Council Tax and Bailiffs ref only - NO POSTS ALLOWED

[Guest Happy Contrails]

The bailiff cannot enforce a null-debt - a debt having a value of zero or less.

 

You need to file a form complaint on two grounds.

 

1. Cheating you with his fees

2. Trying to enforce a debt that has already been settled with the authority.

 

The law prescribing bailiffs fees for collecting unpaid council tax is the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 and provides £24.00 for a first visit and £18.00 for a second visit if one is made. No other bailiff's fees can lawfully be charged if a bailiff has not moved your goods in a vehicle and you have not signed any document consenting to a levy or a walking possessions agreement (currently a flat rate of £10).

 

Phone the council, tell them their bailiff has been caught cheating with his fees and commits an offence under Section 2 and 4 of the Fraud Act 2006 and ask they stop enforcement. Remind the council they are liable for their bailiffs when they are caught defrauding a member of the public. If the council is uncooperative or vexatious then quickly contact the local government ombudsman.

 

Phone the bailiff on his mobile and tell him you are filing a Form 4 complaint against him for defrauding you with his fees. Ask him for the name of the court that issued his bailiffs certificate and quickly end the call. If the bailiff refuses to disclose it then phone the Ministry of Justice Public Register of Bailiffs on 020 3334 6355 and ask which court issued his certificate. Download the complaint form to make an official complaint against the bailiff http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/form4_0606.pdf and send the form to the certificating court enclosing supporting evidence such as the bailiffs document showing the bailiffs fees he is trying to charge and any amounts paid.

[Guest janensteve]

i am advised that bailiff can charge van fee after a levy has taken place.

 

is the definition of after means returning back on another occasion or 30 seconds after making the levy on the same visit?

[hallowitch]

they cant charge a van fee on the same day as they done the levy

[Guest janensteve]

please can you be specific on the authority that says they cant charge a van fee on the same day as they done the levy

[Guest Happy Contrails]

janensteve - I have assume for now this is unpaid council tax.

 

The law prescribing bailiffs fees for collecting unpaid council tax is the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 and provides £24.00 for a first visit and £18.00 for a second visit if one is made. No other bailiff's fees can lawfully be charged if a bailiff has not moved your goods in a vehicle and you have not signed any document consenting to a levy or a walking possessions agreement (currently a flat rate of £10).

 

The law provides "reasonable costs" for attending an address with a view to transporting goods in a van, if no goods are transported in the van then the van fee is £0.00 In the case of Culligan -v- Marston Group Ltd et-al, no. 8CL51015 the court ruled that because the Bailiff produced no breakdown of his charges, he is unable to show that it is reasonable costs. Therefore, van fees, tow truck fees and attending to remove fees = £0.00. More

[casbah]

Hey everyone

update time; I lodged a form 4 complaint against the baillifs used by my LA and sat back waiting for the cheque for phantom charges. Yea!!! right!!! The court wrote back to me for clarification as to what I was going to do. (I have a knack of using 20 words when 5 will do) and the court has said that if I intend to pursue a complaint against the bailiff, then the court "will simply adjuicate upon the matter on paper in the first instance having regard to both parties representation ( Rule 8, Distress for Rent Rules 1998)"

Now I don't particularly care if he loses his license or not, I just want him bought into line. He has never levied against my property and has charged me 5 times for this. He has never met me so cannot say he has left a Memorandum 7 securing my property against debts. So how do I word the letter to the court???? without using 12 when 4 will do?

CAsbah

xx

Edited July 2, 2009 by casbah
trying to highlight what the court said

[MARTIN3030]

I think that there are too many posting here instead of creating your own threads.I will move the templated info into its own thread so its more easily viewable.

[sarahtxx]

today i got a removal notice from a bailiff for a liability order for council tax, but i paid the debt direct to the council about 2 months ago. i have called the bailiff and he asked me to call back tomorrow so he can look at it. so i called the council and they said they will send me my account showing i owe nothing but he might be chasing me for fees.. over £200...

can he add his fees to my liability order and send a removal notice as i didnt think he could... i refused to deal with him before and dealt direct with the council and the libility order is paid in full

thanks sarah

[echowitch]

today i got a removal notice from a bailiff for a liability order for council tax, but i paid the debt direct to the council about 2 months ago. i have called the bailiff and he asked me to call back tomorrow so he can look at it. so i called the council and they said they will send me my account showing i owe nothing but he might be chasing me for fees.. over £200...

can he add his fees to my liability order and send a removal notice as i didnt think he could... i refused to deal with him before and dealt direct with the council and the libility order is paid in full

thanks sarah

 

If he ever attended the site he can charge about £35 for the first visit, and about £25 for the second visit (sorry I can never remember the amounts.) Other than that he can't charge you anything more. If he attended once and you refused to deal with him and went straight to the Council then he can only charge you for the first visit.

 

Ask him to provide you with details for his charges, and also ask him to send a copy to the Council so that they have a record. (That should shut him up pretty quickly)

 

[kazma]

Hi

Can somebody help me with this problem. I have been charged the below figures by the bailiffs but I know about the first visit in Nov 2008 but nothing about the other visits. I have queried the costs and have been told that a letter was left after the second visit and the van enforcement visit. I've never seen sight if this letter and neither has my husband.

The visits that have been made are 27/11/08. Costs incurred £24.50

2nd Visit 21/05/09. Costs incurred £18.00

Van enforcement visit 26/05/09. Costs incurred £76.00

Nothing as ever been signed by use, we haven't even seen sight of anybody. I've been told that a van visit is standard after two unanswered visits but if they have no walking possession order surely that's not correct.

K

[hallowitch]

you are correct if there is no walking possession agreement (levy) then there can be no van fees

[Belladonna602]

Hi,

I am sorry if I cover old ground here but have only just found this amazing site.

I was pestered by Equita about 12 months ago by them coming to my old house and insisting I either pay or they take. I was terrified as was my small daughter. Anyway, to make them go away I agreed an amount to pay. and have done so since , each month.

However, it woudl now seem that my previous local council have handed them the remains of my previous homes council tax, and they have now sent me 7 letters in one go threatening to to visit me and remove goods. (the should be so lucky, I don't have much). They say they have tried contacting me, but I ahve not heard from them till these letters. Also I phoned and paid the above said bill only this week, and asked when next payment was due, and nothing was said about these.

I am not refusing to pay, but just can't afford much at moment.

How do I keep these from taking my stuff and making mjy life hell???

[GBJudge]

You may get threats of imprisonment for refusing to make payment,

 

Hi can i just say with this in mind? That only a judge can make a threat of imprisonment for non payment, (But) They can only send you to prison if they have exhausted all reasonable ways possible of getting you to pay and the final way is a suspended sentence.

 

I had one for two years due to the fact that it is deemed by the courts and human rights that you should not have a court order detailing you to pay and moneys past the two year mark as this would result in depression hence a two year court order.

 

Mind you i did pay it and even over paid by 6 weeks as i forgot when it was meant to stop.

 

They still demanded even more form more back dated council tax to witch i can not prove or denie every existed so it would seem im still have more to pay.

 

The other thing is from when you have a court order telling you to pay xyz you can not have a standing order to pay it! You must make payments direct to the council.

 

As for bailiffs i love them (they hate me) i have a habbit of keeping them in the rain untill they understand there not coming in.

[gridlok]

Greetings,

 

I have read most of the first pages of this post with interest and it has distilled me with a little hope, and I am wondering if anyone has experienced a situation such as this;

 

In 2005 we owed roughly £2500 in CT. Foolishly, we let a bailiff onto our premises and he took a possession order. We came to an agreement and have been paying £100 since.

 

We had one payment from our agreement remaining, but due to various circumstances we are in arrears again with CT (£800). The council have passed this onto the bailiffs and have 'tacked on' this amount to the agreement and are now claiming that we broke it.

 

We have attempted to negotiate with the bailiffs (they have claimed to have visited the premises multiple times, of course incurring charges. In once case they literally left an unsealed letter on our doorstep), but they are refusing to come to an arrangement and are demanding the debt in full.

 

Though this is barely possible for us to pay it will put is in a great deal of financial hardship. Rent, food, electric etc will be impossible to keep up with.

 

From what I have gathered from previous posts, there is always an opportunity to make an arrangement. Should I contact the council directly since the bailiff will have none of it?

 

Also, are they legally allowed to 'tack on' a new debt to a previous agreement?

 

Thanks in advance

[hallowitch]

the bailiff cannot add the £800 debt that has been passed to them to the 2005 liability order they are 2 separate liability orders therefore they have nothing to do with each other

 

please start your own thread you will get a lot more help that way

welcome to C A G

[gridlok]

Thank you Hallowitch

[Belladonna602]

Geordie Aaron,

 

A total newcomer here but over the last few months I have been finding ourt a helluva lot about council tax and bailiffs actions - particularly Equita, but more of that later.

 

I strongly advise your friend to look at making a claim for an SMI, (severe mental impairment) exemption. A lot of people think to qualify for this they have to suffer long term mental impairment - not so! A letter from her GP will be required but I dont see that as a difficulty.

 

As an extra bonus to being totally exempt from council tax it is also unlawful for a bailiff to go after someone with an SMI exemption.

 

One more point, The exemption runs from when the GP states the ilness commenced, (is the baby's birth) so it will be backdated and she will get a full refund from that time.

 

Andy

 

Thats very interesting.......................

 

I would like to know more about your experiences with Equita as I am now having problems with them..............

[GBJudge]

I would love to no more on this as i suffered post traumatic stress syndrome several years ago and again was treated for sever depression Five years ago.

 

How can you go back to a past date and what circumstances are considered as the PTSS lasted for a very long time and during and after that they have recovered over 2k from me.

 

If you dont ask you never no!

 

GBJudge

[ultratek2003]

Hi all I am new here,

We had a visit from Rossendale’s bailiffs about 5 months ago; unfortunately we had not found this website earlier,

Although I did refuse entry to them, we owed about £600 for council tax about 2 years ago, it was a little bit of a shock that they had just turned up as we had got a letter from the courts 2 weeks previously stating that an order for detachment of earnings had been granted to the council and that my employer would be contacted to arrange this.

I had taken the letter into work the day after we got it to make them aware.

I explained this to the bailiff who just said well they won’t bother with that it is to much paperwork, and they have passed it over to us and you will pay us.

He then demanded that I let him in, again I refused so he stormed off saying have it your way then,

I then saw him leaning over our fence at the rear of our house.

He then he posted a letter documenting that he had made a walking possession claim on a motorbike parked in my garden ( this was my fathers) I went straight out to him and said it did not belong to me, he just said it was tough.

I contacted Rossendale’s to arrange a payment, they told me they where not interested and to send in the means testing form with an offer of payment.

We completed the form and offered a payment of £50 per month.

We paid the first month then it was getting close to the 2nd payment, so I rang them again and said I had not got confirmation from them,

The lady on the phone was very snotty to me; I explained they offer and was told that I had not sent the forms back.

She then said we will not accept your offer unless it is in writing, she said that she would send the paperwork out again.

2 days later we had a letter from Rossendale’s stating they had accepted our offer of £50 PER WEEK,

I thought it was a typing error and by this time my wife and I had decided to just try and pay off as much as possible as quick as possible, so just paid at least £50 per week, one week we could not afford it on the Friday and paid £100 on the Monday,

Then 2 months ago my son passed away and I forgot to make the payment on the Friday so paid double the following week, we got a letter from them again, and I made the mistake of ignoring it, we just kept making payments every Friday until the

3rd of July, we missed a payment again as my wife was in hospital giving birth after being rushed in poorly at the beginning of the week,

So we forgot to make the payment…..

We knew we only owed £149 so where going to pay £100 yesterday then the remaining £49 on Friday then it would be them off our backs.

Well that’s where we went wrong.

I got back from shopping at 9;30 am yesterday morning started putting it all away and my wife was sat with our 6 day old daughter feeding her,

My wife came bursting into the kitchen crying saying there are 2 huge bailiffs at the door demanding money from Rossendale’s

I went to the door and the 2 bloke said we are her from Rossendale’s to collect the debt of £323.53p for your council tax.

I said hold on a min we have missed a payment and we only owe £149. I asked him if he minded waiting whilst I rang Rossendale’s to find out what was going on.

He was nice enough and said no worries mate but your wasting your time. They will just tell you to deal with the bailiffs.

I took me 25 min’s to get through to them I said that we where going to pay £100 to them today and the £49 on Friday, but I could make a payment now of £141 which was all I had in my account, for the representative to say well you will have to sort it with them wont you.

So at this point my wife was getting very very distressed and just wanted them to go,

I went out to speak to the bailiffs again and explained I only had £141 in the bank and enough change to make it up to the full amount of £149 which I could get now. but I have not got the rest for the unrealistic charges they where demanding.

We where told in no uncertain terms that it was full payment today now of we will seize your goods, I had had enough and invited them in and said I will get the money out the bank give them the £149 and even though I don’t think the charges are very fair I get paid on Friday and could pay the remainder of there full fees then,

We where then told that that was not going to happen they will take full payment or to the value today, so I said ok sod it take what you want and just go, we really don’t need this.

The main bailiff just looked me straight in the eyes and said “we don’t want to take your ****, it will if I am honest only end up costing you more much more. More like £700 £800 at least” I just replied list I don’t have any family around here we don’t have credit cards so just take what you want and leave now.

He then changed tactics and said “listen my mate I am going to do you a favour I have a few more calls to do around here then I will come back, that way it gives you chance to get my money together, I am not going to come back and take your stuff coz that mean someone else coming you will be charged for this charged for that, you just see what you can sort out and call me” he gave me his number and left with his mate in tow.

Very luckily for me I have a very understanding boss, who after a very frantic call from me agreed to lend me the remaining £170 on the proviso that I paid it back in full directly out of my wages on Friday.

I called the bailiffs and they returned within moments of me ringing them,

When they got back the main bailiff stayed in the van and sent the second guy in to do the deal.

He came in very nervously and I jokingly said your first day mate, he grinned and said “yes I am normally a plasterer, but things are so tight I though I would give this ago. But there is no way I am doing this again, he is so ignorant, I cant believe how much he makes ripping people off, I don’t know how he can do this every day”

I was shocked and then just said “well you got to do something haven’t you, you have to put food on the table”, he said that it made him feel sick as he had kids of his own at home.

I counted out the money on the side and said I hope you got change as I have only got £325 in notes and then the 53p, I also asked for a full breakdown of there charges.

He took the £5 note leaving the rest in an envelope and said “I will see if he has any change in the van”

He returned and asked where the nearest shop was, so I told him that it was about 50 meters either way there where shops both ways, he came back less that 2 mins and said “my mate has said we will pop your change and a breakdown a bit later if that’s ok, you cant trust us to bring back your change” I jokingly replied so long as you don’t leave town.

So off he went leaving me with a receipt for my payment in full, and said they will drop the stuff in later.

At 1800 hrs last night I text the bailiff with delivery report on to make sure he got it asking where my change was, I got a delivery report in seconds but no reply,

I text again tonight at 1800 with delivery report on asking where my change was, I got a delivery report again in seconds but no reply.

 

I then text the following at 2012

“please provide me with my owed change which you have failed to return as promised also at the same time a detailed written breakdown of your fees & charges you demanded, please post these through our letter box to prevent further distress to my wife who gave birth just over a week ago.

please be aware that I taken legal advice and am starting action to recover the aforementioned fees and charges as I now understand that you have contradicted Regulation 45(2) of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 as well as the decision handed down in a Detailed Assessment hearing by Judge Plaskow.

I am allowing you 3 working days to comply with the request set down in this text, which is forwarded to my legal representative and to the editor of the Lincolnshire echo,”

 

with delivery report on asking I got a delivery report again in seconds.

And within 10 minuets he was ringing me I bounce his call

And sent a text with the following “response via text only is welcomed. Thank you.

 

My wife is now very worried that he will turn up at the house again whilst I am out,

 

Sorry may just seem like me rambling on, but how the hell can they get away with this, I even have a letter from Rossendale’s that states that IF they send a bailiff out they will charge £110 to attend site…

Any advice welcomed

Marcus

[hallowitch]

i have posted on the other thread you posted on

please start your own thread this situation is shocking and this bailiff should have back off when you lost your son you have enough to deal with without bailiffs hassling you

 

this is what i posted on other thread

 

Then 2 months ago my son passed away

 

i am so sorry to hear this

 

get in touch with your council tomorrow tell them that you missed a few payment to the bailiff and the bailiff has added charges for these missed payments

tell the council the reason for the missed payments was because you were trying to deal with the death of your son

 

tell them you now believe that under these circumstance the bailiff should have returned the debt or at the very least back off for a few months according to the bailiffs own guidelines The National s]Standards of Enforcement Agents as you are classed as a Vulnerable person

and then complain in the strongest terms about the way this bailiff has treated you tell the council you will be writing an official compliant to them

 

 

National Standards for Enforcement Agents

 

May 2002

 

Vulnerable situations

 

 

 

Those who might be potentially vulnerable include:

• the elderly;
  
• people with a disability;
  
• the seriously ill;
  
• the recently bereaved;
  
• single parent families;
  
• pregnant women;
  
• unemployed people; and,
  
• those who have obvious difficulty in understanding, speaking or reading English
  

[SJAMK]

Good Afternoon

 

I was visited by a Bailiff a few hours ago regarding and outstanding Council Tax bill on a rental property i wowned some years ago. I do not owe the money and was a the Council offices on Thursday and was told the matter was on hold. As it is Saturday the Bailiff could not contqact the council to confirm this and insisted I pay the money or he would levy goods. I told him He could speak to the Council on Monday and confirm what I had said and that I would notbe letting him in.

 

He posted a letter through my door 15 minutes later to say that he levied goods in my hall which he could view through my letter box and had made an additional charge for doing so. He has said he will be returning to collect the charges with a van on Monday. He has said that will cost an extra £240

 

I am not concerned about this at all but my wife is very worried, I cannot speak to my solicitor until money, so can somehere reassure my wife that he does not have the powers he claims.

 

Many thanks

[hallowitch]

SJAMK please start your own thread

and please tell me you have this in writing

 

He posted a letter through my door 15 minutes later to say that he levied goods in my hall which he could view through my letter box and had made an additional charge for doing so. He has said he will be returning to collect the charges with a van on Monday. He has said that will cost an extra £240

 

tell your wife not to worry machine gun talk from a water pistol

[emmalou77]

Update from me:

 

Background:

 

Received huge bill from old borough I used to live in dating back 10 years owing about £2.5k also including the liability for an address that wasn't anything to do with me and a liability for an amount whilst I was living in a different county at university.

 

DCA threatened to send in the heavies, wouldn't budge, demanded £700 a month.

 

So:

 

Wrote to DCA telling them to back off (letter below) - didn't hear anything back

Wrote to the council tax office in my old borough, copied to my local MP in the old and current borough (because the DCA were local)

Called and called the old local council tax office to speak to the manager (by name) who didn't call back and followed up the calls with letters documenting all of my calls and letters

Copied everything to my local MP and the old local MP

Eventually the manager of the council tax office got in touch apologising for his lack of response and took the account back inhouse

Bill was investigated by Council Tax manager

Now received a new bill which is significantly less than the original (now £500 and have an option to pay by affordable instalments

 

So stick with it, find out who is the manager of council tax and don't bother with the call centre bunnies and write and call and write and call and copy your local MP about the fairness of the claim and the aggressiveness of the DCA

 

There is a letter on here for DCAs telling them you know your rights, send that and don't make any other phone calls to them, only correspond by letter and only with the template on here, just keep repeating yourself if you have to.

 

_____________________________________________________________

 

Xxxx

Xxxxxxx

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Re: Case ID xxx

 

I understand xxx Borough Council has appointed you to recover my Council Tax Liability arrears between 1999 and 2003 amounting to a total of £xxx inclusive off fees.

 

Firstly I would like to make you aware that I am fully aware of my rights and you will not gain entry to my home under any circumstances to levy goods and I know the fees allowed under statute and when these fees can be applied.

 

I have requested that xxx Borough Council take back this debt pending investigation into the amount owed and that I am not in fact liable for one of the addresses at all.

 

I have said to xxx Borough Council that I am not at any point refusing to pay the part of the debt which is truly outstanding and will advocate a payment schedule to cover the principle once a final amount has been agreed. This will be a realistic offer that is affordable to me and will allow me to pay future bills issued for Council Tax without them falling into arrears and to cause hardship and will be payable directly to xxx Council by standing order on a monthly basis.

 

Please also send an itemised statement of account that clearly shows what charges have been added and what for, you are required in statute to supply this information and I look forward to this within 14 days.

 

I am sending the council and my local councillor a copy of this letter and requesting that it be filed with my account for further reference.

 

I hope the above meets your approval and I look forward to your timely reply by letter.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

xxx

 

Cc

Manager xxx Borough Council

Local councillor xxx Borough Council

 

 

Good luck

 

MR2008:)

Hi maisierider2008 ,

I am in excatly the same boat as you and out of the blue received council letters dating back over 10 years (with partner at the times name spelt completely wrong) saying they had a 2001 liability order they were following up on. I didnt get the liability order as was not living in that property for almost 2 years when served. The next day received letter from Equita baliff confirming debt.

 

What did you do and what can i do? I am panicking about baliffs coming and happy to pay council what is owed but want to be able to understand in a breakdown what this is and the dates it relates to. I was a full time student up until late 99 and partner named on the letter was one until 2002 so not sure we owe anything???

 

Please help!!!

 

Thanks

[hallowitch]

emmalou77 could you please start your own thread

Bailiffs and Sheriff Officers click on this link it will take you to a new page near bottom of page on left new thread

welcome and good luck

[desprateforhelp]

hello,

this a first for me on the internet but rossendales have made me feel i havent enough time to go for advise and have said if i do it will only make things worse for me in the long run , i owe nearly £1000 for council tax and they have threatend to take my goods in a matter of days , i am a single mum and am scared they will do this as they say they can , now i feel like a prisoner in my own home, that they are waiting around a corner to enter my premises as soon as i put my key in the door, please help not sure to whom i should be speaking to , will go down to the council tomorrow and make a payment and set up a standing order for my recent bill if applicable , ive just got to a point i dont know where to turn , thanks desprateforhelp