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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Log book loans try and strike again


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HI

Been reading up on all your peoples comments regarding LBL due to the problem I had this morning, waking up to find a clamp on my car!!

After ringing LBL's to find out how come I only missed one payment why they have clamp my car.

 

First the history of loan

 

Loan amount £2000. In October 2006

Car Value £10000.

Missed one payment of £257 but they say its 7 weeks over due as I pay monthy and always a month infront. But to my working out that means Im only 3 weeks behind.

Signed the agreement at home

Wasnt told it was a bill of sale, if i was told this i wouldnt have taken the loan out.icon8.gif

 

So this morning I rang them up and Im told that if I didnt pay the full amount to clear the loan, which now turns out to be £5883.23 in full they would take the car within an hour. How can £2000. turn into £6000 when Im only a month behind??

Or I could pay £1860.00 for the arrears for the 7 weeks!!! so i asked why is it this much as for 8 weeks in would only be £514.00 Im told the is how much its gone upto because of the late payment charges. I told them Ive only missed one payment, and was told that no because they count it as weekly payments not monthy. icon4.gif

 

So i told them ok they will have to give me longer than the hour the said i had to go get the money for them and i need to get to a bank, and I've not got a car to use, so I rang the clamping guy back up told him I need 2 hours which he agreed was ok. icon12.gif

I then used an angle grinder and cut down both sides of the clamp. As a criminal act is being described it is sufficient to show only what was done and not how it was done. was panicing a little but it only took 10 mins.icon10.gif

 

I rang the clamping guy back up told him where i put his clamp and told him to get it welded back up to send me the bill, I was nice to him about it so to be honest he was nice about it. He did start to say that I had broken the law, but I told him that there was no court order so really i think he had broken the law by clamping it.icon11.gif

 

So I've moved my car and went and brought another one to use for now (was lucky that i could afford to do this). The car is way out of reach and to be honest I am not paying back more than the money i borrowed as Im not being bullied and lied to.

 

So now legally how do i stand? thought you people would be this best people to ask.

 

Do LBL put the car on HPI list? if so can I take the car off HPI?

Can I sell the car on?

And can they take the car from the person i sell it to?

 

Kind regards

Buzz

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It seems their practices are somewhat dubious. Have they at any time sent you a default notice, or any correspondance relating to the missed payment? And do you have a copy of the original agreement you signed, including the alleged bill of sale?

 

It might be worthwhile writing to them stating that you are disputing the account and to cease all recovery action whilst the dispute is ongoing. Also ask them for a full breakdown of your account including all the charges they have added. If they don't respond then send in a DPA subject access request. And consider going to the local trading standards office.

 

You could contact HPI and ask them if there is anything on the vehicle. Finally, do you still have your V5 registration document?

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Hi

Yep Ive still got all the paperwork relating to the loan, I will write to them regarding asking for a breakdown, they did send me letters but at the time I was away in spain over xmas and new year and only got back last week, and to be honest only opened a couple of there letters and they where just saying Ive missed a payment and been charge £12 for the letter, so I didnt open any of the others as thought they'd all be the same, But opening them yesterday I found that there was a default notice giving me 7 days!!

They have the V5 but I will apply for a new one today, can i do this as I didnt sign the one they have so they shouldnt be able to use it.

Kind regards

 

Buzz

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@BuZzUK:

 

You obviously hav'nt read all the threads the position on the V5 is clear, it is not proof of ownership but proof of registered keeper only.:!:

 

Your replacement V5 will show as "Duplicate" and it will be recorded as such,also they Lbl ltd will be notified via various means that an application has been recieved for a duplicate.:eek:

 

As far as the V5 you did'nt sign the one in there possesion does'nt matter it's got your personal details on remmember.

 

They will also know within a resonable time that you have a second vehicle if thats the case as you stated so beware!,also not a good idea to state what you have been spending your money on xmas in spain etc nor announcing every move you make it therfore is very likely that they will act sooner rather than later this is a public forum?.:!:

CaLL Me On INTeRNeT CaLLS @ "NoBBY_ONLiNE":D

 

NB: Any advice given ?(if any) is given freely and without constraints,it and any information is based upon personal knowledge and personal experiences and/or views it should therefore only be regarded as advice and not a statement of the law, for that you should seek professional legal advice!.

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Hi Buzzuk referring to your first post technically LBL own the car not you so hiding the car could be classed as theft.

How much off the agreement have you paid? If you have paid just over half you should be able to exercise your right to terminate the contract and hand the car back.

As for the wheel clamp good on you but the clamping company could take you to court for criminal damage and could all so bring the police in, as the clamping company own the clamp.

If the car is on a HPI agreement then it will be listed and you can not remove it from the list until all out standing finance is paid off and if you sell the car on with out the permission of the finance company they car repossess the car from the new owner plus anyone coming to look at the car is lightly to do an HPI check anyway and will see that it has out standing finance on it.

Referring to your third post if you are the registered own off this car you should have the V5 document. So you must check this. I don’t think that the DVLA would issue one if you are not the registered keeper.

I think that you should take Rob's advice.

Sorry I can’t be of more help.

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Hi V J R

If you look at what I said the payment wasnt made while I was in Spain but I couldnt do anything about that, at the time I didnt know that money wasnt paid into that account, it was only when I got back last week that I received the letters from them saying that the payment was late, I pay them monthy they count it as weekly and put £1300 extra in cost for me missing just one payment!!!! About me buying another car, this as nothing to do with them. The loan was on the other.

The clamping guy was cool about it all, and I checked up and he needs a county court judgement and then a court order before they can clamp it, so really he was breaking the law for clamping it. And even if not and they did me for criminal damage then hmm think I'd rather pay £200 in a fine than lose £10,000 to a company that needs to be looked into.

So thats was my next step, after reading some of the comments on this thread and others and this now happening to me, I thought its time i rang an old buddy of mine that I used to serve with, who is now a freelance undercover reporter, so the next step is getting LBL the right public advertising they DONT want to have, and letting people really know how they work. So hes working along side me on this one.

I would have paid them the money they was outstanding for the 2 months no worries, or even the £2000 I had borrowed + the monthly payment I had missed, but for them to turn round and ask for £6000 after only borrowing £2000 for 3 months at which i only missed 1 months payment is a CON. So the only way I can see me getting this into court is for them to take it there, at which after the phone recording I have of them telling me I now owe £6000 and have an hour to pay, and them not telling me that I was signing a bill of sale, when I even asked the person before I took the loan out, that if for some reason a payment was late what happens, and told that if your over 2 months late they will apply to court so they can get a court order to collect the car, but then it takes another month for that to happen, so would give you the time to catch the payment up, and then they couldnt do anything about it... hmmm isnt that being misslead by there staff??? because that was total [edit]

Also just found out today for anyone out there that is going through this problem, I've spoken to a pawn broker and hes taken a copy of there LBL contract and looking into this, as he told me they work the same as a pawn broker so he thinks they dont have a legal leg to stand on as there was a case involving a farmer that leant money on the papers for some cows he owned, and it ended up in court and the firm lost because when they lend money they are suppose to keep the item the are lending on and not paperwork to the item be it cows or a car thats why pawnprokers dont lend money for cars on there logbooks, and as he said if its one law for one then the law stands for all!! so will keep you informed with what he finds out for us.

Kind regards

 

Buzz

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Hi Buzzuk,

 

It is highly likely that the original bill of sale that secured the loan against your vehicle is invalid. LBL have a reputation for completing these incorrectly, there is also the potential that the original CCA agreement is invalid.

 

You need to get a specialist (CAB or solicitor) to check the bill of sale to see whether it has the relevant required clauses, that the interest rates match the original loan and the consideration amounts are correct. These are just a few things that there agreements fall down on, but as I said you will need a specialist to check them.

 

If the bill of sale is proven to be invalid then they cannot remove your car and you are left with an unsecured loan, all be it at a very high interest rate. However if the credit agreement is invalid then thats a big bonus as you wont have to pay and they cant pursue it through the courts.

 

Really go for it with LBL there has been a lot of success with proving bills of sale are invalid.

 

Good luck.

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  • 2 weeks later...

hi everyone i'm new to this, please be patient with me lol. about lbl my hubby and i took out a loan and have got behind on our payments too i read on some of this that the bill of sale is hard to get out of them but we have ours the charge for credit is more than the actual loan which is rediculous, however i have asked an official body to investigate this company and its dealings. have any of you had any success with obtaining vehicle tax with a photcopied V5 our p/o will not accept this they said we could have stole the vehicle (yeah right). we get a letter every 5 days which incurrs 12.00 charge so i wrote to them and asked it to be stopped and a date when i'll catch up payments let's see what happens next week.

thank you for reading

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There's only one person who has effectivley brought these people to book so far and thats myself!,the trouble is you are all looking at the complicated legal scenarios but guess what it's the simplest of things that are often overlooked thats the killer?.:o

 

I've said many times and i'll say it agian i am waiting for a posting of success against Lbl ltd other than myself take a look in this thread all persons here have failed legally, guess what i'm still waiting!.:roll:

 

Regards.

 

V J R,

 

Are you prepared to share your knowledge with other people here?

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Guest DEATHLORD

how is V J R I think you should say what susess you say you had!

Look at their web page and how they work it says it all.

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how is V J R I think you should say what susess you say you had!

Look at their web page and how they work it says it all.

 

I suggest you go read all of the threads in this forum concerning this company and it's practises,all of the answers are there i should know i started the ball rolling in the first place.:eek:

 

Ohhhh btw take a look at there little known forum they use you aint seen nothing yet?.:-D

CaLL Me On INTeRNeT CaLLS @ "NoBBY_ONLiNE":D

 

NB: Any advice given ?(if any) is given freely and without constraints,it and any information is based upon personal knowledge and personal experiences and/or views it should therefore only be regarded as advice and not a statement of the law, for that you should seek professional legal advice!.

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  • 2 weeks later...
There's only one person who has effectivley brought these people to book so far and thats myself!,the trouble is you are all looking at the complicated legal scenarios but guess what it's the simplest of things that are often overlooked thats the killer?.:o

 

I've said many times and i'll say it agian i am waiting for a posting of success against Lbl ltd other than myself take a look in this thread all persons here have failed legally, guess what i'm still waiting!.:roll:

 

Regards.

 

You won't have to wait much longer I am taking this company to the cleaners they will wish they had never tried to cheat me out of my car . I have had legal advise from C.A.B. trading standards, the police, Scottish executive, 2 sheriffs officers , and they have all said that without a court order LBL stole my car .

 

I am in the middle of setting up a court case at the moment and I am 100% sure I will win . I have also contacted the bbc watchdog and the press so everyone will no all about LBL pretty soon but I have to get the court case over first before I can get the media involved . Alex

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You won't have to wait much longer I am taking this company to the cleaners they will wish they had never tried to cheat me out of my car . I have had legal advise from C.A.B. trading standards, the police, Scottish executive, 2 sheriffs officers , and they have all said that without a court order LBL stole my car .

 

I am in the middle of setting up a court case at the moment and I am 100% sure I will win . I have also contacted the bbc watchdog and the press so everyone will no all about LBL pretty soon but I have to get the court case over first before I can get the media involved . Alex

 

 

 

HI good on you they seem to be copying loans4logbooks totally diferent company like to see them clamp my 4x4:D

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Hi

 

I'd be interested to find out how you get on.

 

I've had experience of LBL's and their attitude stinks. They refunded some of their charges in line with the Office of Fair Trading's guideline of £12 a charge but won't accept that a fair price to charge for letters and phone calls should be around 50p a time.

 

They've sent letters and charged for them even when the payment hasn't been late.

 

The charges on the account are equal to the amount outstanding and the amount paid paid back is nearly double the amount borrowed. Then of course there is the interest rate of 273%!

 

They are as bad as the old fashioned money lenders maybe even worse

 

Good luck with the small claims court and let us know how you get on.

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Hi

 

I'd be interested to find out how you get on.

 

I've had experience of LBL's and their attitude stinks. They refunded some of their charges in line with the Office of Fair Trading's guideline of £12 a charge but won't accept that a fair price to charge for letters and phone calls should be around 50p a time.

 

They've sent letters and charged for them even when the payment hasn't been late.

 

The charges on the account are equal to the amount outstanding and the amount paid paid back is nearly double the amount borrowed. Then of course there is the interest rate of 273%!

 

They are as bad as the old fashioned money lenders maybe even worse

 

Good luck with the small claims court and let us know how you get on

 

 

I had a loan with them and the interest rate Was 375% I borrowed £600 and I payed them back over £1400 and they got my own car valued at £1250 . I am doing every thing I can to get my money or my car back through the courts (summary cause action) . Cheers Alex

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hi couldnt believe how many other people have had problems with lbl.

after plenty of harasment from them i got woke up one morning at 7am to a vehicle recovery firm,coulnt ring them because of the time werent open

and was told if i didnt let them they would break in and take it,so i just gave in thinking ther was nothing else i could do. this was about 4 weeks ago,does anybody no if i cud do anything now or am to late.

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hi couldnt believe how many other people have had problems with lbl.

after plenty of harasment from them i got woke up one morning at 7am to a vehicle recovery firm,coulnt ring them because of the time werent open

and was told if i didnt let them they would break in and take it,so i just gave in thinking ther was nothing else i could do. this was about 4 weeks ago,does anybody no if i cud do anything now or am to late.

 

Did they have a court order ??? do you know who it was that uplifted the car (Gemini) did you give them perrmission to take the car ??? . Its not to late because I had my car taken on the 12th of December and I am still fighting to get it back I have told the police and the DVLA that the car was stolen .First thing to do is to get in touch with trading standards , C,A,B and see what they say about it I have a feeling that they would not have got a court order though so you should be able to do something depending was you loan aggrement says . Please get back in touch with me and I might be able to help further if I had more info about your case . Cheers Alex

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no court order just 2 men from anglia uk ltd auction house,felt like i had no choice they were taking it without consent anyway,also said he had spoken to police and told them what they where doing,still ave all original documents and i am sat replying withvehicle receipt from anglia in hand.

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no court order just 2 men from anglia uk ltd auction house,felt like i had no choice they were taking it without consent anyway,also said he had spoken to police and told them what they where doing,still ave all original documents and i am sat replying withvehicle receipt from anglia in hand.

 

Did they get the keys for the car ?? I wish I could help you more I know how gutted you must be !!! . Did you pay more than a third of the loan balance ?? there should be a part on your loan agreement that says they cannot take your car without a court order if you have payed more than a third . I would also get in touch with your local police and see if they did let the police know what they were doing I very much if doubt they did . I have reported my car stolen but the police have sent a report to the procurator fiscal to see if a crime has been commited . I will keep you informed about my case and I will try and help you with any advise I can . Alex

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yea got keys,thought if i had no choice they mite as well ave it intact(stupid i no now)i prob ave paid more than a third as i was 300 in credit in august(which they conveniently forgot)then upto 200 in sept and upto 400 on november will get exact amounts when hubby gets out of bed the loan amount was approx 2,400so if my sums are rite a third wud be approx 700.

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