Chip & PIN FRAUD - Check your statements

[JimmyTheOne]

Another Garage PIN Pad and ATM are attacked by PIN harversters and cloning equipment.

 

Over 1000s victims in HULL. So if you live in Hull, or passed through Hull, used this garages ATM or paid inside for Fuel or Goods using your Debit or Credit Card with a PIN - Check your statements.

 

Article Here.

[JimmyTheOne]

Remember, using a PIN is not necissarily in the consumers interest.

[blueskies]

Chip and pin is not in the customers interests per se, and was never designed to be.

 

If you have card fraud where your card is physically stolen from you and used then you are automatically deemed liable unless proved otherwise by the bank because you have been 'reckless with your PIN'. It doesn't matter that the thief could have followed you into the last shop you went in and saw you put your PIN into the terminal (which normally have very poor shielding around the keypad) and the picked your pocket outside.

 

Under the old state of affairs it was always the bank that was liable unless it could prove you had been negligent.

 

Subtle change in burden of proof = Massive difference in fraud payouts for bank

[Guest NATTIE]

I have read a lot of these things with interest and what i would say is this, if someone has a crime reference number then there is no reason why a refund should not be forthcoming.

[buzby]

I just discovered today that electrical retailer Maplin has suspended all use of PIN in its stores, due to 'an issue'. Customers all have to sign for their goods. Makes you wonder why!

[meagain]

I know where I'm doing my kit shopping from now on then

[k65]

i see no end of peoples pin numbers standing in the que, i think its a very poor system, i normally tell the people on the quiet i know there number and suggest they change it, and im a short sighted old git

[JimmyTheOne]

I have read a lot of these things with interest and what i would say is this, if someone has a crime reference number then there is no reason why a refund should not be forthcoming.

 

Here's one case where a lady had just that (a crime ref no). it wasn't until the media became involved the the situation was resolved.

 

Why Wont Bank Believe Me.

[buzby]

You can be given a crime ref number for just about anything, and even make one up for all the good it will do. I switched to PIN & Signature after telling my bank that I wasn;t going to be compromised by anyone hitting on my code and the bank saying this was proof of disclosure.

[JimmyTheOne]

Keep checking them statements:

 

Norwich This Time:

 

Hundreds of people have lost money as a result of the suspected fraud at the BP service station

[JimmyTheOne]

Add Cambridge & Portsmouth to the ever growing list.

 

Victims must now be in the thousands, and this is over only a few months!

[TopBird]

Can you refuse to enter your pin and ask to sign a slip instead? I have complained in certain shops due to the fact their machines are fixed and people behind me can quite easily see me enter my pin. I have been told by shops in the past that they are unable to override the pin entering, yet when my card didn't work I was allowed to sign a slip!!

 

I feel really uneasy about the whole pin saga now and would prefer to sign!

[buzby]

Can you refuse to enter your pin and ask to sign a slip instead? !

 

No you can't - the retailer would be within his rights to refuse the transaction. However, you can ask your card issuer for a Chip & Signature card (which replaces your Chip & PIN card). it works the same way, however the retailer will ask for a signature instead. The downside, is that is you also lose any ability to take cash from an ATM as the PIN is removed from both the mag stripe and Chip!

[TopBird]

No you can't - the retailer would be within his rights to refuse the transaction. However, you can ask your card issuer for a Chip & Signature card (which replaces your Chip & PIN card). it works the same way, however the retailer will ask for a signature instead. The downside, is that is you also lose any ability to take cash from an ATM as the PIN is removed from both the mag stripe and Chip!

 

How annoying! I shall just to have to keep away from the shops I complain in then!! I dont think I can replace my card with one I cant withdraw cash with.

[buzby]

Funnily enough, I've found this much useful - especially with the rise in fee-paying ATMs. My local 24x7 ASDA happily dish out up to £50, so I'm less likley to fritter it away than I was before - so it actually still worked to my advantage!

[sunshine94]

i work in a garden center...we get lots of pensioners coming in every day that have debit/credit cards and can't remember the numbers. they ask if they can sign for their purchases but we have no way to override the pin system anymore since 14 feb. so most of them put on their glasses and go ferreting about in the same purse/wallet they keep their cards in for the pin number that they have written down so they can remember it! (i always tell them off for it but they say..." i can never remember it!)it scares me! these lovely people are so open to fraud because they don't believe that it will ever happen to them or even know it could happen to them.

I really don't mean to sound patronising or rude because i love my customers...they are all mostly customers that come here every week and i know them by name, or at least by sight, and i look after them. i will put a "sign up for the over 60's day sign"(on tusedays, or any sign we have for the day, in front of the pin machine as a sort of shield on the counter every morning so that people behind them can't see them putting in their pin no. i've even had some older ladies(and gents) that are too short sighted that will tell me their pin no.s for me to put in for them! (if anyone is behind them i will stop them at the first number...when i realise what they are doing(!)and ask them to whisper it to me.)

as someone who works on tills i wish we could do something for the older generation(i hope i don't offend anyone by saying that) who really just want to sign their name and not have to remember a number, and then possibly get fleeced. but at present ,we can't.

 

becca xxx

[Guest NATTIE]

I think as others have said, you can change to CHIP and Signature cards. Just to briefly go off on a tangent, there was an article recently on a guy who has recently contacted the CRA's to state that only an application form with his signature and finger print would be considered valid. The only cost to him was an ink pad. Sounded a good idea to me

[buzby]

Sounded a good idea to me

 

It doesn't to me. If the CRA doesn't have the fingerprint already, how would they know if the one supplied on the form is genuine? Also, by supplying it you give permission for them to disseminate this signature across all their associates, clients and databases. It stinks, and to high heaven!

[JimmyTheOne]

It doesn't to me. If the CRA doesn't have the fingerprint already, how would they know if the one supplied on the form is genuine? Also, by supplying it you give permission for them to disseminate this signature across all their associates, clients and databases. It stinks, and to high heaven!

 

 

The whole point is that the CRA's don't need to compare prints, and a print is only submitted with the Notice of Correction to deter spoofing. The actual print does not appear in the Notice of Correction itself.

 

The NOC is used to inform ALL banks, lenders, credit card companies etc that if they don't receive a print on a application form, then the application shouldn't be processed and treated as attempted fraud.

 

There is only one slight drawback. If you apply on-line for a credit card - you will get an instant decision that your application has been successful BUT the application itself won't be fully processed until you've returned a paper copy, signed and printed per your instructions. A small price to pay for added security.

 

Instant Credit Applications ie in store - can should be far more secure. The NOC facility should be available to the lender in real-time.

 

Advantages to anyone using this system are as follows:

 

It's primarily a deterrent

 

It provides a free indication and warning of attempted ID theft.

 

In the very slight chance of someone submitting their print when applying for something then the genuine person can prove without doubt that it isn't their print.

 

In addition it is possibly the only system available that produces an auditable trail to help identify a perpetrator.

 

The Notice of Correction follows your file. Therefore even if you change address without informing all the relevant parties, you are still protected.

 

If you don't switch bank accounts, apply for credit cards or loans then you only ever need to do this once.

 

You have a choice, if it's for you go for it - crooks don't have that choice.

[JimmyTheOne]

It doesn't to me. If the CRA doesn't have the fingerprint already, how would they know if the one supplied on the form is genuine? Also, by supplying it you give permission for them to disseminate this signature across all their associates, clients and databases. It stinks, and to high heaven!

 

 

The whole point is that the CRA's don't need to compare prints, and a print is only submitted with the Notice of Correction to deter spoofing. The actual print does not appear in the Notice of Correction itself.

 

The NOC is used to inform ALL banks, lenders, credit card companies etc that if they don't receive a print on a application form, then the application shouldn't be processed and treated as attempted fraud.

 

There is only one slight drawback. If you apply on-line for a credit card - you will get an instant decision that your application has been successful BUT the application itself won't be fully processed until you've returned a paper copy, signed and printed per your instructions. A small price to pay for added security.

 

Instant Credit Applications ie in store - can should be far more secure. The NOC facility should be available to the lender in real-time.

 

Advantages to anyone using this system are as follows:

 

It's primarily a deterrent

 

It provides a free indication and warning of attempted ID theft.

 

In the very slight chance of someone submitting their print when applying for something then the genuine person can prove without doubt that it isn't their print.

 

In addition it is possibly the only system available that produces an auditable trail to help identify a perpetrator.

 

The Notice of Correction follows your file. Therefore even if you change address without informing all the relevant parties, you are still protected.

 

If you don't switch bank accounts, apply for credit cards or loans then you only ever need to do this once.

 

You have a choice, if it's for you go for it - crooks don't have that choice.

[JimmyTheOne]

It doesn't to me. If the CRA doesn't have the fingerprint already, how would they know if the one supplied on the form is genuine? Also, by supplying it you give permission for them to disseminate this signature across all their associates, clients and databases. It stinks, and to high heaven!

 

Off topic but I must respond as I use the above system.

 

The whole point is that the CRA's don't need to compare prints. There is not database of prints. A print is only submitted with the Notice of Correction to deter spoofing. The actual print does not appear in the Notice of Correction itself.

 

The NOC is used to inform ALL banks, lenders, credit card companies etc that if they don't receive a print on a application form, then the application shouldn't be processed and treated as attempted fraud.

 

There is only one slight drawback. If you apply on-line for a credit card - you will get an instant decision that your application has been successful BUT the application itself won't be fully processed until you've returned a paper copy, signed and printed per your instructions. A small price to pay for added security.

 

Instant Credit Applications ie in store - should be far more secure. The NOC facility should be available to the lender in real-time.

 

Advantages to anyone using this system are as follows:

 

It's primarily a deterrent

 

It provides a free indication and warning of attempted ID theft.

 

In the very slight chance of someone submitting their print when applying for something then the genuine person can prove without doubt that it isn't their print.

 

This is possibly the only system available that produces an auditable trail to help identify a perpetrator - their print.

 

The Notice of Correction follows your file. Therefore even if you change address without informing all the relevant parties, you are still protected.

 

If you don't switch bank accounts, apply for credit cards or loans then you only ever need to do this once.

 

Even after your death, your nearest and dearest have something less to be concerned about.

 

You have a choice, if it's for you go for it - crooks don't have that choice.

[JimmyTheOne]

Disregard this - sorry. I haven't a clue how to remove this.

[JimmyTheOne]

How annoying! I shall just to have to keep away from the shops I complain in then!! I dont think I can replace my card with one I cant withdraw cash with.

 

 

You can use your Chip & Signature Debit Card to get cash back in supermarkets, etc.

 

The only reason for having a PIN with a Credit Card is if you do want access to withdraw expensive cash from an ATM.

 

TIP:

 

Use one PIN only with a Banks Own Savings Card. These cards can only be used at ATMs. Keep small amounts of cash in this account to be used if and when required. Transfer money as required into this type of account on-line.

 

All other cards - continue to sign.

[buzby]

Firstly a NOC is not a legal document and has no standing, other than provding s CRA with additional information to display TO ITS CLIENTS. Whilst I'm not privvy to how CRA's manage their database, but they're not going to sit there with filing cabinets of inky bids of paper all supposedly being there only to prevent fraud for the individuals who created them.

 

How do you know the fingerprint is not stored with the NoC? It's certainly not going to be too far away, as it will form part of that persons credit file, and will a contract for a mobile phone be deemed to be invalid without a thumbprint, if the retailer doesn't know one is required? I don't think so - and in the case of a dispute, contract law will prevail and a notew on a CRA file is so far removed from that it's not going to work in practice. Just like the Direct Debit 'guarantee', I can see the CRAs paying lip service to this because if gives them more data on the individual. As to it actually helping that individual, I seriously doubt it.

 

You can just as easily ensure your data is not compromised by never providing the same data twice. This may trip up CRA's but their goals are not mine, and a fingerprint or photo ID request by CRAs is but a small step from them eventually asking for a DNA swab. Don't laugh - it's already been suggested.

[JimmyTheOne]

Let's agree to disagree - As I said in my posting. If this is for you go for it, if not then it's your choice.

 

Crooks don't get that choice