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Paragon / Arrow Global


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  • 1 month later...

Just an update, no documentation received just an odd call when I have been out, will look at following up threat to report them. Maybe if they persist.

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  • 1 month later...

I am concerned about Arrow Financial's tactics.

 

I have a Debt Management Plan with the CCCS (Consumer Credit Counselling Service) which seems to have settled down. It includes a Virgin credit card issued by MBNA, but have now had a letter of demand (quoting an incorrect card number) and in checking their web site find an entire page devoted to the CCCS essentially denigrating them and urging creditors to dump them in favour of Arrow.

 

This may not be the correct thread - if so apologies to the moderators - but apart from the obvious lack of ethics involved I am curious why they should make a specific attempt to trash the CCCS?

 

Any comments/experiences would be welcome.

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Hi Vandermerwe

 

If you have a plan which works for you with CCCS, which from memory is free, I suggest you contact them as they work for the regulatory body and advise of the Arrow communication, ask them to look into it, it may be they are quoting a previous card number as they change each time a fresh card is issued. Anyway as stated before in this thread Arrow are just junk debt buyers, obviously at a very low rate... CCCS should sort it for you. Perhaps advise Arrow you have an agreement with CCCS and have forwarded their communication to them, Arrow do like to write & ring a lot, this should sort out the legitimacy of their claim and resolve the repayment, of course it may be they are trying to collect a supposed debt which may already be part of your current agreement.

hope helps

Steve

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Another update on my case, Arrow still chasing disregarding the fact I wrote to them expressing a dispute and they said "not interested" when they rang & will still chase for payment, have reported to Information commisioner, trading standards and OFT, have now checked my credit status and note a :mad: default :mad: on my record from February, will advise on updates when received. Received acknowledgement from Trading standards & OFT, nothing from The Information Commisioner.

steve

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Steve, from what I have read on here, Arrow or CBS Transcom bought load of Paragon debt late last year and are now chasing every penny they can get, I have reported them to Trading standards, Information commision & OFT,. in discussion with TS at present having supplied copies of all the docs I have, Arrow or CBS have failed to supply copies of aggt etc and just seem to do what they want, I have been away so not sure on current situation but will check next few days and let you know what current state of affairs is. Wish I could send someone a bill without proving they owe it and expect them to pay up.....

steve

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've also got bother with Arrow. They actually market themselves to companies with 'customers' on DMPs with the CCCS! If you are a home owner with equity they will threaten bankruptcy - or at least that's what they've doen with me. They will not negotiate any less than 100% full and final settlement. Their minimum monthly payment offer was more than my total DMP payment set up with the CCCS - plus they wanted it secured on the house! :mad:

 

The CCCs have been pretty usless. MONTHS ago, before the debt was sold to Arrow, the original lender (MBNA) asked for £13 a month more than the CCCS pro rata DMP allowed. However, they just send out the same old SOA / pro rata DMP offer knowing full well that MBNA just wont have it. If you are a home owner this a dangerous move. Now, because of the CCCS's inflexibility, my home is at risk. They should wake up to the reality and accept that home owners have different needs. Had the DMP been shuffled slightly in MBNA's favour all would have been well.

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Seems like Arrow just like the bully boy tactics, its a shame CCCS haven't helped, thats their job, just shows even the credit organisations own can't control these people, being a home owner does make things more difficult for you as they have more leverage to threaten you, looks like you need to consider your options very carefully, take another loan to pay them off, not best option and possibly not possible if you have cccs aggt, you would only end up with a higher interest rate loan if you could get one, have you actually tried to speak to them about the situation (I know very hard to get anyone with intelligence there, I think I read somewhere they are owned by an American company and we all know they know best....) and explained. Does look difficult for you, try every channel you can, have you had copy aggts etc. Best of luck.

Steve

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I have managed to speak to them and also Marlin who do most of their dirty work. They know they've got me good and proper and wont budge. :( The CCCS actually do very little once a DMP has ben drawn up to thier satisfaction. They confess that companies frequently take thier customers to court and said not to worry - until I pointed out Ihave equity in my home. Oh dear, you've got your own home they said :rolleyes: The problem is they treat each case the same regardless of the creditors involved and regarless if you rent or own. Surely they must be aware that the American companies work to different rules and require the debt to be cleared in less years. They act diferently for the banks (overdrafts) so why not for them? I have no idea what to do now - the CCCS can and are doing nothing.

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I have heard back from TS, they will forward to relevant area to deal, they did say that once the documents were supplied the full payment would then be due immediately, doesn't seem right that they are not really interested in the fact of not supplying within timescales laid out by law.. Information Commissioners Office no response, will email them again, letter from OFT contains::

_____________________________________________________________________________________

 

The general effects of section 77-79 requires the creditor/owner (in the case of hire agreement) under an agreement for (fixed-sum credit, running account credit and hire agreement) to provide the debtor/hirer with a copy of the executed agreement and a statement of account on request, I have highlighted the word request because the debtor/hirer must make a valid request. For the request to be valid it must be in writing and must be accompanied by a fee of £1.

 

If a creditor/owner fails to comply with a valid request within a period of 12 days (not including the date of receipt of the request) he may not enforce the agreement at all. This prevents enforcement with or without a court order.

 

If a default lasts for a month (for example a calendar month) it constitutes an offence. We understand your concerns in this matter but please do remember however that once the creidtor/owner complies with the request albeit out of time, he may once again enforce the agreement.

 

A 'True copy' of an agreement principally consists of the terms and conditions of the agreement and the statutory content of the agreement. The name, address and signature of the debtor does not have to be provided. Additionally, the creditor must supply the total sum paid under the agreement by the debtor; the total sum which has become payable under the agreement but remains unpaid; and the total sum which is to become payable under the agreement by the debtor (the last two must include the various amounts comprised in that total sum and the date when each is/was due). However, the copy must be a copy. It need not be exact on immaterial points, but it cannot be conjectored reconstruction. If the trader has no original copy, the trader will have difficulty showing that he has complied with the regulation by supplying a 'true copy', since nobody would know what was in the original. When the trader comes to enforce the bedt in court, he needs to have a signed copy of the agreement in order to enforce. As the law stands currently he cannot otherwise.

 

We note your concerns that in absence of a copy of the original agreement someone's liability for a debt can only lead to further query. However in circumstances like this we would view it is as unfair practise under section 25(2)(d) of the act and relevant to licence fitness if a trader failed to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate when a debt is queried or disputed.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

 

Quite a lot there wasn't there... A couple of thinks seems to contradict each other, one says can't enforce as not supplied, the other bit says can.

 

Any clarification would be appreciated.

thanks

Steve

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They haven't, but then I haven't asked...

If I didn't own my own home, or there was no equity in it, I'd be going down that route myself, as there would be nothing to loose. However, as it stands I can't risk it. They say the petition papers are being drawn up now - they might be bluffing, but then again they might not.

As I can see it my only hope is to pay them off - I'm praying that relatives step in (I so hate having to ask them). Oddly, the CCCS say they would OK that - yet they wouldn't agree to £13 extra to MBNA a month :confused: Can't quite believe all this is happening after having them (the CCCS) reassure me for months that all would be well so long as I made regular payments through them.

Good luck with your case - I hope you can find a technicality or something that swings in your favour.

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  • 1 month later...

Looks like trading standards seem to be getting through to arrow, did credit check and they have removed the default......

 

will have to see what else happens,

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  • 10 months later...

I took out a loan for £5,000 in 1997 with Universal Credit which then became Parragon. During 1999 my four year old son became ill with Cancer I was off work for a year and made arrangements with creditors including an arrangement with Paragon, they said they would freeze the interest. I carrried on paying under the arrangement, received no statements exactly the same as Stevie. My son relapsed three times following chemotherapy and radio therapy. He has now been 4 years cancer free

 

Last year I decided to check how it was going and practically had to demand a statement from Paragon ( I hadn t heard from Paragon for years in writing just phone calls trying to up my payments ) which said I owed 15000

I was then contacted by CBS Transcom and I informed them of them I wasn t going to send them any payments or enter in to any open ended agreement with them as that was what had happened with Paragon. I have spoken to them on the phone and I offered them 2000 in full and final settlement which they laughed at. They said that Paragon had now agreed to freeze the interest, very good of them because they did that in 1999, and they would send me a letter to confirm this. They then phoned me chasing payment and I refused saying that they hadn t sent me the paperwork from the last conversation. They promised to chase this up with their admin dept. I still have received nothing from them after several months

 

Now today I get an alert from experian and find that Arrow Global have recorded a default for 16000 as a store card debt.

 

Has anyone got any advice on how to deal with this ?

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Mark. I had a similar situation where Paragon agreed to freeze interest, but then disputed this. I understood that the agreement should be almost settled but then finally got a statement from Paragon advising that the bill was 13k (more than I initially borrowed)

 

My advise?

 

Ask for a copy of the agreement. I'm currently holding out for Arrow Global to make the next move, but I have a couple of aces up my sleeve.

 

1. My original agreement with Universal said that 'Universal Credit will not disclose confidential information about you to any person outside Lloyds TSB Group, unless we have your consent or are required by law to make disclosure. We will only exchange information within Lloyds TSB Group to enable us to review your total relationship with us, for credit purposes, or for marketing purposes.'

That being the case, how do Transcom or Arrow have my details. Also? How are they able to justify releasing any information to a credit reference agency? The agreement that I signed categorically stated that they wouldn't or couldn't.

 

2. The copy agreement that Transcom sent me through was a totally different agreement and document to the one that I signed, with no signature and a different APR (albeit by 0.04%). Also? The Terms and Conditions differed and didn't include the 'DISCLOSURE - Data Protection Act 1984' term in my original document.

 

I hope that helps. Let us know how you get on.

 

Martyn

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Thank you Martyn I am awaiting contact from them although I will not deal with them by phone, they don t seem to like putting things in writing but I am wary of dealing with them by phone as I was misled with the original agreement I made when my son was ill

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  • 1 month later...

I refused to identify myself on the phone by answering their security questionsand then actually receivd a letter back with a payment plan of £200 per month. I passed this on to Trading Standards and also signed the release for TS to talk to them about the account. I have today received a solicitors letter which has also been passed on to Trading Standards. I am thinking of going down Stevie s route and starting to collect sworn affadavits from others who have been told their interest was frozen and subsequently Paragon have no records of this

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  • 1 year later...

I had an original loan from Paragon in 2000 which I defaulted on due to unemployment. Began a DMP with CCCS and somewhere along the way it got sold to Global. I was never given any notice of this or saw a deed of assignment so there are issues there around processing my data. I had a number of other creditors and over the years I paid off those debts til early last year I found myself retired and too disabled to work. I also found this forum and decided to end my DMP and go the "prova the debt" route with my remaining creditors.

 

There were 5:-

 

Barclaycard - had kept debt in house frozen interest and never pressed me. Only owed £200 ish so paid that off.

 

IQQR (?) send CR letter recently they at once returned my cheque and admitted docs "unobtainable" so were passing debt back to original creditor.

 

Aktiv Kapital (2 debts) both CR letters returned as "docs unobtainable and we are closing our books etc".

 

While I realise the original creditor could pass them to another DCA I will simply do the same until all become statute barred.

 

Final account is the one Global bought from Paragon somewhere along the way. Have now had a letter from Transcom wanting £150 pm by direct debit. I am about to send the CR/prove the debt letter. I dont own my home - I rent - so the worst as I see it is if they can supply the correct docs they CCJ me and I pay at £1 a month.

 

However Ive read with great admiration of the victories of some on this forum over these scumbags and if I can help it I wont pay them another penny.

 

These are old debts and I reckon they have had enought from me.

 

What was originally an £5000 loan back in 2000 has now grown to £8000 due to their adding interest which I understand is illegal.

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