Debt written off due to Carers Allowance?

[davey77]

Documents received from MINT along with a leaflet 'your copy of the general conditions':

 

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t42/davey77_2007/Application-mint.jpg

 

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t42/davey77_2007/CCA-mint2.jpg

 

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t42/davey77_2007/CCA-mint1.jpg

[davey77]

hi! MBNA have provided nothing towards the CCA or acknowleged my request to date.

So an application form copy is not a Fully Executed CCA then.. hmmm I shall just wait and then issue a default. How is that done do you know?

 

Thanks,

David

[davey77]

Reply from Capital One:

 

Thank you for your letter. I am sorry to hear of your continued financial difficulty.

 

Unfortunately we are unable to consider writing the debt off at this time. We therefore need you to complete an up to date financial statement. (I sent them one only 2 months ago and since then they have had a bank statement copy and benefit entitlement letter copy)

 

Please cut all Capital One card(s) with with above account number, in two for security reasons (I did that 6 months ago and sent it to them.)

 

In other words they are giving me the run around!! No acknowledgement of the CCA.

[Cornucopia]

hi! MBNA have provided nothing towards the CCA or acknowleged my request to date.

So an application form copy is not a Fully Executed CCA then.. hmmm I shall just wait and then issue a default. How is that done do you know?

 

Thanks,

David

 

Leave MBNA for now and wait until they comply....or not.

 

The HFC documents appears to be just an application form to me and this cannot be a true copy of the executed agreement. As I said, wait until the 12+30 is up and then we'll sort out the default letter. I take it you've kept a note of your dates?!!!

 

It appears that the Mint one is rather more detailed. How old is the account? I did notice that the T&C's look current. They have to be from when you actually signed the agreement. You might want to post that one on the CCA Mark II thread and let Pam have a look at it.

[davey77]

yes no worries. kept a note of the dates. Not quite there yet for the 12+30. Another week/10days.

 

Mint application was signed 14th May 2004.

[davey77]

Reply from Capital One CCA:

 

Again it's along the lines of the others. A form with the heading "ultra short application form". With credit agreement section at the bottom of the form, signed by me, that in part states "... if my application is accepted..etc". Also some statements from the past 4 years.

 

Think i will ring national debtline later and ask them about CCA's.

[Cornucopia]

Reply from Capital One CCA:

 

Again it's along the lines of the others. A form with the heading "ultra short application form". With credit agreement section at the bottom of the form, signed by me, that in part states "... if my application is accepted..etc". Also some statements from the past 4 years.

 

Think i will ring national debtline later and ask them about CCA's.

 

Davey, it seems that the agencies are not too au-fait on CCA's, at least from what I have read.

 

Could I suggest you PM Sequenci and ask him to help, he is a debt counsellor and is very knowledgable. I am sure he won't mind, tell him that I sent you!!! He may sigh loudly!!

 

Suggest you do as before the scan on the application form (which it obviously is) and put it on the CCAII thread.

 

I am sorry I haven't been around much lately but have a lot on at the moment, will try and look more closely at your stuff at the weekend!

 

Keep smiling!

[davey77]

My CCA reply from Capital One. (Along with some statements.)

 

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t42/davey77_2007/CapitalOneCCAApplication.jpg

[Cornucopia]

My CCA reply from Capital One. (Along with some statements.)

 

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t42/davey77_2007/CapitalOneCCAApplication.jpg

 

That, to me, looks reconstructed! That looks like an application with T&C's stuck on the bottom. What do you think? Post it on the other thread and say that I think it is reconstructed and see what they say.

[davey77]

Well, i think peterbard is getting peeved on being asked about this subject so I am going to, for now, take is as red that an application form in response to a CCA request is a breach of that request.

 

This will be my letter to all those that are sending me application forms that I will be getting in the post tomorrow:

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am in receipt of your correspondence today in reply to my request for the Credit Card Agreement for the above account.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 [sections 77−79].

 

However, the document that you have provided is clearing marked application form and therefore pre-contractual and not compliant to my request for the CCA under the terms of the above act. It is also a breach of the Act and the Regulations to send the application form rather that a true copy of the agreement.

 

I therefore require that you provide me with a copy of the correct document or your written acknowledgement that you are unable to do so.

 

Yours sincerely, me

[davey77]

ok... just got off the phone with National Debtline. She said very quickly that absolutely not, an application form is NOT the proper document to be given in reply to a CCA! A 'true agreement' and nothing less will do.

[davey77]

From HFC in reply to my letter informing them that an application form was not complian to a CCA.

 

Dear Mr x,

 

Thank you for your recent letter, the contents of which have been noted.

 

I confirm that the copy of the legal aggreement issued to you in your recent Consumer Credit act request, is, and has been confirmed by the Director of Card Operations, that this is a copy of your agreement on the above acount.

 

It is also confirmed that it is a Credit Agreement as stated in the sentences above your signature on the agreement.

 

I trust this clarifies the situation etc..

 

The sentence above my signature on the 'priority application for the RSPCA Matercard' that they are refering to states:

 

This is a Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Sign it only if you want to be legally bound by it's terms.

[davey77]

By the way the time limit of 12+30 (42) for HFC isn't reached until about the 1st June.

[humbleman]

From HFC in reply to my letter informing them that an application form was not complian to a CCA.

 

Dear Mr x,

 

Thank you for your recent letter, the contents of which have been noted.

 

I confirm that the copy of the legal aggreement issued to you in your recent Consumer Credit act request, is, and has been confirmed by the Director of Card Operations,ha ha ha yeah - but the Queen said that an application cannot be an agreement if it doesn't contain all the prescribed terms in the prescribed manner that this is a copy of your agreement on the above acount.

 

It is also confirmed that it is a Credit Agreement as stated in the sentences above your signature on the agreement.

 

I trust this clarifies the situation etc..

 

The sentence above my signature on the 'priority application for the RSPCA Matercard' that they are refering to states:

 

This is a Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Sign it only if you want to be legally bound by it's terms.

 

This is a new one and very original, has been confirmed by the Director of Card Operations

[davey77]

Does seem like they are trying a little too hard to persuade me i am in the wrong doesn't it humbleman!

[davey77]

I have just been looking breifly at dates for sending off some of the CCA's and it looks like time is up. (12+30). I have forgotten weekend though - I take it it is Mon-Fri that makes up the total of 42?

Even so, nearly there. So what's the next step. How do i get to take this to court to force them to comply with the CCA? (Or not.) I have had a look around here but this site is so big now i get lost!

[humbleman]

I have just been looking breifly at dates for sending off some of the CCA's and it looks like time is up. (12+30). I have forgotten weekend though - I take it it is Mon-Fri that makes up the total of 42?

Even so, nearly there. So what's the next step. How do i get to take this to court to force them to comply with the CCA? (Or not.) I have had a look around here but this site is so big now i get lost!

 

This is what peter bard on the big thread posted

 

Please also note that Ian McCartney the minister in charge of DTI has confirmed that It is also a breach of the Act and the Regulations to send the application form rather that a “true copy” of the Agreement.

[davey77]

yes thanks very much humbleman. Makes me mad to think the creditors are trying to make out to debtors that they are incorrect or misunderstanding the law and that creditors have fulfilled their legal obligations.

 

They are your best friend when you are paying the bills and spending money but when things get rough for you in your life they turn on you like a rabid dog!

It's time to bite back i say!!

[ladybird17]

davey - hi. CCA requests....12 working days (+1 or 2 for postage) + one calendar month

[davey77]

hi there - thanks for that Ladybird!

 

a pointless letter from capital one this morning after i wrote to tell them an application form isn't good enough:

 

Thank you for contacting us for a copy of your credit agreement and statements.

 

These have been sent to you separately and you should receive them shortly. As we don't charge for this service we've added your £1.00 payment to your account.

 

If we can help further, please call...*****

 

ugh!

[hellhasnofury]

Hello,

 

Found your thread and read with great interest.

 

Many thanks:D

[davey77]

What i plan to send off to all that are over the time limit for the CCA:

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

I write to inform you that Cahoot have now exceeded the statutory time limit in regard to the CCA request by myself which was sent by recorded delivery then received and signed for by 'whoever' on behalf of Cahoot on the 'date'.

 

You are now breach of your legal duties under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s77-79) thereby committing an offence and are in Default.

 

I must ask that the CCA request be complied with in full and that the true executed agreement for the above account be sent to the above address within 10 days of the date of this letter otherwise I will have no other recourse but to inform Trading Standards, The Information Commissioner's Office and Office of Fair Trading of this breach.

 

As Cahoot are in Default due to this breach I must also ask that any Defaults currently on my file with the credit reference agencies be removed also within the allotted 10 days.

 

If you are unable to fully comply then i must ask that you confirm this to me in writing also within 10 days of receipt of this letter.

 

 

 

Yours sincerely, me

[davey77]

And also this to HFC as they replied to state that the Director of Card Operations states that an application is enough for me:

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your letter dated 2nd May 2007.

 

In regard to the application form you recently sent me in reply to my CCA request and your assertion by your Director of Card Operations that the document you sent me marked ‘application form’ is all that is required to be supplied to me under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, I find that your Director of Card Operations is under some misunderstanding as to what is required by law regarding the supply of such information and to be fully compliant therein.

 

I require a properly executed agreement and not a pre contractual application form as clearly laid out in the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

To clarify accordingly:

 

RT Hon Ian McCartney MP

Minister for Trade Investment and Foreign Affairs

In relation to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Credit Card Agreements): “It is also a breach of the Act and the Regulations to send the application form rather than a true copy of the agreement.”

 

Therefore you are now breach of your legal duties under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s77-79) thereby committing an offence and are in Default and may i also remind you that while the account is in dispute that the alleged debt is unenforceable.

 

I must ask that the CCA request be complied with in full and that a true copy of the properly executed agreement for the above account be supplied to myself at the above address within 10 days of the date of this letter otherwise I will have no other recourse but to inform Trading Standards, The Information Commissioner's Office and Office of Fair Trading of this breach.

 

As HFC Bank are in Default due to this breach I must also ask that any Defaults currently on my file with the credit reference agencies be removed.

 

If you are unable to fully comply then I must ask that you confirm this to me in writing also within 10 days of receipt of this letter.

 

Yours sincerely, Me

[davey77]

All quiet on the western front... apart from this:

 

MBNA have sold the debt to Link Financial-Lin. Of course, MBNA are in default of the CCA but they sold the debt anyway.

[ladybird17]

Davey, that may - and I only say MAY be better for you - do you know when they sold it to Link? Because up until very recently, the original documents appear to have been lost/destroyed when passed on to Link.