Council Tax and Bailiffs ref only - NO POSTS ALLOWED

[hallowitch]

echowitch

 

I tired to do what you said and phoned Haringey council, in my case. I got thru to customer services and they would not put me thru to anyone in Council Tax dept. I wrote them a letter with the info you put on this site and my current situation.

Today I received a letter from the council that they are

"unable to make an arrangement with me, as the liability order has been passed to Newlyn bailiffs for collection.

Please note that once accounts have been passed to the bailiffs, the Council will not intervene in the enforcement process and you will have to negotiate with the bailiff company regarding payment."

 

What do I answer them now?

 

 

 

I just checked the name of the bailiff that came to my door (didn't let him in) today and he's not listed on the site, not as working for Newlyn nor on his own name.

cant find any posts about this could you please start a new thread and give us some info whats happened so far what you have done and your situation

 

text the bailiff and ask when and at what court he was certificated

[echowitch]

echowitch

 

I tired to do what you said and phoned Haringey council, in my case. I got thru to customer services and they would not put me thru to anyone in Council Tax dept. I wrote them a letter with the info you put on this site and my current situation.

Today I received a letter from the council that they are

"unable to make an arrangement with me, as the liability order has been passed to Newlyn bailiffs for collection.

Please note that once accounts have been passed to the bailiffs, the Council will not intervene in the enforcement process and you will have to negotiate with the bailiff company regarding payment."

 

What do I answer them now?

 

I just checked the name of the bailiff that came to my door (didn't let him in) today and he's not listed on the site, not as working for Newlyn nor on his own name.

 

Write to the head of the Finance department at Haringey Council and tell them that you wish to make a formal complaint about the following.

 

1. Customer Service staff refusing to put you through to the Council Tax Department to discuss your account.

 

2. The Council Tax department refusing to accept or discuss payments direct to the Council, which is in direct contravention of Government rules regarding Council Tax payments and collection, which require them to discuss and accept ALL offers of payment.

 

3. Inform them that the Bailiffs attending your home/contacting you is not a certified Bailiff and thus is breaking the law and that you refuse to deal with the Bailiffs as they are breaching UK law by utilising un-certified Bailiffs.

 

That should sort them out. You could also CC your local MP on it as well !!

[honeysuckle weeks]

Honeysuckle, if this is for Council Tax talk to the Council and make an offer of payment that you can afford to stick to.

 

Now this part is important......they MUST accept any offer you make so long as its reasonable. If you say you can only afford £1 a week and can prove thats all you can afford they are required by law to accept it. Problem is most Councils don't realise this so you may have to argue it with them. Im not saying offer £1 of course, offer what you can stretch to reasonably.

 

When you speak to the Council ask them to take back the debt. They may say "its been passed to the Bailiffs you have to talk to them". Rubbish. The Council can and MUST take it back if you make an offer of payment. Try to talk to the Court Officer at the Council Tax department and lodge a complaint against the Bailiff for their aggressive and worrying manner. This will prompt them to take the account back from the Bailiff's and stop them coming out.

 

Once thats done, contact the Bailiff's and tell them that the whole account has been taken back by the Council and if they attempt to attend your home you will refuse entry, and if necessary, contact the Police regards harrassment and trespassing. That should stop them coming out.

 

Then......make sure you pay the Council the amount you've agreed on the dates you've agreed.

 

 

hi echowitch

I went along to the council offices today, and spoke to the officer there, i asked him to take back this amount from the baliffs and offered to pay so much per week,he refused i offered £5 pw he said this is not enough and wont take it back, i told him i had legal advice and im offering to pay the council but he would not accept it. i said i had taken legal advice,and they should accept,but he fobbed me off, saying i might be able to get housing benefit etc.

[echowitch]

Ah yet another Council employee who doesn't know the law. He is required to accept it. If all you can afford is £5 per week then he has to accept it. However he may be right about claiming for Housing and Council Tax benefit, best thing is if you talk to the Job Centre about applying for it.

 

Im currently trying to find the exact piece of law (I think its in the laws that govern Local Government but Im checking on that) that states that Council's are required to accept any offer. We'll arm you with that for your next try. However if they still refuse then demand to speak to their boss or the head of the Finance Department at the council as you are making a reasonable offer of payment and they are refusing to accept it.

 

However it might be better if you wrote it all down in a letter.

[echowitch]

The collection and enforcement of Council Tax is carried out in line with the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992. A demand notice is issued to a taxpayer informing them of the amount of Council Tax they are required to pay and an instalment plan for payments to be made. If payments are not made in accordance with the instalment plan, at least one reminder notice and a summons will be issued before a liability order could be obtained in the Magistrates Court against a taxpayer. The Council, as a billing authority, is statutorily obliged to issue such notices.

 

Once a liability order is held the Council can then exercise various options in respect of further recovery action. A decision on which of the following options would be taken will be made on the basis of which option is deemed to be the most effective method of recovering the debt, in line with the Audit Commission’s recommendations.

 

 

 

 

These options are:-

 

· To agree a payment arrangement with the taxpayer

 

· To implement an Attachment of Earnings Order

 

 

· To pass the Council Tax account to a firm of bailiffs for collection

 

· To implement an Attachment of Benefits Order

 

· To apply for a charging order against the taxpayer’s property

 

· To initiate bankruptcy proceedings against the taxpayer

 

Note that they must attempt to recover it in the most effective method available, and this is regardless of the current state of play. Getting you to make an arrangement with them is the most effective all round. Them sending in Bailiffs who slap on extra charges is not the easiest method as it places you in a worse situation.

[echowitch]

Honeysuckle if you create your own thread and drop me a pm with the link, and post up all the details of what you can realistically afford, any mitigating circumstances (unemployment, illness, etc) including details of the Bailiffs I will write you up a letter to send to your council which you can fill in the blanks (account number and address)

 

If your local council has an online payment system (and they should all have one) start making the payments immediately to show good intent to pay.

[hallowitch]

excellent information keeping this for future reference thanks for posting this I'm sure it will be valuable information for loads of posters

[echowitch]

Im still looking for the exact sections in the Act and Regulations. Just so as people can shove it down daft Councils throats But its quite a bit of reading lol

[echowitch]

I think.......

 

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1992/ukpga_19920014_en_13#sch4

Local Government Finance Act 1992

Schedule 14 - Enforcement England and Wales

 

Paragraph 17

 

Termination of proceedings

 

17 (1) Regulations under paragraph 1(1) above may provide that in a case where—

(a) proceedings under the regulations have been taken as regards the recovery of any sum mentioned in paragraph 1(1) above; and

(b) the outstanding amount is paid or tendered to the authority to which it is payable;

the authority shall accept the amount, no further steps shall be taken as regards its recovery, and any person committed to prison in pursuance of the proceedings shall be released.

(2) The outstanding amount is an amount equal to the sum concerned or to so much of it as remains outstanding (as the case may be).

(3) In a case where costs and charges are relevant the outstanding amount shall be treated as augmented by a sum (of a prescribed amount or an amount determined in accordance with prescribed rules) in respect of costs and charges incurred in the proceedings up to the time of payment or tender.

Although Im currently trying to translate it from legalese to English, but it certainly looks promising !!

[insurance2009]

Hi just wondering if someone can help me.

 

I had council tax arrears and was contacted in June by letter by a bailiffs named Rundle & Co. They told me to contact them to set up a payment arrangement which I did (£166.00 every 31 days).

 

Unfortunately without advising me of it they set up the debt under two different references so they wrote to me and told me that the balance under the ref no I had been using was 0.00 and I though great thats it all done and dusted.

 

However I received a ltter on Monday this week saying attendance notce the clerance of goods.

 

I immediately phoned them and got put through to the bailiff who advised that i had to pay him £720.00 or he was coming to remove goods.

 

The amount did not sound right. I aske the council what the balance was and they said £548.00 but that the bailiffs would have added charges.

 

I have worked out from the arrangement made previoulsy that the balance due to Rundle should be £590.50.

 

I would like to point out that at no time has anyone been to my premises to make a levy or gained access to my premises. I know this because I live above where I work and someone is there all day!! I fail to see how I could have incurred these costs.

 

I have written a fax to rundle and company, and copied the council in and advised that I want an actual bill for the anount beacuse nowhere on any of the papers I have recieved in the post do they give me a balance with a breakdown of any costs which they are charging.

 

I have advised the council that I am willing to pay the amount I actually owe in full and have advised the bailiffs that until this is resolved I will expect no further action (also advised the council of this).

 

In addition I also advised the council that I could find no record that the bailiff named on my letter was certificated which is cause for concern.

 

The council have been extreemely unco-operative about it and have told me that I have to speak to the bailiffs and there is nothing they can do. I am sorry but after that first conversation with the bailiff I will not be speaking to him again and you cannot get through to anyone in the office, they are equally un-coperative.

 

I am actually scared to leave my falt/office in case the bailiff is lying in wait to accost me or force entry. He has actually scared me that much. When I asked him how he thought he would gain access to my premises he said ' when you knock most people will open the door'. My response was 'good luck with that!'.

 

He would'nt be able to gain access to my premises anyway because it is above an office and the door is the office door to which there is a buzzer system. ALthough I am scared to leave. My flat is on the seciond floor so I doubt he would use a ladder to gain access.

 

This whole mess is making me feel really ill. Although it is worth noting that he hasn't turned up yet and the only thing I have recieved is a letter.

[nanna noos]

echowitch

 

I tired to do what you said and phoned Haringey council, in my case. I got thru to customer services and they would not put me thru to anyone in Council Tax dept. I wrote them a letter with the info you put on this site and my current situation.

Today I received a letter from the council that they are

"unable to make an arrangement with me, as the liability order has been passed to Newlyn bailiffs for collection.

Please note that once accounts have been passed to the bailiffs, the Council will not intervene in the enforcement process and you will have to negotiate with the bailiff company regarding payment."

 

What do I answer them now?

 

I just checked the name of the bailiff that came to my door (didn't let him in) today and he's not listed on the site, not as working for Newlyn nor on his own name.

same response as i got. i think all council tax workers go to the same training school!!!

 

I have now written to my council and told them that i wished to confirm in writing that i had made an offer that i could afford and i wished to connfirm that they had refused this offer of payment. i also stated that i was giving them notice that

 

1. i would not be giving any baliff entry to my premises or goods

2. that as i was giving them notice of refusal of entry or negotiation wih the baliff company i would not be held liable for any of their costs and would not accpet any money sent to the council to pay my council tax bieeng used by the council to pay any baliff fees.

3. Until such time the debt was passed back to the council i would put money aside for payment as i am ot refusing to pay i am just not prepared to pay the baliff company but wished to pay my creditor direct.

4. also told them that in this current climate i would be asking myMP should not councils be expected to give the same support in debt management as mortgage and other credit companies by helping people to clear their debt not adding to it both finanacially or emotionally.

 

Happy to give attidue back!!

 

I will now not do any more letters or phone calls i am on a budget and trying to act responsibly and cut costs back not waste money !!!! I am now so determined to win this keep your chin up and stand up for yourself, as long as you accept the bill needs to be paid stick to your guns, make it clear you want to pay but only to the coucil direct confirm it in writing (recorded delivery) and do not let the baliffs in under any circumstances make sure your home is locked and secure if you go out, but do not let it rule your life dont hide behind closed curtains bide your time and you will win in the end.

 

[nanna noos]

Rule number one if they have definitley not been into your home they cannot force entry whether you are there or not

 

I think this one for Hallowitch to help you with as you will get excellent advice

 

i wold just like to say i felt like you and was scared ot of my wits, didnt want to go out in case they came while i was out, kept the curtains closed and basically lived in fear, well.. do not let them do this to you, do not give them the satisfaction, head up, live your life stick to your guns and follow Hallowitches advice when it comes, its a bit like dealing with bullies at school once you stand up to them they run off crying to mummy!!!

 

you have your rights and you can beat them just dont let them in.

 

wont wish you luck cos you dont need it decency and basic rights are on your side and thats all you need to fight the devil he he!!!

[Josie8]

same response as i got. i think all council tax workers go to the same training school!!!

 

I have now written to my council and told them that i wished to confirm in writing that i had made an offer that i could afford and i wished to connfirm that they had refused this offer of payment. i also stated that i was giving them notice that

 

1. i would not be giving any baliff entry to my premises or goods

2. that as i was giving them notice of refusal of entry or negotiation wih the baliff company i would not be held liable for any of their costs and would not accpet any money sent to the council to pay my council tax bieeng used by the council to pay any baliff fees.

3. Until such time the debt was passed back to the council i would put money aside for payment as i am ot refusing to pay i am just not prepared to pay the baliff company but wished to pay my creditor direct.

4. also told them that in this current climate i would be asking myMP should not councils be expected to give the same support in debt management as mortgage and other credit companies by helping people to clear their debt not adding to it both finanacially or emotionally.

 

Happy to give attidue back!!

 

I will now not do any more letters or phone calls i am on a budget and trying to act responsibly and cut costs back not waste money !!!! I am now so determined to win this keep your chin up and stand up for yourself, as long as you accept the bill needs to be paid stick to your guns, make it clear you want to pay but only to the coucil direct confirm it in writing (recorded delivery) and do not let the baliffs in under any circumstances make sure your home is locked and secure if you go out, but do not let it rule your life dont hide behind closed curtains bide your time and you will win in the end.

 

 

 

 

Make payments to the Council online

[echowitch]

For Honeysuckle, but would probably serve as a good basis for anyone to use.

 

Add a photocopy of the letter showing their made up figures, and also include the name of the guy claiming to be a Bailiff. (I've assumed he showed no identification or certification)

 

Start making payments now. If you are going to pay weekly rather than monthly, edit the letter accordingly.

 

My Witchy colleague can probably smooth out any holes in the below letter I've missed

 

Your Name

123 Fake Street

Springfield

AA1 1XX

 

19th August 2009

 

 

Court Officer

Haringey Council

Council Tax Department

Their full address

 

Dear Sir,

 

Account number: XXXXXXXXXXX

 

I am writing to formally offer a payment plan of £20 a month to repay the remaining Council Tax for account XXXXXXXXX. I would like to offer more but I can not do so at present. I am willing to provide a detailed Income and Expenditure breakdown if required to prove that this is all that I can pay. I am also looking at claiming for Housing and Council Tax benefits as per your advice when I came to the Council offices, to assist me in paying this, but this will take time to apply for and be processed.

 

I have been advised that it is a requirement of yours to accept any reasonable offer of payment for Council Tax under the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 (Amended), and the Local Government Finance Act 1992. And that if you refuse my reasonable offer of payment I will escalate my complaint to the Head of Finance for the Council, and my local MP.

 

Please note that I am aware that you passed my Council Tax bill to Newlyn Bailiffs but I am exercising my legal right to pay the outstanding Council Tax directly to Haringey Council. I also wish to make a formal complaint about Newlyns Bailiffs practices.

 

The person that came to my home claiming to be a Bailiff did not show me any identification or certification proving that they are a Bailiff. As I’m sure you are aware it is a criminal offence to operate as a Bailiff without a licence or certification. Their Bailiffs were also highly intimidating and aggressive and left me concerned for my own physical safety as a woman alone and unable to defend myself. This has left me very shaken and has affected my health for which I am seeking medical advice on. In addition the fees charged do not comply with Regulation 45 (2) (Section 5) Charges Connected With distress) of the above regulations.

 

I await your response. However in the mean time I will continue to make regular payments to you via the Council’s online payment system.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

Your Name

Edited August 20, 2009 by echowitch
Added Hallowitchs suggestions.

[hallowitch]

Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992(Amended)

 

 

In addition the figures that they are claiming for do not tally with the amounts that they are legally allowed to charge for

In addition the fees charged do not comply with Regulation 45 (2)

(Section 5) Charges Connected With distress) of the above regulations

;);) hope you dont mind

[echowitch]

Told you she's pick up on the stuff I miss, cheers Hallowitch

[nicp26]

Hi, I received notification from the council informing me that I will be visited in the next few days from the Bailiffs. I'm not worried too much over them visiting. I'm worried more because I have 4 staffordshire Bull Terrier dogs who are free to run around my home and secured garden. If the baillif decides he would like to let himself in either through an open window or door and my dogs see him as an intruder , is there any law that protects my dogs and/or myself from prosecution? I know its probably a unlikely scenario and although my dogs are not trained to attack, there is a possibility they may feel the need to protect. I can not be a 100 % certain what their reaction would be if they saw a stranger comming into my home without me. The bailiff would be a little stupid to take the risk in the first place.

[symphony63]

Thank you for your advice echowitch. I did what you told me. I also fired off a letter to Haringey similar to the 1 you wrote and emailed it to them. I got an out of office reply and it had the council tax dept phone number on it, so I was a bit wiser, at least I had a number (not from customer services). I phoned 2 days later and got a nice guy on the phone. It was a completely different attitude.

I had made a payment online keeping to the offer in the letter and that made a difference too. It shows that you are serious with your offer.

I am now awaiting the outcome and will keep you posted.

Thanks again

[honeysuckle weeks]

For Honeysuckle, but would probably serve as a good basis for anyone to use.

 

Add a photocopy of the letter showing their made up figures, and also include the name of the guy claiming to be a Bailiff. (I've assumed he showed no identification or certification)

 

Start making payments now. If you are going to pay weekly rather than monthly, edit the letter accordingly.

 

My Witchy colleague can probably smooth out any holes in the below letter I've missed

 

many thanks echo and hallow

i will let you know the outcome...

[Mr Nottm786]

Can anyone help?

hi i have a unpaid council tax which has been passed on to Jacobs Bailiff

> my

> original debt was £950.00 because off there charges due to me not letting

> them in now my debt is £1210.00 they have visited several times.i was

> wondering are there charges valid? I have wrote to them explaining my

> position and offered £40.00pw which i have paid few lump sums now my

> balance

> with them is £900.00. But they still insisting to send bailiff around my

> house to levy and further charges but i clearly stated im refusing to let

> him in under any circumstances.they saying if refuse they need a payment

> in

> full which im not in position to do so.

>

> please help.

>

[echowitch]

If you make an offer of payment i.e. a payment plan they are obliged to accept it. However you should make the offer of payment to your local Council who you actually owe the money to. The Bailiff's are only allowed to charge for a 1st and 2nd visit. (£24 and £18 respectively) So them adding £260 worth of charges on top is utter rubbish. You can either complain to the Council about the charges or challenge the Bailiffs to lay out what the charges are.

 

Use a modified (to your particular case) version of the letter in post number 844

[Birmans220960]

Excellent letter. Also worth putting in the letter that under Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act it is an offence to harrass debtors. You can only be put in prison for wilful refusal (i.e. could pay if you wanted to but just don't feel like it).

 

Council's are also very fond of telling you that you have lost your right to pay by instalments if you miss one or two. This is not so. Under the law of England & Wales nobody ever loses their right to pay by instalments.

Even if the Council take you to court, you will only be ordered to pay by instalments as long as you are not "wilfully refusing" and your non-payment is simply due to financial hardship.

 

Obviously if you enter into an arrangement it is not ideal to fall into arrears with it but in these hard times it sometimes cannot be helped.

[scmin]

Ok, I have an unpaid council tax bill from last year, referred to chandlers bailiffs, they attended and took walking possession of some goods. I have been unable to pay the repayments, and the bailiff is attending in an hour according to his letter.

 

Problem, the goods listed are owned by my landlord, having been told by the original bailiff that if I could prove they weren't mine he couldn't take them.

 

I signed the walking possession form and on closer inspection it says I confirm they are mine. I'm not letting him in this time. But what can I do? Can he take the goods?

[hallowitch]

you must get a statuary declaration done immediately to stop the bailiff removing the landlords property

STATUTORY DECLARATION

 

 

 

To: (the bailiffs) (their address)

 

 

 

 

 

 

I (your name)

of (your address)

Do solemnly and sincerely declare that:

the items listed (list them) are not the property of (your friends name) and (reason why they were there) and have always been my sole property

And I make this solemn declaration conscientiously believing the same to be true and by virtue of the provisions of the Statutory Declarations Act 1835 and Section 5 of The Perjury Act 1911.

 

Signature:

 

Declared at

 

On the day of two thousand and

 

Before me

 

A Commissioner for Oaths, or Notary Public/Justice of the Peace/Solicitor having the powers conferred on a Commissioner for OathsBefore me

__________________

[scmin]

ok, the landlord isn't contactable, the items are listed in the inventory though. He's not visited yet, what happens if I refuse to let him in, he tries to force entry and I call the police and report a breach of the peace?