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Chip & PIN FRAUD - Check your statements


JimmyTheOne
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sorry I added an off topic, but the article stated that the fingerprint for an application was something that fraudsters would not want to give. I thought it was a good idea and I am sure it was a cheap as chips idea. It is not whether there is a database but that he was saying that if any processing of data was made without that fingerprint, then it would not be him doing it. I have skim read the previous posters so apologies if this has been said before.

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I have heard from a police officer that this system is open to abuse from crooks and the banks could make it more secure but they cant be bothered. It is mainly eastern europeans and asians perpetuating this crime

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The problem with the fingerprint system is that the lenders are open to ignore it. They will take about as much notice of it as any other NoC on your record (i.e. none). The penalties that the banks will realistically incur for doing so will be roughly the same as the penalties they face for their other numerous breaches of the law (i.e. none).

 

Even then, if some fraudster manages to get hold of information that suggests that all applications must carry a fingerprint, they'll just make the fraudulent applications with their own prints, knowing they will never be compared to any other application (let alone any police database which will hold their prints already). It is also trivially easy for the fraudsters to obtain the print of an innocent third party and endorse the applications with the print.

 

The banks have no incentive to comply with the print requirement, and if you still suffer fraud you lose the benefit of the doubt.

 

I think I'll stick to merely signing my applications, leaving the bank to prove me guilty, rather than having to prove myself innocent.

HSBCLloyds TSBcontractual interestNew Tax Creditscoming for you?NTL/Virgin Media

 

Never give in ... Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. Churchill, 1941

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Lenders ignoring it do it at their peril. The penalty they will receive is full liability for the cost of fraud.

 

You have a fraudsters print on file, recorded in the National Fingerprint Database. If the fraudster has a criminal record at least you can put a name, face etc to the crime. If they've no criminal record then the next time they get pulled - their fingered for fraud.

 

On th contrary banks have a terrific incentive to comply and thus tighten their procedures.

 

Anyone using this system have done just what you aim to do - They can't prove you guilty if it's not your print!

 

If it's for you - go for it. It's like saying to burglars, yeah, go on, break into my house, but you're not allowed to wear gloves.

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Jimmy- can you post the article on here so that everyone is aware as to where the discussion is going. I know it was the Sun but the article was never posted on the CAG

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It is mainly eastern europeans and asians perpetuating this crime
Thanks for that tip, I'll make sure I am doubly careful if I see or hear an Asian or an Eastern European behind me at the CHIPnPIN machine :confused:

Lloyds TSB, Total Charges £900, Claim Filed for £1379 - Settled

 

Sainsbury's Bank Credit Card, Total Charges £90 - Settled.

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Thanks for that tip, I'll make sure I am doubly careful if I see or hear an Asian or an Eastern European behind me at the CHIPnPIN machine :-o

 

Crooks come in all shapes, sizes and colours.

 

More places to add to your list: Check you statements if you live in

Poole or Bournemouth.

 

ATM users in Poole and Bournemouth are being urged to remain vigilant after a worrying wave of card skimming incidents.

 

Stamford.

 

"Unfortunately all the transactions were carried out using chip and pin, so we have no finger prints or signatures."

 

 

 

 

Would have put a link into the Sun article if it were available. You can get the same thing from Home - Scamsdirect.com click on to Binspector Bully (page 1) and then click on to the underlined links at the bottom of the page. Hope this helps.

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I have never trusted Chip and Pin since I (male~) gave my cousin (Female) my credit card.

 

She managed to use it all day without difficulty.

 

Also, has anyone encountered double charges in their statement and when you queried your credit card company, they said that it was an error from the merchant?

 

It happened last year in my old workplace.

 

It turned out that a card company, managed to double charge thousands of cards without anyone finding out about it.

 

Since we worked with a company that accepted credit cards, we figured it out.

 

That was fun and scary.

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You have a fraudsters print on file, recorded in the National Fingerprint Database.

 

There is not database of prints.

 

This is now twice you have contradicted yourself on this topic (last time you decided that comparisons between lenders and retailers were simultaneously relevant and not relevant). Can you make up your mind and decide which you're going for?

 

Two lines I'm going to pick out that you have put forward repeatedly, yet failed to actually put forward any supporting argument. Proof by assertion ad nauseum cuts no ice with me.

 

Lenders ignoring it do it at their peril.

 

On th contrary banks have a terrific incentive to comply and thus tighten their procedures.

 

Given that the simple facts of the matter don't support either of these statements, put up or shut up - come up with something to support your point, or stop advising people to use a system that clearly cannot work in the long term.

HSBCLloyds TSBcontractual interestNew Tax Creditscoming for you?NTL/Virgin Media

 

Never give in ... Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. Churchill, 1941

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Unsurprisingly, Equifax come out in support of it, which is basically the same as a turkey coming out in support of banning Christmas.

 

This still doesn't change the fact that the banks have no incentive to comply.

 

This scheme counteracts a very specific form of fraud, one which has its main impact on the consumer, not the bank. Card fraud is perpetrated in vast amounts each year, and the banks lose a good deal of money from it, whereas the consumer is usually at worst inconvenienced while the issue is rectified. With fraudulent applications, the bank hand out the money, which is a drop in the ocean compared to their existing bad debts, whereas the customer may spend years having to rebuild their lives.

 

As a result, from the point of view of the banks, complying with this is something which costs them a lot of time and money for very little reduction in losses and no potential profit. Not complying with this (bearing in mind a Notice of Correction is not, as incorrectly stated in the article, a legally-binding document) has no additional staffing cost to the bank, and they will probably pursue the debt anyway as they would any other bad debt in the hope that people will cave in before getting to court.

 

So, it's high-cost low-gain vs. low-cost low-gain. Since there is no financial gain for the lender, and it has only limited potential to reduce their losses from fraud, not to mention no real boost to their image (snazzy advertising campaigns can do that for less), they have no financial incentive to invest in it.

 

It would not surprise me if this brought about a new line of fraud - people deliberately applying for credit and running up debt without a print in the knowledge that they can void the agreement later.

HSBCLloyds TSBcontractual interestNew Tax Creditscoming for you?NTL/Virgin Media

 

Never give in ... Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. Churchill, 1941

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meagain- I brought this one up and I think I said at the beginning that I was going off topic so it was not related to CHIP and PIN, but the discussion went down this route which is why the links are there. Right I think Jimmy and you need to continue the topic of CHIP and PIN, ok?

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Back to the topic.

 

Live in Little Abington Cambridgeshire, or visited there recently:

 

Check your statement;

 

She said: "It is clear that this problem is much more widespread than we realised, and it makes me feel very unsafe using debit and credit cards.

 

Anything similar appeared in your local press? If it has, please warn fellow consumers by posting here.

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Norwich update - Keep checking your statements if you've used your plastic in Norwich:

 

I was ripped off 44 times. (Extract):-

 

People who used a city petrol station at the centre of a card cloning [problem] have today been urged to keep checking their accounts after one man told how cash was taken just three days ago.

 

Hundreds of people are believed to have lost money as a result of the suspected fraud at the BP service station in Martineau Lane, near County Hall

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Yet another to add to the list REDHILL

 

MOTORISTS have had hundreds of pounds stolen from their bank accounts days after using their cash cards at a Redhill petrol station

 

 

Reduce your personal risk - get yourself Chip & Signature Credit Cards!

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Anyone out there stil trust the PIN part of Chip and PIN?

 

Feel your card is safe?

 

Read this Hot from the Press.

 

 

John Scott-Hubbard and Brian Warburton doctored the devices so they would record customers' secret pin numbers.

Only one of the 41 chip and pin machines they doctored has been found, meaning hundreds of people could have had their details stolen in the [problem],

 

 

Full story click here.

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Latest: Leatherhead.

 

POLICE investigating a string of credit card scams at petrol stations believe a Leatherhead garage is involved.

 

Ger yourself Chip & Signature Credit Cards - No Liability and stop the crooks getting cash.

 

Story click here.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Used your plastic in Fareham, Gosport, or Porsmouth area?

 

Then check you statements:

 

POLICE have admitted they don't yet know how many incidents of card-skimming or cloning have taken place across the region as it has been hit by a spate of thefts by international gangs.

 

Full article click here.

 

Bolton too:

 

The British police raided a Shell Service station in Bolton in connection with an investigation into debit and credit card fraud.

Full article click here.

 

Mean while in Scotland:

 

Shops report soaring fraud with Chip & PIN.

 

We were shocked at the staggering rise in card fraud despite the introduction of chip and PIN, which was supposed to stamp out credit and debit care misuse."

 

Take Watchdog advice and get yourself Chip & Signature Credit Cards.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Latest revalation:

 

Bury St. Edmunds:

 

POLICE believe card-cloning fraudsters have stolen cash from more than 400 people in west Suffolk.

 

“I cancelled my card straight away and my bank told me there had been lots of these cases. Chip and pin cards were meant to be fraud-proof but it seems to be worse than when you used to sign receipts.”

 

But how the PIN number was copied remains a mystery

 

Story here.

 

If you've used a Petrol Station in Bury St Edmunds.

 

Consider BINning your PIN with your credit card.

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