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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 162 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.


      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Desperate man needs good advice

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I will try and paste below the whole sorry story. It contains so much detail, I did not know what else to do but put it all down.


Dear Sirs

I have been experiencing some problems with my bank (HSBC) which have escalated since I tried to complain. These problems have now become critical and I am at a loss as to what to do.

To give you a little background I am a divorced 43 yr old man who operates as a self employed electrician/plumber. I have been trading for about 2 and half years and have a good customer base and a good continuing order book. My average monthly income is now £2400-00 gross. My fixed monthly expenditure is as follows.

  • £450 rent/CC/water
  • £60 gas/elec
  • £70-00 mobile
  • £50-00 yellow pages/Thompson
  • £250 bank loan (£4500 outstanding)
  • £150 car/fuel/ins/tax
  • £250 food/clothes
  • £50 house hold
  • £150 self
  • £30-00 pet/house insurance
  • £10-00 TV licence

Total £1520-00

As you can see I am solvent as long as I can continue to trade. My bank however has a different view ever since about 3 months ago I had the audacity to complain about the level of charges being applied to my account.

In August 2006 I had a £1500 overdraft facility and a £2000 limit commercial card along with a £2000 limit personal credit card. My business was doing OK. I needed to move as I was living in a 1 bedroom first floor flat with no suitable storage. A mate of mine split up from his girlfriend and he needed a housemate to share the cost of rental and bills. It was a house with off street parking; I could have the storage and the whole of the first floor. This provided a double bedroom and a separate office with more storage. It also saved me £75 per month in rent. My cash flow was a little tight having taken on a couple of commercial customers who required 30 day terms and took over 60 days to pay so I approached my bank for a commercial loan to repay the expensive credit card debt and overdraft. During this meeting it became clear that the bank had recently downgraded my credit rating due to them returning 2 items unpaid this as a result of my customers not paying me on time and after having to spend £500 on my car unexpectedly.

My application for the loan was declined despite the repayments being lower than those required to keep the current borrowing in place. I explained that the house move was going ahead and that there would be a shortfall on my commercial card repayment. He stated there was nothing that could be done and that my credit score had been dropped still further by its refusal. The only option I had left open to me was to exceed my overdraft limit by £500 to pay the £1500 bill then to withdraw £500 on the card to bring me back within my limit. A expensive solution to the problem. What choice did I have?

HSBC however had different ideas they withdrew the commercial card, giving, as a reason my exceeding of my overdraft limit. This of course sunk completely my plans and generated them around £250 in default charges. It was at this point I raised my objections to the level of charges being applied to my account. I said that given the recent publicity concerning the high street banks over charging for computer generated correspondence related to agreement defaults.

It was at this point that HSBC staff started to ignore my letters and phone calls. Only by calling into my local branch and requesting a meeting with the manager did they reluctantly comply.

My meeting was with Andrew Prosser “manager” Canon Street, Bedminster, Bristol.

From the very outset he was confrontational and adversarial attacking my complaint that HSBC had behaved unfairly with regard to the charges applied to my account. All charges were according to their terms and conditions. When I stated that they were in fact illegal as the law quite clearly states that the bank can not profit from the default notification letters. The banking ombudsman very generously estimated that a computer generated return of the most complex nature would cost the banks no more than £5 and yet HSBC were charging between £15 and £30. With the frequency of the charges they now appeared to have engineered this was totally unacceptable. At this point he declared the meeting over. I handed him a written copy of my complaints which included a number of operational errors on their part which resulted in charges I wasn’t prepared to pay. I am still awaiting a reply to this letter dated 30th October 2006.

I needed to continue to work and did not know what to do next I had been robbed by the bank and then made to feel some how at fault. A couple of weeks later I was listening to the radio programme “money box” and hearing the presenters clearly advise that I was in fact right to feel ripped off and not to give up.

I made an appointment with Adrian Mathews the “regional business manager” that covered my branch but not Bedminster. I told him this story and laid my cards on the table. He was a gentleman and did the same.

He explained in some detail my unfortunate but predictable financial demise. Once the system decides your financial future is doomed it ensures it is proved correct by applying crippling costs when you can least afford it.

As an exercise to quantify the banks contribution to my financial distress we proceeded to add up the default charges applied by HSBC. In the last 12 months and they came to a quite horrifying £1000+. Using the costs indicated by the ombudsman they should have charged no more than £170 an overcharge of £830.

Adrian explained that there had been a cap of £100 placed on him and £250 on his manager in relation to refunding default charges. He would however be happy to try to get me this maximum refund as he could see the strain my operation was under. To put it in context the maximum I have owed the bank in the past 12 months is £4500. I have paid to them £2260 in interest, fees, default charges and costs to the bank. This is an uneconomic source of credit by any measure.

Having returned £350 to my accounts as promised on the 8th January they proceeded to charge me £75 for 3 returned items. These default charges were objected to in my letter of complaint dated 30th October 2006. I am still awaiting their reply. Get the impression they are not taking this seriously?

I have today requested a full list of charges (for the past 6 years or when the account was opened, whichever the longer), paid the appropriate fees and intend applying the same rational to the charges applied during this period.

I have to make a payment on Monday of £250 for the loan which I could just manage but would leave me without any cash at all. My income next week should be around £650 if allowed to work. I don’t know what to do

Please help me !

Andrew Carter

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Hello Andrew and welcome to CAG/BAG.


I'm not going to try to answer your questions right now, simply say that you have already started to solve your problems by posting on here. I'm sure you already feel a bit better for unburdening yourself! It's a sorry tale, but one that has been told many times by others on here, so you're in good company.:)


There will be plenty of help for you when the cavalry rides over the hill in the morning! As your problems are specific to HSBC, a moderator will probably move this thread to the HSBC Forum. There you will get help from other HSBC claimants with special knowledge of that bank.


The only suggestion I will make right now is, if you haven't already done so, to open another account or two, just in case. You must have a facility, no matter how basic, to continue trading. (I managed it with a building society account!).


From today it will start to get better!:)



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Andrew, Welcome to the forum. I am sorry to read your plight! However, you are in good hands here, and within a couple of months, you will be smiling again.


You say you have asked for your statements going back six years. This needs to be done properly by sending a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request, template letter on this site under 'bank template letters'. You must enclose £10 and send by recorded delivery to their head office. Done this way, they have 40 days in which to comply. Basically, it ensures that they cannot delay their response and delay you getting your money back, which from the sounds of it, you need pronto! Banks will often claim not to have received your request or £10 if you havent followed the correct procedure.


Hopefully, you have done this and we look forward to your next update.

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