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Thanxs for a site full of information read through loads of bits but re-read the early stages as just starting my claim with abbey

 

Just wrote and got my SAR letter done ready for posting.

 

be intresting to see what they send back to me as my account has been with them for 14 years so will want all the information they hold.

 

The amount they owe me from charges in the last 6 years i know will exceed the £5000 mark is it possible to file for charges to be reimbused as seperate cases E.g claim for period Apr 04 - Apr 07 as one case/claim and Apr 01 - Apr 04 as claim 2 and if successful on these then goto claim for the time previous to the last 6 years as another claim

MY CASE

 

Newbody Vs Abbey

 

NB: Please read the FAQs & step-by-step instructions thoroughly & completely before commencing any action

 

the following is a link to a web archive of abbey websites over the time click on month under year to access Abbey's site for that time period to get what the terms and conditions were for when you opened your account Internet Archive Wayback Machine hope it helps or here for where i have started to pull them out to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/91707-archives-abbeys-web-pages.html

 

Advice & opinions given by me are my views or how i would respond, and are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group & are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions & actions are your own - if in any doubt, seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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Hi Newbody.

 

Yes you can split the claim into two. Claim the earlier period first. Don't file the second claim until the first is settled and paid, because if they are both seen in the courts at the same time they may well get linked together.

Beyond six years your run into the statue of limitations which is not so straight forwards. Some people are claiming this but it is by no means cut and dried at the moment.

 

Regards, Rooster.

If this has been useful to you, please click on the scales at bottom left of post. Thanks.

 

Advice & opinions of Rooster-UK are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Please use your own judgment.

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So just to make sure i got it right your saying claim for apr 01 -apr 04 first thanxs for the fast reply

MY CASE

 

Newbody Vs Abbey

 

NB: Please read the FAQs & step-by-step instructions thoroughly & completely before commencing any action

 

the following is a link to a web archive of abbey websites over the time click on month under year to access Abbey's site for that time period to get what the terms and conditions were for when you opened your account Internet Archive Wayback Machine hope it helps or here for where i have started to pull them out to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/91707-archives-abbeys-web-pages.html

 

Advice & opinions given by me are my views or how i would respond, and are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group & are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions & actions are your own - if in any doubt, seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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So just to make sure i got it right your saying claim for apr 01 -apr 04 first

Or alternatively, start from the earliest charges until they reach £5000ish and claim for those ie the bulk and then when that claim is settled, claim for the latest charges and by that time there may well be a few more to add on!!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ok update time havent phoned abbey or anything else yet recieved in the post this morning this

 

 

 

Abbey [J1]

 

 

Abbey PO Box 1109 Bradford BD1 5ZJ

 

 

If you have any questions

 

please call: 08457654321

 

fax: 01274368639

 

25 January 2007

 

Our ref: XXXXXXXXX/XXXX Account Number: XXXXXXXXXXX

 

 

 

Thank you for your letter dated 13 January 2007, which we received on 16 January 2007, requesting information on your bank account. I also acknowledge receipt of your £10 fee.

 

I confirm that arrangements have been made for the information you have requested to be sent to you. The transactional information remaining on our systems, normally covering the last fourteen months, will be sent out in the form of individual duplicate statements. You should receive these within five to seven working days of the date of this letter.

 

Any previous transactions have been archived onto microfiche and it is not possible to provide you with a computer print out of this information. However, we have made arrangements to send you a list of archived transactions between 2000 and 2005, under separate cover.

 

You have also asked for details of any 'manual interventions' that may have been made on your account and I am sorry that we are unable to help with this request.

 

I can explain that we consider 'manual intervention' to mean an action that is not automatic or computer-driven. Not all manual interventions are recorded, for example if a member of staff looks at a paper document relating to your account, a record is not always required. Similarly some interventions may relate to work carried out by a department rather than individuals where no central record of activity is kept because this is not the kind of information we need, or more importantly, that a customer would usually request.

 

Abbey National Credit and Payment Services Ltd is an Appointed Representative of Abbey National plc which is authorised by the Financial Services Authority.

 

Abbey National plc. Registered Office; Abbey National House, 2 Triton Square, Regent's Place, London NWI 3AN, United Kingdom. Registered Number 2294747. Registered in England. www,abbey,comTelephone0870 607 6000:BT calls cost max Sp min 5.Sp per minute. Other companies and mobile costs may vary. Calls may be recorded or monitored. Authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. FSA registration number 106054. Abbey and the flame logo are registered trademarks.

 

Abbey National plc advises on Phoenix Life Assurance Limited's life assurance and pension products, advises on its own mortgage and collective investment scheme products, and acts as an insurance intermediary for general insurance. MISe 0337 JUL 06 F

 

XXXXXX

 

 

 

 

Now the way i read this is they are sending me all my account information for the last 6 years without arguing the microfiche Stance on it

 

My argument now would be that my account dates back to 1994 with Abbey so i want all the information to the account though at the minute i am only going to be claiming for the last 6 years in seperate cases as i believe the figures involved are going to be ridiculous even for this short period of time (what can i say i am a banks dream for charges i just can never budget for a month :lol: :lol: :lol: )

 

Once i have delt with the time frame where there appears to be least resistance i will then be intrested in being a guniea pig for a case over the 6 year period to see what happens subject to the origional cases bringing good results

 

But to do this i need to have the information for the account previous to 2000 which they are supplying me

 

so i have drafted the following letter

 

 

Thank you for your letter dated the 25th January 2007 stating that you have received my Subject access request stating that you will be forwarding me copies of all statements for the last 14 months and for the archives of your microfiche information from 2000 to 2005 to be forwarded to me as well shortly after

However my original request was for a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my banking history with your organisation. Which the time period you are sending only covers part of this as my account with yourself dates back even further. I would like for all information to which you have on me and this account

Sent to me A.S.A.P.

Failing this information being available to me the I would like to know when, where & how they where destroyed.

If you should make the additional information available to me and I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and any other fees I incur trying to get hold of this information

 

Also though I acknowledge your receipt of your letter dated 25th January 2007 may I remind you that there is only 24 days remaining for ALL the information in regards this account and myself to reach me or I will be forced to lodge a complaint of non-compliance with the Information Commissioner in regards this matter.

 

What are your thoughts on this and what happening so far

MY CASE

 

Newbody Vs Abbey

 

NB: Please read the FAQs & step-by-step instructions thoroughly & completely before commencing any action

 

the following is a link to a web archive of abbey websites over the time click on month under year to access Abbey's site for that time period to get what the terms and conditions were for when you opened your account Internet Archive Wayback Machine hope it helps or here for where i have started to pull them out to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/91707-archives-abbeys-web-pages.html

 

Advice & opinions given by me are my views or how i would respond, and are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group & are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions & actions are your own - if in any doubt, seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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Ok letter in the post

 

couple quick questions

 

after reading some of the other threads on here i notice defaults have been issued against people while they have bought action against the banks Would i be correct in assuming a default is when you exceed your credit limits i.e unauthorised over draft and any instance where you have had payments returned unpaid

How do you know if you have had a default against you

would a request under a normal SAR (used the standard letter from here) include any defaults lodged against you on it

Where would the best place be to find out what defaults i have against me and what cost would i look at to find out this information

As i am viewing it for now start stock piling the ammunition as a fight is on the way:D :D so it is nice to have as much information to hand so you are ready for their responses:) :) :)

MY CASE

 

Newbody Vs Abbey

 

NB: Please read the FAQs & step-by-step instructions thoroughly & completely before commencing any action

 

the following is a link to a web archive of abbey websites over the time click on month under year to access Abbey's site for that time period to get what the terms and conditions were for when you opened your account Internet Archive Wayback Machine hope it helps or here for where i have started to pull them out to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/91707-archives-abbeys-web-pages.html

 

Advice & opinions given by me are my views or how i would respond, and are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group & are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions & actions are your own - if in any doubt, seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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Newbody,

If a default is issued - they ought to inform you in writing "pay within 28 days or default will be issued etc.." type of thing.

 

It may be worthwhile getting your experian report from Credit Reference Agency costs 2 pounds it will show you what companies are writing about you etc..

My CCA skeleton argument to use in court -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/cabot/115280-useful-information.html

 

Useful Letters (CCA request is letter N)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

CAG A-Z list of useful places in CAG -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/69359-cant-find-what-youre.html

 

Introduction to Consumer Litigation -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/108467-basic-introduction-consumer-credit.html

CABOT THREADS -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/131321-cabot-threads.html

 

ALWAYS SEEK A PROFESSIONAL OPINION FROM QUALIFIED ADVISORS - any advice offered is from my own experience and knowledge - I am NOT qualified.

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Hi Newbody and Welcome!

 

Like you my claim exceeded £5k and I spent ages debating whether to go for the full amount Fast track or file 2 small claims. See my thread Getting my knickers in a twist about going to court! to read some of the discussions we had about it. In the end I opted for Fast track for the full amount but included the following with my Allocation Questionnaire:

 

D – Track

&

H – Other Information

 

I am respectfully requesting that my claim be allocated to the small claims track. This issue is not a complicated one; it is an issue of fact and not of law. The issue is only whether the money levied by the Defendant in respect of its customer’s contractual breaches exceeds their actual costs incurred. I am happy to pay their actual costs and I am surprised the Defendant did not counterclaim for these, because I would have paid them without argument.

 

However, the continuing problem is (in common with the 100s of other cases currently being brought by other bank customers) that the banks refuse to reveal the details of their penalty-charging regime. As the banks have a fiduciary duty towards their customers, they have a duty to deal straightforwardly and in utmost good faith.

 

Accordingly, I would respectfully ask that the court in this case, not withstanding allocation to the small claims track, order standard disclosure. I understand that it is in the courts discretion to do so. I believe this would bring a rapid end to this litigation.

Abbey agreed to this and the claim was moved to Small Claims "by mutual consent".

 

To an extent I regret moving to SCC as if I'd stayed with Fast Track I could have claimed expenses - also it's worth noting that none of the banks has actually gone to court yet.

 

If you look at Karnevils posts on my thread you'll see that she has loads of useful links in her signature.

 

I'm afraid I can't help you with info about defaults. I'd guess you would have to write to one of the credit ref agencies such as Experian and I believe it shouldn't cost more than £2. Hopefully someone with more knowledge will help you with that one.

 

Edit - Oops - Elizabeth posted while I was still typing!!

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OK UPDATE

 

First 14months statements arrived this lunchtime all in seperate envelopes all packed with same leaflet garbage

 

have gone through the statements for the period

 

now i stopped using my account in May 06 as it had spiralled out of control (i get account in order they apply charges Surprise surprise not enough to cover DD etc and the cycle continues) and abbey wernt prepared to help me get it under control by extending overdraft to cover their charges

 

so from dec-05 to the last charge hitting in may 06 which was for an incident in april of that year the charges are £1015 without any intrest

 

so now awaiting the microfiched copies to arrive

 

Question where due to charges it has put me outside my agreed overdraft as was the case from feb 06 until now they have added intrest while account overdrawn and have done this for a further 2 months after i ceased using this account (last default dd paid in may for action in april)amounting to £52.12 would i be entitled to add this to my claim as the account wasnt in use and the intrest was only accurred to the charges putting my account outside it's agreed limits

or would i be better ignore this sum in the final claim and just going for contractural intrest at what the rate would be at time in question with the option for judge to drop that to the 8% from sec69 if he feels that, that is more in keeping with the law

 

as they say still away to go yet but trying to keep on top of it all as i go

 

Will update some more when the microfiche documents arrive or the next corresponence is entered into with them

MY CASE

 

Newbody Vs Abbey

 

NB: Please read the FAQs & step-by-step instructions thoroughly & completely before commencing any action

 

the following is a link to a web archive of abbey websites over the time click on month under year to access Abbey's site for that time period to get what the terms and conditions were for when you opened your account Internet Archive Wayback Machine hope it helps or here for where i have started to pull them out to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/91707-archives-abbeys-web-pages.html

 

Advice & opinions given by me are my views or how i would respond, and are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group & are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions & actions are your own - if in any doubt, seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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ok UPDATE microfiche information for last 6 years arrived today still missing first set of 6 years but that i will follow up later as they still have time to respond on that.

 

Now i am looking at caliming for compound contractural rate of interest so if i am correct i would add that to my prelim letter also i am looking at using their unauthorised intrest rate as well

 

so that said a copy of my prelim letter follows if someone in the know can check it out and make sure i havent made any mistakes it would be appreciated

ABBEY NATIONAL PLC

ABBEY NATIONAL HOUSE

2 TRITON SQUARE

REGENT'S PLACE

LONDON

NW1 3AN

 

6th February 2007

 

 

 

Request for repayment of charges

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXX Sort code: XX-XX-XX

 

My request

I am writing to ask you to refund to me the charges which you have levied from my account over the last 6 years.

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations. If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.

Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

 

Your responsibilities

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

 

What I require

I calculate that you have taken £4454.00 plus interest on this amount at your current unauthorised overdraft rate of 28.7% equalling £6726.35 which you would have charged me in interest for the sum which you have taken. Making a total outstanding of £ 11180.35.

 

I believe I am entitled to this interest rate due to the implied term in the bank contract based on the principle of "mutuality" or "reciprocity"

 

I enclose a schedule of the charges which I am claiming with this letter

 

additionally you have entered a default notice against my credit record. This default occurred merely in respect of unlawful charges levied by you or was the result of impecuniosity’s caused directly by the taking by you of penalty charges which you had applied unlawfully to my account.

 

In addition to full payment of the sum mentioned above, I require that you remove the default entry from the register. Please note that mere correction or amendment to the entry will not be acceptable.

 

 

My targets to resolve this matter

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

 

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

 

After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

X XXXXXX

 

for my summary of schedule of charges i have used Vampiress's compounded contractural interest (simple) spreadsheet and changed the 8% to abbey's current unauthorised rate of 28.7%

 

Thank you in advance for any help on this

MY CASE

 

Newbody Vs Abbey

 

NB: Please read the FAQs & step-by-step instructions thoroughly & completely before commencing any action

 

the following is a link to a web archive of abbey websites over the time click on month under year to access Abbey's site for that time period to get what the terms and conditions were for when you opened your account Internet Archive Wayback Machine hope it helps or here for where i have started to pull them out to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/91707-archives-abbeys-web-pages.html

 

Advice & opinions given by me are my views or how i would respond, and are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group & are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions & actions are your own - if in any doubt, seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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link for abbey intrest rates

 

Abbey - Abbey current account - Rates

MY CASE

 

Newbody Vs Abbey

 

NB: Please read the FAQs & step-by-step instructions thoroughly & completely before commencing any action

 

the following is a link to a web archive of abbey websites over the time click on month under year to access Abbey's site for that time period to get what the terms and conditions were for when you opened your account Internet Archive Wayback Machine hope it helps or here for where i have started to pull them out to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/91707-archives-abbeys-web-pages.html

 

Advice & opinions given by me are my views or how i would respond, and are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group & are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions & actions are your own - if in any doubt, seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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Shameless bump:p

MY CASE

 

Newbody Vs Abbey

 

NB: Please read the FAQs & step-by-step instructions thoroughly & completely before commencing any action

 

the following is a link to a web archive of abbey websites over the time click on month under year to access Abbey's site for that time period to get what the terms and conditions were for when you opened your account Internet Archive Wayback Machine hope it helps or here for where i have started to pull them out to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/91707-archives-abbeys-web-pages.html

 

Advice & opinions given by me are my views or how i would respond, and are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group & are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions & actions are your own - if in any doubt, seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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Newbody,

for my summary of schedule of charges i have used Vampiress's compounded contractural interest (simple) spreadsheet and changed the 8% to abbey's current unauthorised rate of 28.7%
Sorry to say but that's not right. 8% is "simple" interest and 28.7% is "compound" - the formulae are completely different. I think you need the "complex" spreadsheet. regards, Mad Nick

Abbey £8370 settled 17 Apr 07

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Sorry think i miss quoted it above

Throughout claim with compounded contractual interest is what the sheet was headed

 

copy of the page from top i used template 2

 

ENGLAND AND WALES

SIMPLE VERSION - choose to claim all or no bank interest

1 Throughout claim with contractual interest HERE

OR

2 Throughout claim with compounded contractual interest HERE (Vamp's recommended if you've no balance detail)

OR

MY CASE

 

Newbody Vs Abbey

 

NB: Please read the FAQs & step-by-step instructions thoroughly & completely before commencing any action

 

the following is a link to a web archive of abbey websites over the time click on month under year to access Abbey's site for that time period to get what the terms and conditions were for when you opened your account Internet Archive Wayback Machine hope it helps or here for where i have started to pull them out to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/91707-archives-abbeys-web-pages.html

 

Advice & opinions given by me are my views or how i would respond, and are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group & are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions & actions are your own - if in any doubt, seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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ok update just recieved standard letter from abbey in response to prelim letter

Abbey

Banking Specialist Team

PO Box 5885

Milton Keynes

MK101FA

Tel: 0845 600 6014

Fax: 0845 600 1378

Typetalk: 18001 08456006014

09 February 2007

Our Ref: xxxxxxxxx

Dear XXXXXXXXX

Account No XXXXXXXX

Thank you for contacting us and I am sorry that you have been so unhappy that you

have felt you must complain.

One of my team will be responsible for investigating your complaint and I have

enclosed our Complaints leaflet, which explains our procedure for doing this. High

quality customer service is of great importance to us at Abbey and we will do

everything we can to resolve your complaint in a timely and satisfactory manner.

I know it is important to you that we resolve your complaint quickly, but we want to

complete a thorough investigation and sometimes this can take time. If we have not

contacted you before then, we will write to you in four weeks to let you know what is

happening.

If you have employed someone to handle your complaint on your behalf, please note:

employing a third party complaint-handling firm, or a solicitor, or financial adviser

does not affect how we review your complaint. Please be aware that:

• Abbey does not charge you to investigate your complaint

• Abbey will not be liable for any costs incurred if you do decide to employ a

third party to handle your complaint during this review

• Abbey, in general, will only make payment directly to the account holder(s) if

your complaint is upheld and redress is due

Although I do not know what the outcome will be, I do hope that we will be able to

find a solution that you are happy with.

Yours sincerely

Andrew Nanson

Business Manager

Ene. Complaints Leaflet

 

they still have 7 days under prelim letter so 7 days till i fiile the LBA

MY CASE

 

Newbody Vs Abbey

 

NB: Please read the FAQs & step-by-step instructions thoroughly & completely before commencing any action

 

the following is a link to a web archive of abbey websites over the time click on month under year to access Abbey's site for that time period to get what the terms and conditions were for when you opened your account Internet Archive Wayback Machine hope it helps or here for where i have started to pull them out to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/91707-archives-abbeys-web-pages.html

 

Advice & opinions given by me are my views or how i would respond, and are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group & are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions & actions are your own - if in any doubt, seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ok update time heard nothing more scince the above standard letter from abbey so now to send them the standard letter beforee action from here then await the next 14 days

 

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXX Sort code: XXXXX

 

 

I am very disappointed that you have failed to respond satisfactorily to my letter of the 6th February 2007.

I now understand that the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations thus meaning you have being doing me wrong by these acts. If such is not the case then a breakdown of what your costs in administering these charges to my account would be appreciated stating that they are inline with other finasncial institutions does not represent them being a true cost as from recent media events other financial establishments are also being bought to task over their current charging regime

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I calculate that you have taken £xxxx.00 from my account so what I require to resolve this matter is the £xxxx.00 plus interest on this amount at your current unauthorised overdraft rate of 28.7% equalling £xxxx.06 (which you would have charged me in interest for the sum which you have taken had I taken it under the same circumstances). Making a total outstanding of £xxxxx.06 as of today’s date increasing daily due to the interest until this matter is resolved.

I am enclosing a copy of the schedule of the charges which I am claiming. I have already sent you a copy of this in my original letter of the 6th February 2007.

Additionally you have entered a default notice against my credit record. This default occurred merely in respect of unlawful charges levied by you or was the result of impecuniosity’s caused directly by the taking by you of penalty charges which you had applied unlawfully to my account.

In addition to full payment of the sum mentioned above I require that you remove the default entry from the register. Please note that mere correction or amendment to the entry will not be acceptable.

 

I require repayment in full of this money and removal of the default notice. If you do not comply fully within 14 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus a claim under ss.7 and 13 of the Data Protection Act 1998 plus my costs and without further notice.

 

Furthermore, I shall submit a Consumer Credit Act 1974 complaint to the OFT upon the basis that you have failed to comply with the OFT's direction of 5 April 2006 and are therefore not a 'fit and proper person' to hold a consumer credit licence under the 1974 Act. If you do not understand what this means then seek advice from your legal department.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Newbody

MY CASE

 

Newbody Vs Abbey

 

NB: Please read the FAQs & step-by-step instructions thoroughly & completely before commencing any action

 

the following is a link to a web archive of abbey websites over the time click on month under year to access Abbey's site for that time period to get what the terms and conditions were for when you opened your account Internet Archive Wayback Machine hope it helps or here for where i have started to pull them out to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/91707-archives-abbeys-web-pages.html

 

Advice & opinions given by me are my views or how i would respond, and are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group & are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions & actions are your own - if in any doubt, seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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Goodluck newbody - won't be too long now just stick to your timetable and file your claim when it's the right time and you'll be far off then!!!

My CCA skeleton argument to use in court -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/cabot/115280-useful-information.html

 

Useful Letters (CCA request is letter N)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

CAG A-Z list of useful places in CAG -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/69359-cant-find-what-youre.html

 

Introduction to Consumer Litigation -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/108467-basic-introduction-consumer-credit.html

CABOT THREADS -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/131321-cabot-threads.html

 

ALWAYS SEEK A PROFESSIONAL OPINION FROM QUALIFIED ADVISORS - any advice offered is from my own experience and knowledge - I am NOT qualified.

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Yeap it my worst bit sitting waiting time table lba was done just after prelim ready for today

will start in next couple days on n1 ready to file in 14 days and continue to sit on here reading the different arguments/thoughts on ways to go for Claim + contractural/compound

MY CASE

 

Newbody Vs Abbey

 

NB: Please read the FAQs & step-by-step instructions thoroughly & completely before commencing any action

 

the following is a link to a web archive of abbey websites over the time click on month under year to access Abbey's site for that time period to get what the terms and conditions were for when you opened your account Internet Archive Wayback Machine hope it helps or here for where i have started to pull them out to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/91707-archives-abbeys-web-pages.html

 

Advice & opinions given by me are my views or how i would respond, and are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group & are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions & actions are your own - if in any doubt, seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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Newbody, if the letter's not already gone, suggest ask again that they disclose their actual costs associated with your breaches. They won't, but the more times they ignore you the better your Court bundle will look if it ever gets into Court. Regards, Mad Nick

Abbey £8370 settled 17 Apr 07

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MY CASE

 

Newbody Vs Abbey

 

NB: Please read the FAQs & step-by-step instructions thoroughly & completely before commencing any action

 

the following is a link to a web archive of abbey websites over the time click on month under year to access Abbey's site for that time period to get what the terms and conditions were for when you opened your account Internet Archive Wayback Machine hope it helps or here for where i have started to pull them out to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/91707-archives-abbeys-web-pages.html

 

Advice & opinions given by me are my views or how i would respond, and are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group & are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions & actions are your own - if in any doubt, seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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Ok started work on N1 today got Abbey have until 6th March until i can file it but figured start work on it now and try to get some feedback on it before filing so ready to go

 

My case or what i am claiming for

 

Bank charges (bounced dd/cheque/so unauthorised overdraft rate No bank charged interest on these charges )

I am then claiming for compound contractural interest at Abbey's unauthorised rate of 28.7% on the charges under Mutuality and Reciporty / Fairness and balance / quasi contract (still researching the best arguments to use and trying to back it up and learning from thoose that preceed me on these steps

here goes here is what i have in my N1 so far

 

Claimant

XXXXXXXX

XXXXXX

Essex

XXXXXXXX

Defendant

ABBEY NATIONAL PLC

ABBEY NATIONAL HOUSE

2 TRITON SQUARE

REGENT'S PLACE

LONDON

NW1 3AN

 

Brief details of claim

Money claim for return of penalty charges applied to the Claimants bank account by the Defendant

Value

Penalty charges in the sum of £4,454.00 and Interest to be determined as the Court deems just, as per section 10 of the attached Particulars of Claim, with the maximum to not exceed £6,975.13. A maximum total of £11,429.13

Plus any applicable Court fees.

Plus interest from date of issue to date of judgement or earlier payment at a maximum rate of £8.99 per day or at such rate and for such periods as the Court deems just, according to section 9 of the attached Particulars of Claim.

Amount claimed £11,429.13

Does, or will, your claim include any issues under the Human Rights Act 1998? No

Particulars of Claim (attached)(to follow)

1. The Claimant has a Current Account, number XXXXXXX (“the Account”), operating from the Defendant’s XXXXX branch (sort code XXXXX)

2. The Account is governed by the Defendant’s Personal Banking Terms and Conditions (“the contract”)

3. During the period in which the Account has been operating the Defendant has debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract in regards to “Card Misuse”, “Unpaid Items”, “Referral Charge”, etc.. on the part of the Claimant and also charged overdraft interest on the charges once applied.

4. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

5. A schedule of the charges and overdraft interest applied is attached to these particulars of claim (Appendix 1), that itemise the charges and interest charged thereon.

6. The claimant will rely on the Competition Commission’s report entitled “Northern Irish Personal Banking,” published on 20th October, 2006, as evidence that the Defendant is aware that the income derived from its default charges is calculated to generate material profits and is not merely a means of recouping losses incurred in relation to account defaults

7. The claimant will further rely on the Office of Fair Trading’s (“the OFT”) statement of 5th April 2006 concerning default charges in credit card contracts, as the OFT’s recommendations regarding standard default terms in credit card contracts have wider implications, as regards bank current account agreements.

 

8. The Claimant thus contends that:

a) The charges debited to the Account:

i) are punitive in nature;

ii) are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant;

iii) exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract

on the part of the Claimant;

iv) are not intended to represent or relate to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly

enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

 

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999), the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and the common law.

 

c) In the alternative to a) & b) above, if the Court finds that the charges are not a penalty, then the Claimant contends that they are unreasonable within the meaning of s.15 Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982

9. Contractual Interest

a) The Claimant claims compound interest on the amounts claimed under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity in the contract between the Claimant and the Defendant, using the rate and method specified in the said contract, and as is applied by the Defendant to monies it is owed.

b) The Claimant’s grounds for seeking restitution of the compounded contractual rate of interest is that the Defendant would be unjustly enriched if the Claimant's entitlement was limited to the statutory rate of interest in that the Defendant has had use of the sums and would have used these sums to re-lend at commercial compounded rates.

c) The Claimant contends that the taking of unlawful penalties from the Claimant’s Account is deemed as unauthorised borrowing by the Defendant. Therefore, under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity in the contract between the Claimant and the Defendant, in the first instance the Claimant has calculated compound interest at the Defendant’s current unauthorised borrowing rate advertised by the Defendant’s website, being 28.7% EAR. The Claimant understands that the unauthorised borrowing rate at the time of opening the account was actually over 33%, but believes that using the current rate gives a fair result.

d) In the alternative to c), should the taking of unlawful penalties from the Claimant’s Account not be deemed to be unauthorised borrowing by the Defendant, then, under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity in the contract between the Claimant and the Defendant, the Claimant has calculated compound interest at the Defendant’s lowest current authorised borrowing rate for a Royalties account, advertised by the Defendant’s website, being 16.9% EAR .

e) In the alternative to c) and d), if the Court decides that the Claimant is not entitled to the contractual rate of interest under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity in the contract between the Claimant and the Defendant, then the Claimant has calculated interest under section 69 County Courts Act (1984) at the rate of 8% a year

f) Schedules of interest calculated and are attached to these Particulars of Claim as follows:

Appendix 2 – Compound interest calculated daily at an annual rate of 28.7%

Appendix 3 – Compound interest calculated daily at an annual rate of 16.9%

Appendix 4 – Simple interest as per s.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at an annual rate

of 8.00%

Appendix 5 – Print of the Defendant’s website showing the current borrowing rates

(relevant paragraphs marked with an asterisk on pp2&3)

10. Accordingly, the claimant claims:

a) The return of the amounts debited between 23-Dec-2001 and 122-May-2006 in respect of charges in the sum of £4,454.00

b) Any applicable Court fees

c) Compound interest at the contractual rate of 28.7% EAR from the date of each transaction to 6th March 2007 of £6,975.13, and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £8.99

d) In the alternative to c), compound interest at the contractual rate of 16.9% EAR from the date of each transaction to 6th March 2007 of £3,103.51, and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £3.46

e) In the alternative to c) and d), interest under section 69 County Courts Act (1984) at the rate of 8% a year, from the date of each transaction to 6th March 2007, of £1,065.87 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £1.21

Thanxs to Mccuth for this as pinched most of it from his thread

Constructive Comments and revisions are welcomed

 

 

MY CASE

 

Newbody Vs Abbey

 

NB: Please read the FAQs & step-by-step instructions thoroughly & completely before commencing any action

 

the following is a link to a web archive of abbey websites over the time click on month under year to access Abbey's site for that time period to get what the terms and conditions were for when you opened your account Internet Archive Wayback Machine hope it helps or here for where i have started to pull them out to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/91707-archives-abbeys-web-pages.html

 

Advice & opinions given by me are my views or how i would respond, and are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group & are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions & actions are your own - if in any doubt, seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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fiduciary: Definition and Much More from Answers.com

 

Legal Encyclopedia

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Library > Legal > Legal Encyclopedia

This entry contains information applicable to United States law only.

Fiduciary

An individual in whom another has placed the utmost trust and confidence to manage and protect property or money. The relationship wherein one person has an obligation to act for another's benefit.

 

A fiduciary relationship encompasses the idea of faith and confidence and is generally established only when the confidence given by one person is actually accepted by the other person. Mere respect for another individual's judgment or general trust in his or her character is ordinarily insufficient for the creation of a fiduciary relationship. The duties of a fiduciary include loyalty and reasonable care of the assets within custody. All of the fiduciary's actions are performed for the advantage of the beneficiary.

Courts have neither defined the particular circumstances of fiduciary relationships nor set any limitations on circumstances from which such an alliance may arise. Certain relationships are, however, universally regarded as fiduciary. The term embraces legal relationships such as those between attorney and client, broker and principal, principal and agent, trustee and beneficiary, and executors or administrators and the heirs of a decedent's estate.

A fiduciary relationship extends to every possible case in which one side places confidence in the other and such confidence is accepted; this causes dependence by the one individual and influence by the other. Blood relation alone does not automatically bring about a fiduciary relationship. A fiduciary relationship does not necessarily arise between parents and children or brothers and sisters.

The courts stringently examine transactions between people involved in fiduciary relationships toward one another. Particular scrutiny is placed upon any transaction by which a dominant individual obtains any advantage or profit at the expense of the party under his or her influence. Such transaction, in which undue influence of the fiduciary can be established, is void.

 

Real Estate Terms

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Library > Business > Real Estate Terms

Fiduciary One who acts, in a legal role, in the best interests of others.

Examples:

• A Broker is a fiduciary for the seller.

• A banker is a fiduciary for the bank's depositors.

• An attorney may be a fiduciary for the client.

• A Trustee is a fiduciary for the Beneficiaries.

 

 

For memeroy at minute cannot remember the thread we were discussing fiduiary duty on but from above site it gives us that banks are a fiduciary

 

 

Mutuality of Contract

Reciprocal understanding or agreement between parties that is a requirement in the creation of a legally enforceable Contract

 

Banking Terms

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Library > Business > Banking Terms

Contract 1. General. An agreement backed by lawful consideration to carry out actions, exchange assets, or refrain from doing things. A legally valid contract is reached through mutual agreement by persons with the capacity to negotiate, in which each gives up something of value. It must be for a lawful purpose.

 

 

Law Dictionary

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Library > Legal > Law Dictionary

Contract A promise, or set of promises, for breach of which the law gives a remedy, or the performance of which the law in some way recognizes as a duty. 1 Williston, Contracts §1 (4th ed. 1990). The essentials of a valid contract are "parties competent to contract, a proper subject-matter, consideration, mutuality of agreement, and mutuality of obligation," 286 N.W. 844, 846; "a transaction involving two or more individuals whereby each becomes obligated to the other, with reciprocal rights to demand performance of what is promised by each respectively." 282 P. 2d 1084, 1088. "The total legal obligation which results from the parties' agreement as affected by law." U.C.C. §1-201 (11).

 

Law Dictionary

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Library > Legal > Law Dictionary

Reciprocity Generally, a relationship between persons, states, or countries whereby favors or privileges granted by one are returned by the other. Thus, if state A certifies engineers already certified by state B to work in state A, "reciprocity" exists when state B similarly certifies engineers previously certified by state A. Reciprocity does not involve a vested right that would exist without it. See 103 S.E. 2d 205, 208. See also comity.

 

Email addy for abbey is [email protected]

  • Haha 1

MY CASE

 

Newbody Vs Abbey

 

NB: Please read the FAQs & step-by-step instructions thoroughly & completely before commencing any action

 

the following is a link to a web archive of abbey websites over the time click on month under year to access Abbey's site for that time period to get what the terms and conditions were for when you opened your account Internet Archive Wayback Machine hope it helps or here for where i have started to pull them out to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/91707-archives-abbeys-web-pages.html

 

Advice & opinions given by me are my views or how i would respond, and are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group & are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions & actions are your own - if in any doubt, seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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bump

MY CASE

 

Newbody Vs Abbey

 

NB: Please read the FAQs & step-by-step instructions thoroughly & completely before commencing any action

 

the following is a link to a web archive of abbey websites over the time click on month under year to access Abbey's site for that time period to get what the terms and conditions were for when you opened your account Internet Archive Wayback Machine hope it helps or here for where i have started to pull them out to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/91707-archives-abbeys-web-pages.html

 

Advice & opinions given by me are my views or how i would respond, and are not endorsed by the Consumer Action Group & are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions & actions are your own - if in any doubt, seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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Newbody, I just felt that your POC was a bit light on the argument as to why the charges are disproportionate and why that makes them unenforceable. You only mention the NI Banking ref and the OFT credit card report, and I know it probably won't make much difference in the long run because they daren't enter Court, but if you wanted to stitch them up like a kipper:

It is impossible to envisage how the Defendant can incur costs of £30-40 for a default when the rejection of a direct debit, application of the default charge and sending out a computer generated letter are completely automated. The letter received notifying a charge is identical in every instance, and if multiple breaches occurred on the same day, a separate letter will be sent in each instance. The charge is the same regardless of whether the breach of overdraft is £1 or £1000;

5. The Claimant contends that:

a) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy the charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999) paragraph 8 and Schedule 2(1) sub paras (e)(i)(j)(q); the Unfair Contracts Terms Act 1977 section 4 and the common law;

b) the charges are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of costs incurred by the Defendant in relation to the purported breaches; and far exceed the actual costs to the Defendant in each case.

c) The view that such charges are a penalty is supported by common law (inter alia, Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage & Motor Co Ltd [1915] [AC79]; Alfred McAlpine Capital Projects Ltd v Tilebox Ltd [2005] EWHC 281 (TCC); Lordsvale Finance PLC v. Bank of Zambia [QB 752]; Murray v. Leisureplay [EWCA Civ 963]; Bridge v. Campbell Discount Co. Ltd [AC 600]; Commissioner of Public Works v Hills [AC 368]

d) in its replies, the Defendant has ignored the Claimant’s requests (Claimant’s letters dated XXXXXXX and YYYYYYYYYY) to disclose the costs which it incurred as a result of the breaches to which it applied the charges thereby to confirm that its charges are : proportionate to its admin expenses incurred due to the Claimant’s breach of contract; and a genuine pre-estimate of the damage suffered by the Defendant, and not a penalty.

e) the Claimant’s assertion that the Defendant’s default charges far exceed the actual costs to the Defendant in each case and therefore constitute a penalty is supported by :

i. Investigation (December 2004) by the Consumer Law Centre, Victoria, Australia which concluded that Australian Banks’ default charges ($25-50 ≈ £11-22) are at least 5 times greater than their costs of dishonouring cheques and at least 64 times for dishonouring direct debits, and constitute penalties as this is excessive and out of all proportion to their costs;

ii. Treasury Select Committee, 2nd report, 25 January 2005. Banks' evidence (not the Defendant although its charges are similar/competitive) was that their default charges included costs unrelated to an actual breach;

iii. Office of Fair Trading report (OFT842, April 2006) about credit card default charges which stated that default fees have been set at a significantly higher level than is fair for the purposes of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999). The OFT stated that its findings were likely to be relevant to bank account charges;

iv. Members of Parliament who expressed concern about the “exorbitant costs to customers of default charges applied to current and credit card accounts” in two House of Commons Early Day Motions (EDMs 2227/0506 and 500/0607);

v. Competition Commission inquiry into personal banking in Northern Ireland (provisional findings October 2006). The Commission noted that Banks’ default charges include unrelated costs and profit; ie the charges are significantly greater than Banks’ actual costs;

vi. Treasury Select Committee - Thirteenth Report, 7 November 2006, HC1717 which stated that “We are not convinced that penalty charges of up to £39 are reasonable and accurately reflect the costs incurred by the banks.”

vii. Investigation by commission of experts for BBC Money Programme (12 December 06) which concluded that the highest cost which banks could justify were £4.50 for dishonouring cheques, and £2.50 for dishonouring direct debits and dealing with unauthorised overdrafts, compared with typical default charges of £30.

Regards, Mad Nick

Abbey £8370 settled 17 Apr 07

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