Council Tax and Bailiffs ref only - NO POSTS ALLOWED

[morphias22]

hi all,

can somebody help?,

i have a few council tax debts going back over 3 years. i had the bailiffs call for one of them, after failing to pay one month they came back and i ended up signing a walkin possesion.

 

question 1

the walkin possesion was signed at a previous address that i lived, it lists the items and says these items may be removed for sale from the address shown above ( my previous address ) now i have moved does this still apply? as it does not say anywhere on the form that it applys to any property that i might reside it only states 'from the address shown above'.

 

question 2.

i have today recieved a summary breakdown of my account with the bailiffs, listing 3 accounts. the first 1st accounts it says they visited my address on 7 occaisions listing the dates a 1st bailiffs fee of £22.50 and a second bailiffs fee of £16.50 a levy fee of £44.07 a walking possesion fee of £11.00 and attendance fees of £180.00.

on the second account it list that they visited my property on 5 occaisions all 5 being of the same dates as the first account (above). with a first bailiffs fee of £22.50 a levy fee of £52.74 a walking possesion fee of £11.00 and attendance fees of £270.00

can they charge me £180 for one and £270 for the other when they visited on the same dates?

i also know there was only one walking possesion signed so can they charge me twice?

and what are levy fees?

i am also questioning the amount of visits.

it also seems that they are charging me for account 3 which i think im paying direct to the council through a court order.

i am going to contact the council tomorow a get a breakdown of what im paying and to whom. will let you know what happens

 

also is there a template of a letter i can send the bailiffs stating i want the council to investigate the company there actions and charges, and that i will pay the council direct? i have read previous threds and this is what i want to do but im worried about the walking possesion if i stop paying them, i have been paying regular every mont for about a year now of £50 amonth as well as 12% of my earnings for the court order, which averages out to about £50 per week.

can someone please advise me??? will be so greatfull as this is a right mess. many thanks

[The Watcher]

 

question 1

the walkin possesion was signed at a previous address that i lived, it lists the items and says these items may be removed for sale from the address shown above ( my previous address ) now i have moved does this still apply? as it does not say anywhere on the form that it applys to any property that i might reside it only states 'from the address shown above'.

 

I think you may be on dodgy ground here as I believe a walking possession agreement states that you will not remove the goods (and I suspect that taking them to your new address will count as having removed them).

 

Hopefully someone will advise further on the other matters.

[FunnyMan]

Morphias,

 

I have tried finding reference to your situation online, however at the the moment have drawn a blank. I agree with Watcher that this could be 'dodgy ground' as far as removing the items from the place where they were listed.

 

However, the Human Rights Act, allows for freedom of movement, and as you have changed your permanent place of abode (I am presuming here) it would seem that you have simply taken your goods with you to your new permenant place of abode, and as this presumably is still within the legal jurisdiction you have 'not' removed them from your possession or the legal jurisdiction. You have just continued to make use of them in a fit and proper manner.

 

An example would be if a camera was listed in the possessions listed, you go to the christening of a relative and take the camera with you to take pictures. Technically this would be a breach of the conditions of the 'Walking Possession' agreement that you signed. However, all you would in fact be doing is taking the camera from your place of abode to use it in a fit and proper manner with no intent to deny or deprive the right of the creditor (note not the bailiffs) to seize it should you breach the agreement reached.

 

I think here the court would simply say that you have changed your place of abode and have not tried to deprive the creditor.

 

The fact that the bailiffs have gained entry to your previous place of abode and whether this gives them the right of entry to your new abode is a far more tricky question. However, as I have not been able to find case law on this yet I would think that they may well not have the right as the law clearly states that it is the 'address' that they have access to. A decision on this would be required to be made by the court, and of course you would have to be given notice of a court hearing where you would be able to argue your case to the judge.

 

Also, remember that you have a duty of care to the items that have been levied upon, if you did not take them with you when you moved then you would not be able to care for the goods and keep them safe and in good order, therefore it is only logical that you took them with you to your new abode.

 

On the point of fees I would ask for a breakdown of the 'attendance fees' for both counts, at first sight these would seem to be illegal as they have already charged the maximum permitted, however, can you clarify please at which visit to your knowledge they gained access to the property and obtained a Walking Possession order?

[missflip]

hi

 

im new on here

i am paying the bailiffs 25 quid a week and have been doing so since last october for council tax arrears.

No bailiff has been in the house and nothing was signed should i carry on paying or start paying to the council?

now i had them around again today for last years tax. no ones been in but my daughter opened the door and took the notice from him does this mean hes had walking in possesion?

hope someone can answer my questions because im sick of then turning up at the door and i cant get enough money to pay it all off.

[setmefree]

how old is your daughter

[FunnyMan]

Hi Missflip,

 

Unless the bailiff entered the house he has not gained peaceful entry, he therefore cannot levy your goods (make a list) which means he and you have not signed such a list therefore no Walking Possession obtained.

 

Now down to the nitty-gritty. How much are the Council Tax debts and how much have you been charged by the bailiffs (of course there will have been court fees on top of the CouncilTax debt). Let us check that you are only paying what you are meant to pay.

[stonewall]

Hi.zooman / or anyone . im new to baliffs / and PC,s . im trying to send some of your letters to a friend so that she can edit and print them off for me .

what am i not doin right ?.

 

yesterday i was alone . today we are many .

[missflip]

how old is your daughter

hi my daughter is 13years old.

[FunnyMan]

Missflip, sorry for this personal question but are you on benefits?

[missflip]

Missflip, sorry for this personal question but are you on benefits?

im get working tax and family tax as i work 30 hours but with paying years 05 06 to the bailiffs i cant afford anymore untill they are paid off thanks for your help

[FunnyMan]

Sorry for the personal question, if you had been receiving certain other benefits then there would have been a cap on how much the council could reclaim each week.

 

Right as I have said above the bailiff does not have a right to enter your property. The fact that the door was opened to the bailiff does not mean he gained entry. Check how much the fees are that the bailiffs have charged you, as this is the first visit on this court order the bill should be the outstanding Council Tax for last year plus £25 for court fees (approx.) and a maximum of £24.50 for the visit by the bailiff.

 

I would also PM the member Herbie with the name of the bailiff on the form that was given to your daughter (Herbie is really helpful and she can check to make sure the bailiff is certificated - they must be to handle Council Tax Court Orders).

 

Also Herbie can give great advise, I know from personal experience.

 

Let us know how things are going, remember also that if the bailiff cannot get the money from you they will hand it back to the Council, and as the bailiffs can only charge for one more visit (set maximum fee of £18) so after that they are working for nothing and this is usually when the file is handed back, although some bailiffs do make a third call before sending the file back. If the file is handed back to the council then offer to repay at a lower amount, you are not meant to be on the breadline.

 

Hope this helps, but please do PM Herbie, she is very approachable and helpful.

[Guest Herbie]

Could you provide details of the fees that have been charged so far and also how much the debt was for.

 

Also what was said in the letter that the bailiff passed to your daughter and which company of bailiffs are we talking about.

[setmefree]

hi my daughter is 13years old.

 

Well i'm sure the Bailiff had no right to hand the letter to your daughter as she is under 18, infact he should have just walked away..Herbie will know more:)

[snowjo]

Hi Zooman

 

Does this apply to business council tax arrears and bailiffs as well

 

Having a nightmare

 

Snowjo

[muggles]

please if there is any one out there who can help me i will be eternally grateful, i will try to keep this brief

i have struggled with my debts for awhile the council tax is the 1 i am in the most bother with

i had a visit some time ago from a gentleman ( i use the term loosely), at my door saying that he wanted to discuss repayment of our council tax arrears, i stupidly let him in only when in the room did he say he was the bailiff and started to right a list of goods to be taken ( i know i should have checked his id properly i just saw his picture, i am just to trusting n stupid,) we had to sign,we continued to struggle paying everything whilst i am reclaiming bank charges ( i am so close to the end i have been told that they will settle out of court and i will hear from them by the end of the week, this money is more that enuff to clear this debt )

the big panik is the bailiffs are coming tommorrow to " discuss payment".

i really dont know what to do i know i have waited to long. if any one can advise pleease.sorry i have put this somewhere else as well n cant find it

vbrep_register("845886")

[casbah]

Hi Everyone

My local council took me to court in july 2006 for council tax arrears for the 06/07 tax year. In October I owed them £479.00 approx. My council allow people to pay their council tax over a 10 month period, this amount is the equivelent of 4 months. So up until October I was up to date but they sent it to the bailiffs. The bailiffs have insisted I pay £50 per week, I have paid at least £550. and I dont want to pay anymore, as far as I am concerned, the bailiffs have been paid £85 for three letters so why should I pay them anymore? I know this means I am refusing to pay but I don't feel their bill is justified. I have been stung by the bailiffs for the last 4 yrs due to my councils haste in going to court. Do the bailiffs ahve to pay the council out of money received or can they take their fees first then pay the council the balance?

[missflip]

Sorry for the personal question, if you had been receiving certain other benefits then there would have been a cap on how much the council could reclaim each week.

 

Right as I have said above the bailiff does not have a right to enter your property. The fact that the door was opened to the bailiff does not mean he gained entry. Check how much the fees are that the bailiffs have charged you, as this is the first visit on this court order the bill should be the outstanding Council Tax for last year plus £25 for court fees (approx.) and a maximum of £24.50 for the visit by the bailiff.

 

I would also PM the member Herbie with the name of the bailiff on the form that was given to your daughter (Herbie is really helpful and she can check to make sure the bailiff is certificated - they must be to handle Council Tax Court Orders).

 

Also Herbie can give great advise, I know from personal experience.

 

Let us know how things are going, remember also that if the bailiff cannot get the money from you they will hand it back to the Council, and as the bailiffs can only charge for one more visit (set maximum fee of £18) so after that they are working for nothing and this is usually when the file is handed back, although some bailiffs do make a third call before sending the file back. If the file is handed back to the council then offer to repay at a lower amount, you are not meant to be on the breadline.

 

Hope this helps, but please do PM Herbie, she is very approachable and helpful.

hi

the bailiff called for the 3rd time today and has left a notice of distress and inventory of a trailer in garden and an old wheelbarrow!!!!! ont his notice it says walking possesion agreement well no one has signed it so why has he left it?

what will happen now i am going to write the template letter on here but it says i have 5 days to pay the money!

are rossendales likely to send the debt back?

 

i have been in touch with lincoln council and they say they cannot take the debt back.

please help

regards

[Bajer]

Hello All,

 

Just want to say that I had a run-in with Newlyn re outstanding council tax to amount of £702.00, which by the time they finished rose to £856.00 . Difference in amount being their charges for sending 3 letters and making harrassing telephone calls threatening to send a baliff and van to collect my furniture..not that they'd even done a walking posession.

 

Anyway I've had quite a few dealings with Baliffs in my time so had no intention of being intimidated, just didn't answer the phone and left it on the answer machine. Anyway while I was ill last month they managed to scare my son into promising to send them £380.00 immediatley and £300.00 a month thereafter. I put a stop to that and sent £200 with a refusal to send anymore, hence the harassing calls.

 

Decided enough was enough and printed out your letter, but instead of sending Newlyn the instalment cheque, I sent it with a copy of the letter to the council (Newlyn wasn't getting hold of my money).

 

Received a reply today from Newlyn with ..

 

Amount owed to ##### Council £0.00...we are investigating the matter concern (that'll be their charges) and will answer within 21 days..despite in the letter stating I wanted an answer back within 14.

 

So looks like they have handed the file back to the council. Where I'll be sending the promised instalments, and will await their investigation results and let you know if anything happens.

 

Just like to thank everyone here. Don't anyone be intimidated or live in fear of these people no matter that they might try bullyboy tactics. It's important as already said here, that you don't speak to them or anyone else, get everything down on paper and use the templates that are on here. Certainly saved me a lot of time having to type my own, and certainly had the desired result, which is more important.

 

Take care

 

Bajer

[Bridezilla]

I was extremely upset last month when a bailiff visited me at work regarding an outstanding bill from 2004, from a property that my ex lived in. I followed the advice posted on the website and put in a formal complaint to the council and argued regarding the "supposed" amount I was liable for. The council are not budging and have said unless I have mail from then with another address on I must pay the bill. I found out the original bill was £180 - which was joint liable. They now want £175.00 from me, even though the bailiffs fees have supposedly been paid!!! I offered to pay half of the original bill just to close this matter - they refused point blank!

I have now moved onto the next step of your advice and put a complaint into the local governemtn ombudsman and have asked them to investigate this matter further.

Thanks for the advice, I probably would have just given the bailiff the money otherwise.

Will keep you posted on the outcome of the ombudsman

[bresh67]

I've had the unfortunate pleasure of dealing with Rossendales who are collecting on behalf of Warrington Council for a £475 bill. This is now at £770 with bailiffs fees in spite of already paying £100 off the bill. When I spoke to the bailiff regarding the payment and an agreement to pay the arrears they stated because I couldn't give them proof in writing of the agreement then the full amount is outstanding. I asked them about the payment made and the arrogant B--ch said "well we ain't gonna say no are we."

[SoniaB]

I have today copied the letter and sent it to Newlyn Collection Services. They refused to take a payment from me and said I would need to pay the bailiffs in full which comes to about £1500. They wouldn't even make reasonable demands, they wanted £533 a month for this council tax debt. I informed them I could only pay them £160 but they are refusing this. I don't want the bailiffs to come in especially if my children answer the door. My kids are 3, 6 and 12 and I am pregnant again. What should I do once he comes.

[Guest lipupfatty]

inform the council and bailiff company that you are pregnant, the council should cease action

[The Watcher]

I have today copied the letter and sent it to Newlyn Collection Services. They refused to take a payment from me and said I would need to pay the bailiffs in full which comes to about £1500. They wouldn't even make reasonable demands, they wanted £533 a month for this council tax debt.

 

Can you make payments (direct to the Council) online?

 

It will help your case if they can see that you are attempting to pay.

[MikeSplicer]

I have read this thread with great interest a few years ago I missed a CT payment and was late with the next so the bill was passed right to the baliffs but by the time they had got round to making a call on me I had paid the CT bill direct to the council in full. At first he refused to believe me and I said believe who you want but I am not paying you again. So then he started on about that I shouldent have paid the council has it was not them I owed he was getting into a right state. After reading this thread I now know that he ws p155ed off cus he wouldent be making any money out of me.

[demon_x_slash]

Yep, he must have lost about £200-£300 because of your quick thinking - 'ghost visit' x 3, levy fee when no levy was conducted, van fee where there was no levy, the more and more popular and very vague 'removal fees' where there was no levy...you get the picture. Doesn't it give you a warm, cosy feeling inside?