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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 162 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Need Info on Moorcroft? LOOK here


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I thought seeing as a lot of people are asking simalar questions re moorcroft it would be worth compiling this basic information so people can refer to it.

 

Moorcroft are a DCA and work based on comission. Sometimes they purchase debts and other times they just act on behalf of companies to collect monies owed.

 

They operate on some 'main' accounts such as Orange ( A big one for them and they probably wouldnt be around if it werent for this contract!) British Gas, NTL Powergen, Brittania Music, BT, Royal Bank of Scotland, Egg, Barclaycard to name but a few.

 

UNDERSTANDING THE WAY THEY WORK

 

The call centre staff are working to try and keep their jobs and earn bonus and the only way they can do this is by getting payments on their figures. The way their bonus works is that they get good figures by the following measures.

 

1) Getting an increase on you monthly payment of £10pm ( min £5pm) for future payments. You may be told that your account has been reviewed and its 'due' an increase or you were late by a day and they HAVE to increase your payments.

 

2) By getting full balances or full & final payments ( where they offer you a discount)

 

3) Taking switch payments on accounts.

 

Basically where there is any increase in payment or where a payment is acheived over the phone or by post within 14 days and they have set it up on the system they 'get the credit' for it by it showing on their figures.

This is the motivation for the call operators to be tenacious and order you pay within 14 days. It is NOTHING to do with it HAVING to be paid in this time its just for their own purposes.:???:

 

When dealing with post or emails if someone sends in a financial statement and an offer of payment they HAVE to accept this offer and will not query it. If the offer is below £1pm they will write off the debt ( this purley means they will send it back to the original creditor who may pass it on to anther DCA or contact you directly. )

If the offer was more than £3pm they would keep the debt on and continue to collect payments by either Standing Order ( which you have to set up at your own bank) Giroslip ( paid at the post office but they charge you for this!) or via Bank transfer or card payment.

 

When calling they will ask you the following.

1) Reference number 100XXXXX

2) Full name

3) Address

4) Home number (dont give this out and dial using 141)

5) Work number (dont give this out and dial using 141)

7) Mobile Number (dont give this out and dial using 141)

8 ) Possibly DOB if they have it

9) if you are working ( do not tell them!)

10) if you are a homeowner ( do not tell them!)

 

They will then say something along these lines:

 

"You are calling about the debt with XXXXX for £XXXX the full balance is due immediately to stop any possible court/legal action , I need your card details to pay that now" :o

 

They are NOT allowed to say anything that is classed as threatening i.e You will Be taken to court, If you dont pay we WILL send someone to your house etc as this is against their ISO license agreement. If they do ask to speak to a manager immediatley and they normally send the debt back to the orignal creditor because of this breach.

 

They will always start off by asking for full payment and when you say you cant do they will offer a full and final settlement ( discount on balance). Once you refuse that they will work on getting the highest figures possible and work down to an agreement. ( some people are nicer than others so it does depend on who you speak to). If you want you can ask them to put the account on hold and they will do this by default for 2 weeks normally and this will give you a chance to send in a financial statement etc.;)

 

When offering a full and final settlement they will be allowed to discount to certain amounts depending on the original creditor i.e Barclaycard 60% of full balance but they will not offer you this straight away cos they want more money for their figures so they will start at 90% and then generally move down. The percentage varies from account to account and a couple do not offer Full and finals at all! i.e United Utilities

 

In order to go for a CCJ ( County court judgement) they require to know if you are working and a homeowner then they will do a credit check on you and apply for it but this doesnt happen very often and if you have already sent them a financial statement they will not even try as a court would base repayments on this anyway so their is no point. :rolleyes:

 

Home collections are part of moorcroft and they will only be passed to them if they know you live at the address they have. They will also send to Home collections if you point blank refuse to pay but this takes around 1 1/2 months for someone to turn up. :)

 

When Moorcroft do outbound calls they need to be sure they are speaking to the correct person and avoid stating who they are untill they are positive they have the correct person. If you ring them back from 1471 and your number isnt private they will be able to view your number and will stall you whilst they find your account. If they cant view your number they will tell you they are a group of companies and they need your name or address to find out what it was about. If you dont give this information they wont push too hard as the dialler will call you back at some point. The dialler dials various numbers then when someone anwers the call is passed to an operator to speak to you.

 

Of course if you dont wish to deal with them over the phone you can send them a letter to state you only wish to deal with them in writing....Use the template listed in the link at the bottom of the page.

 

 

I have provided this information for those of you who do want to make payments and would like to know where you stand but if you do not want to deal with them then you can of course request a CCA and see if they can provide you with your original credit agreement.

 

Useful templates

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-bailiffs-advice/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

If there is anything I have missed and you wish to know just PM me...in addition if you feel that this information has been of use please let me know by clicking the scales to the left.

  • Haha 3
  • Confused 1

Maxibon

 

 

Gonna take them for all I can and enjoy every second!:lol:

 

 

RBS Account 1- S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 20/12/2006

RBS Account 2 - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 20/12/2006

RBS Ac1- recvd S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) 28/12/2006

Statements recvd Account 1 on 05/01/07

LBA issued for Account 1 on 06/01/07

7 days grace being given till 09/02/07

Still no Response to S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) on Acc 2

Breach on acc 2 DPA request

N1 filed acc 2 28/02/07

Acknowledged 16/03/07

Defense submitted 30/03/07

 

If you need any advice re Moorcroft just ask!! :cool:

 

If I have been of any help and you think I deserve it!

Please click my scales to the left and if you wish leave a comment :D

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an interesting read maxibon.

 

moorcroft have now become involved with a disputed studio debt, sending a letter stating full payment in 14 days or court action will follow.

 

I emailed back through their website stating that cca request has not been fulfilled - therefore debt unenforcable. That was 7 days ago and I've heard nothing since. Just hope no one turns up at my home address!

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an interesting read maxibon.

 

moorcroft have now become involved with a disputed studio debt, sending a letter stating full payment in 14 days or court action will follow.

 

I emailed back through their website stating that cca request has not been fulfilled - therefore debt unenforcable. That was 7 days ago and I've heard nothing since. Just hope no one turns up at my home address!

 

Hi there,

 

The call centre staff do the post first thing in the morning along with answering calls and tey are pushed to finish a certain amount within a certain time. therefore they do not tend to action it correctly. I would not be suprised if they didnt comply to your CCA request.

Whilst they are in breach of this they are not allowed to attempt to collect on your debt as its 'in dispute'.

I would expect another letter before they even consider sending somone to your home address. Have you had a few letters already or first one??

If someone does turn up they have no powers whatsoever so just tell them to leave as they are trespassing or you will call the police. They are just a local Joe Bloggs who is working for them to collect debtson comission, they have the same powers as you or me. ;)

I would let them default after the time expires and they as you say it becomes unenforceable! Good for you!!! :lol:

  • Confused 1

Maxibon

 

 

Gonna take them for all I can and enjoy every second!:lol:

 

 

RBS Account 1- S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 20/12/2006

RBS Account 2 - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 20/12/2006

RBS Ac1- recvd S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) 28/12/2006

Statements recvd Account 1 on 05/01/07

LBA issued for Account 1 on 06/01/07

7 days grace being given till 09/02/07

Still no Response to S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) on Acc 2

Breach on acc 2 DPA request

N1 filed acc 2 28/02/07

Acknowledged 16/03/07

Defense submitted 30/03/07

 

If you need any advice re Moorcroft just ask!! :cool:

 

If I have been of any help and you think I deserve it!

Please click my scales to the left and if you wish leave a comment :D

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Hiya Maxibon,

 

Moorcroft are v. likely to default on my CCA request this Monday. I have been paying them for the last 4 years via Standing Order ? Any advice ? Should I cancel the SO or wait for the calendar month to go by as well ? What are they likely to do ? :)

 

Hi there,

 

You would be within your rights to cancel the SO as the debt is in dispute so you do not have to make payments whilst the CCA is being actioned. I would suspect either your request has ben filed in the B1N or they will pass the debt back to the original creditor as they do not like getting involved in things like this. They do HAVE to compy though as if they are acting as DCA they still have to supply the original CCA. ;)

 

I would not expect them to though as their post handling skills are beyond a joke. Cancel the SO and they are not allowed to try to collect whilst this is in dispute anyway so your are within your rights to do this.

I would imagine they will try to chase you though so just tell them its in dispute and you require it be put on hold for at least 2 weeks to 1 month whilst its being looked at.

 

Good luck as I doubt they will comply!

Maxibon

 

 

Gonna take them for all I can and enjoy every second!:lol:

 

 

RBS Account 1- S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 20/12/2006

RBS Account 2 - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent 20/12/2006

RBS Ac1- recvd S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) 28/12/2006

Statements recvd Account 1 on 05/01/07

LBA issued for Account 1 on 06/01/07

7 days grace being given till 09/02/07

Still no Response to S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) on Acc 2

Breach on acc 2 DPA request

N1 filed acc 2 28/02/07

Acknowledged 16/03/07

Defense submitted 30/03/07

 

If you need any advice re Moorcroft just ask!! :cool:

 

If I have been of any help and you think I deserve it!

Please click my scales to the left and if you wish leave a comment :D

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Hi can you clear up a confusion of mine if i ask for the cca is this the consumer credit agreement , how long do they have to get to me if they dont does this mean the whole debt is then unenforcable or just the collection agencie cant.... if they then get it can they then collect again? Sorry very new at this and ifs all spinint round in my head thanks

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hi

 

the cca is the consumer credit agreement. from what I understand, they have twelve working days to send it you once they have received your request and a £1 fee. If they dont, the debt becomes unenforceable without a court order. IF, after a further 30 days you have not received your signed cca, they have committed an offence.

 

Although the debt is unenforceable - they cant chase you for payment - it still exists, but they would need to go to court to seek permission to chase you for the debt.

 

This is how I believe the whole thing works, but if I have anything wrong someone will come along and give us the correct info.

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Although the debt is unenforceable - they can't chase you for payment - it still exists, but they would need to go to court to seek permission to chase you for the debt.

 

 

This is the part which I have trouble understanding. I have read time and again that the debt is unenforceable without the DCA taking folk to court, yet it still exists. What are the implications of it still existing ? I assume this means that they can still take us to court if they can produce the CCA... despite being late with it and despite the criminal offence after one calendar month... shameful really...

 

If the DCA has collected on a debt without the necessary paperwork, then folk should be able to claim these payments back. However, I have also seen differing views on this. Some peple say that it's possible and others say it's not because it would then be up to us to prove that no debt existed at all.

 

Surely this is not the issue ?.... the issue for me would be that there was a debt at some point, but the original creditor took the decision to pass my data forward to a seperate company without my permission and without a Deed of Assignment.... Moorcroft then seized an opportunity to collect money that had nothing to do with them because there was never a contractual agreement with them (hence, no paperwork).... Would this not come under trying obtain money by deception ?

 

If so, we should then be well within our rights to claim it back without any legal obstructions from the court ?

 

Any comments from anyone would be appreciated... thank you...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Great Info, Thanks

 

But one question.... by any chance do you know what the lowest percentage they will go down to on Marks and Spencer accounts? It would be great If you knew.

 

Ive offered to pay £500 to settle a debt of £1200 as I am not working at the moment and have no way of paying. They said that was no good and would not even take an offer of £10 per month and are now continuing with the Litigation.

 

Thankyou :)

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moorcroft keep threatening to take me to court. today i emailed them saying this is the action i want them to take and will not correspond any further, but i will be defending on account of no cca.

 

hopefully i haven't now shot myself in the foot, but we'll see what happens next - and if their threats are as empty as people seem to think.

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Yeah I know what you mean but Im angry now with them cos my debt only got passed to them in the beginning of Jan and I have had 2 letters from them , the second being on 23rd Jan threatning Litigation, I mean talk about rushing things. Im not sure if they can deal with it anyway when Id began claiming charges back with Marks and Spencer, so surely that is classed as a dispute on the balance.

 

Any way Im Kirsty btw just so u dont have to keep spelling my id lol xx

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