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Lloyds TSB Scam or honest mistake? You decide


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Hello,

My wife and i have two joint bank accounts with Lloyds TSB. We have a small overdraft on one of these accounts and online internet banking for both accounts.

Just over two months ago we went passed our overdraft limit by around £2 for one day, so we had to pay a £30 overdraft excess fee.

After that happened, we were determined it would never happen again, so we made sure that we logged into our accounts online at least twice every day to make sure we were ok.

On the 18/12/06, i logged into our account when i was online at lunch time and everything was ok and we were not overdrawn, but i was expecting a few amounts to come out as we had just bought some Christmas presents for the kids .

I checked the account again on the same day 18/12/06 when i got home from work and we were still not overdrawn.

At around 10:00pm i checked again and this time we were overdrawn and passed our overdraft limit by £3.65.

I immediately clicked onto our second account and transferred some money into the overdrawn account to clear the overdraft. I clicked onto our main account again to make sure the money transfer had gone in and as always, the transferred money was there instantly.

I could see these two transactions, one was money that had come out on the 18/12/06 which took the account into and £3.65 passed our overdraft and the other was on the 18/12/06 which was the money going in from our second account and next to that was the account balance for the 18/12/06 which was now in the green again and as i said, this was at around 10:00pm so it was well before midnight.

Today i received a letter from Lloyds TSB saying we are being charged a £30 overdraft excess fee.

I logged into our online bank and went through the statements only to find that the dates had been changed!!

It sown the transaction that took us £3.65 passed our overdraft limit on the 18/12/06, but the money transfer that cleared the overdraft was now dated the 19/12/06.

Has Lloyds TSB manipulated the dates so they can charge a £30 overdraft excess fee, or is this an honest mistake?

I think its a [problem] myself.

I remember as clear as day clearing that overdraft and my wife and i remember almost every word of a conversation we had about it that night on the 18/12/06, saying how if i didn't check the bank AGAIN that night, we would have had to pay another £30 fee.

Around a week ago the dates on the online statement were messed up, as it shown money that had gone out and money that had been paid into our account one day into the future. The dates for these transactions were for the next day which was not here yet!

I think this is when the date of the transaction on the 18/12/06 was changed to the next day, pushing everything forward by one day.

I don't know what i can do about it, but i don't intent to let it go.

Not a happy Lloyds TSB customer.

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I know that after 6:30pm with natwest are treated as following day so online banking does have a cut off point for same day transfers.

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But money is being taken out and being paid in at all times.

My mortgage money was taken out on Sunday a few months ago.

 

IMO, they should only charge an overdraft excess fee if 24 hours has passed. I mean if they are going to treat after 5pm or 6pm as the next day, then they could be charging people £30 for lending a couple of quid for a few minutes.

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The Morgage money would have shown on the Saturday, as going out on the Monday, I think ATM transactions are the main ones that will show over the weekend. I agree with you on your other point entirely.

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You transferred money from one account to the other on 18th December.

The account receiving the credit had its date changed to 19th.

What happened on the account from which you took the money? Does it still read 18th?

 

Elsinore

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No, thats changed also to the 19th. Its just unbelievable!

 

You know when you want to be so sure that what you are seeing is correct that you ask someone to witness what you are seeing? Well after i transferred the money into the account to clear the overdraft i was asking my wife who was stood behind me if she could see as i could that the date of going passed the overdraft and the date of clearing the overdraft were the same date. They were the same and we were both very relieved to see those dates were the same as we knew that would mean we would not be charged the £30 fee.

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Have u tried ringing & asking for them to refund te charges? If they haven't refunded some before they may well do .. espesh if u lay it on thick about the amount in question & the time it was overdrawn etc.

 

If they won't refund then get a claim slapped in ... if u haven't already that is ... this sort of thing does STINK tho I agree :mad:

links to my current claims ...

My claim - Yorkshire Bank Visa

chezt V RBS Mastercard

Chezt v RBS Joint Account

chezt v Abbey Credit Card

 

Settled ...

chezt V Duet Card/Creation Finance

chezt v's Studio Cards

chezt v's Littlewoods Catalogue

 

Next ...

Abbey Joint a/c & Single a/c

Barclaycard (Mine & Hubby's)

Anyone else I can think of ...! :rolleyes:

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That's a shame, you can see what I was driving at NO_O. Would have made it easier.

 

However, I do think you should start out by complaining to your branch about both charges. If you haven't made a habit of incurring charges (at least recently) there's a sporting chance the bank will refund them.

 

Are you in the process of reclaiming previous charges from them?

 

Elsinore

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I have had dates change on me by Lloyds , not for charges though. Transfered money from one account to another ( actually it was around 10pm as well ) and checked both accounts ,both accounts dated same day . Suddenly the next day the dates have changed . I have also noticed S/O DD etc go out sometime around 10.30pm the day before they should , sometimes,then the next day the date changes . I queried it and I was told this is impossible it would not leave my account before midnight .

Now I print the statements off just incase :rolleyes:

When you want to fool the world, tell the truth. :D

Advice & opinions of Janet-M are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any

doubts.

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Elsinore, yes i see what you mean. The first thing i did when i noticed the date of the transfer that cleared the overdraft had changed was click on the account that i transferred the money from hoping i could get my proof from there, but that had also changed.

 

What a [problem] they have going! I thought they charge £30 per day, not £30 for a few hours or even minutes.

I can't get near a computer between lunch time and well after 5:30pm, so this could happen again and again. All my wife and i can do to reduce the risk is to stop using the card to pay for things and to use cash.

 

I made an appointment with the bank manager for next week, but even if he waves the charge, it still stinks and other people will still be getting ripped off.

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Add me to the list of people that have had this happen. I've even had it where money was paid in on the same day, during office hours and they still charged for it. Lloyds are [edit - potentially libelous], there is no limit to what they will do to you given half a chance.

Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB

 

Mindzai's Account - Partial settlement offer rejected

Joint Account - Partial settlement offer rejected

_________________________

Spreadsheet for compound contractual interest and statutory (s69) interest:

Download v1.9 [Tested with Excel 97-2007 and OpenOffice 2]

PLEASE NOTE: You should fully research contractual interest before you use that functionality of this spreadsheet. If in any doubt please use it to calculate 8% interest under s69 County Courts Act 1984.

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Guest ian cognito

It's not only Lloyds, A&L do this as well, I deliberately carried out a number of credits/debits over a five day period around payday when all my bills go out, each day after close of business I printed a pdf of the statements, some transactions actually changed date more than once! every single debit went to the benfit of the bank and resulted in an additional £125 in charges, not surprisingly they paid them all back before closing my account.

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I suggest if you think this is going to happen then to print a statement or take a screen shot ( ?) then they can't argue with you saying it never happened

When you want to fool the world, tell the truth. :D

Advice & opinions of Janet-M are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any

doubts.

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The charge stinks - even though the transaction was after close-of-play, it is taking the p*ss. When I went through my statements (HSBC) I found a couple of charges for unpaid items and card misuse that were automatically reversed when funds were paid in later in the day or the following day. That said, both ends of the transactions being after COP would suggest that recording them for the next business day makes sense.

HSBCLloyds TSBcontractual interestNew Tax Creditscoming for you?NTL/Virgin Media

 

Never give in ... Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. Churchill, 1941

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I think any money transfer from one account to another is instant anyway. I'm sure if it was 10:00pm and i had no money in my main account and i then went online and transferred £100 from my other account into the main account, i could then go to the cash point and draw out that £100 without waiting until the next day.

 

Like i said though, the date of the transfer and clearing the overdraft was the same date as i went past my overdraft limit by £3.65. They changed the date of the transfer and that to me is very fishy.

 

Also, this is something i copied and pasted from the Lloyds TSB online help centre:

We will charge you an Overdraft Excess Fee when you go overdrawn by £10 or more above any agreed overdraft, or by £10 or more without any agreed limit. We will charge this fee again on each day we make a payment for you that increases your unauthorised overdraft by £10 or more. A maximum of 3 Overdraft Excess Fees will be applied in any one monthly charging period.

So why are they charging me £30 for going £3.65 above my agreed overdraft?

 

Anyway, if my bank manager says i have to pay the fee, i will tell him i am closing my account with them, as i see what they have done as fraud and i will take it to court if i have to.

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Intra-bank transfers done during business hours are instant, not sure about after COP. If it was held back, it will have cleared instantly when it happened.

HSBCLloyds TSBcontractual interestNew Tax Creditscoming for you?NTL/Virgin Media

 

Never give in ... Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. Churchill, 1941

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Just checked my Lloyds account now ,14th Jan 3.55pm and low and behold

 

15Jan07 DD space.gif NATIONWIDE

but they will swear they don't take money until the day it's due :rolleyes:

When you want to fool the world, tell the truth. :D

Advice & opinions of Janet-M are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any

doubts.

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Get a screen-print, showing the transaction date in one window, and this in another, and do it now.

 

Check it against the phone, cash machine (with receipt), etc. to see if its reflected there.

HSBCLloyds TSBcontractual interestNew Tax Creditscoming for you?NTL/Virgin Media

 

Never give in ... Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. Churchill, 1941

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I phoned the Lloyds TSB 24 hour help line and explained my situation with the clearing the overdraft excess date changing to a day later.

The woman on the phone told me it is impossible for them to change the dates and this would not of happened.

 

The fact is though that the dates DID change:-x

 

Also, i read out what it says on the Lloyds TSB website about how you will be charged an overdraft excess fee if you go £10 or more over your agreed overdraft limit and asked her why i'm being charged the £30 fee for going just £3.65 over my overdraft limit regardless of them changing dates.

She said they changed it back in November so you will be charged the £30 fee even if you go a penny over your agreed overdraft limit.

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Also, i read out what it says on the Lloyds TSB website about how you will be charged an overdraft excess fee if you go £10 or more over your agreed overdraft limit and asked her why i'm being charged the £30 fee for going just £3.65 over my overdraft limit regardless of them changing dates.

She said they changed it back in November so you will be charged the £30 fee even if you go a penny over your agreed overdraft limit.

 

did she care to explain why their website was out of date then & publishing incorrect facts?

links to my current claims ...

My claim - Yorkshire Bank Visa

chezt V RBS Mastercard

Chezt v RBS Joint Account

chezt v Abbey Credit Card

 

Settled ...

chezt V Duet Card/Creation Finance

chezt v's Studio Cards

chezt v's Littlewoods Catalogue

 

Next ...

Abbey Joint a/c & Single a/c

Barclaycard (Mine & Hubby's)

Anyone else I can think of ...! :rolleyes:

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No, but i intend to ask the bank manager when i see him.

 

Print the details off the website NOW while it's still there (try & get the date to print off too) & make sure u write all your queries etc down .... Soz if uv done this already just wanna make sure ur covered for when u go in all guns blazing! :)

links to my current claims ...

My claim - Yorkshire Bank Visa

chezt V RBS Mastercard

Chezt v RBS Joint Account

chezt v Abbey Credit Card

 

Settled ...

chezt V Duet Card/Creation Finance

chezt v's Studio Cards

chezt v's Littlewoods Catalogue

 

Next ...

Abbey Joint a/c & Single a/c

Barclaycard (Mine & Hubby's)

Anyone else I can think of ...! :rolleyes:

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