI for 10 years!).

 

So a big thank you to all those who supported me on this quest and donations will be sent. The remainer will be used to negotiate a full and final settlement on a credit card!

 

Many cheers everyone x

[gizmo111]

So can I now change title to got JSA thanks to CAG?

 

If you need any help wit hthe F&F let us knw

[sunshine star]

Of course it can be changed!