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DCA don't have to tell you show you a signed deed of assignment, which would show how much they paid for the debt, under a CCA request, but would need to show this to the court if it went to court. They do have to send you a copy of the original agreement between you and the bank.

 

It says in all agreements that the bank reserves the right to supply details to outside agencies for the enforcement of debts, fraud prevention and this is how the debt is sold on legally.

 

However, it is debateable what the law says when once DCA then sells it to another as you have not really signed with them. The only legal way is to send it back to the bank and they then sell to another agency, under the same original agreement.

 

Another issue raised is one of Data Protection, as a DCA would need your express permission to sell or pass it on as they will also be passing on your personal details. For example, DCA 1 buys the debt and DCA 2 administers it, but who has given DCA 1 permission to send your details to DCA 2? The bank can keep on doing this because it is covered under the original agreement.

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Then it can be argued that the banks have signed us up into a unfair contract. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Haha 1

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Just a quick one. Banks are currently writing these debts off against their profits and then selling them on to debt collection agencies. this was confirmed in the recent barclays annual profits statement. They wrote of 2 billin quids worth of debts but at the same time there are dcas who have bought these debts off barclays and others . Is this illegal or something?


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Baillifchaser,

 

You have hit somethiong there matey if someone could prove this then that is definately illegal because it is tax fraud.

 

The Banks when they write debts off, then claim this against their tax profits, and this is taken off their tax Bill as a disembursable allowance.

 

If they then sell these on they are committing tax fraud, because they have allready made the claim for this from the Tax Man.

 

 

Way to go you have got something there, that will start some heads thinking.

 

Sparkie1723

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Guest The Terminator
Then it can be argued that the banks have signed us up into a unfair contract. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

All CC agreements are unfair you only have to read the T&C's and they know they are unfair as they only benifit the provider.But you also have to look at the wider picture especally the fraud part.Signing an unfair contract when the provider knows that the terms are unfair would constitute fraud in the first place then add the deception side to it and you've got all the ingridents.That's why I laugh when I get a call and the muppet on the other end mentions T&C the point being they don't understand themselves.So if a bank or ccp take you to court defend it because they know they haven't got a hope in hell's chance of winning.

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The Banks when they write debts off, then claim this against their tax profits, and this is taken off their tax Bill as a disembursable allowance.

 

This is true.

 

If a debt is written off, it cannot be sold.

 

I think they write off some debts and sell others, so what you are reading is about the debts they have written off, not the ones they sold to a DCA.

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Interesting article appeared on the BBC website this afternoon,

 

BBC NEWS | Business | Bank penalty fee complaints soar

 

......and a well known online credit industry magazine has been expressing 'concerns' over the number of people prepared to question the legality of bank charges and fees. Apparently the publicity has caused more and more consumers to ask questions, and the knock on effect to the collections sector could be enormous. Exactly what that means could be open to interpretation.....

 

Credit Today online

 

I think Tifo's statement about not sellling written off debts is correct, this doesn't (or shouldn't) happen because of the tax implications.

 

However, once you make a clear distinction between agents acting for a client, (i.e Collections agents) and those who take over the debt completely (i.e Purchase agents) the real questions begin to arise.

 

Collection agents are the ones who will take you to court for a CCJ. Purchase agents are the one's who shout and scream, but eventually back down before court. Working on the same theory as the Bank process....are purchasers doing something a little bit dodgy?? We know they 'buy' old debts for peanuts, so do they actually ever risk court action?? Do you know anyone at all who has been taken to court by a purchaser, rather than a collection agent??

 

"Divide, and rule" must be their policy, but the consumer is catching on, by sharing their knowledge.

 

That's tired out my brain cell for another day or two...


HOIST BY THEIR OWN PETARD.

 

Blimey it works....:-)

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This is true.

 

If a debt is written off, it cannot be sold.

 

I think they write off some debts and sell others, so what you are reading is about the debts they have written off, not the ones they sold to a DCA.

 

I stand to be corrected. The accountant for the company that I work for writes off old debts for tax purposes after 6 years. Our firm offsets this from the inland revenue. So surely if they get tax releif on this then NO ONE else should benefit.


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Do you know anyone at all who has been taken to court by a purchaser, rather than a collection agent??

 

I have 2 CCJ's from 'purchasers' and 1 from a 'collector'.

 

I assume they are the purchaser because they were listed as the claimant and they have entered defaults in their own name.

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Guest The Terminator
Interesting article appeared on the BBC website this afternoon,

 

 

 

 

Collection agents are the ones who will take you to court for a CCJ. Purchase agents are the one's who shout and scream, but eventually back down before court. Working on the same theory as the Bank process....are purchasers doing something a little bit dodgy?? We know they 'buy' old debts for peanuts, so do they actually ever risk court action?? Do you know anyone at all who has been taken to court by a purchaser, rather than a collection agent??

 

"Divide, and rule" must be their policy, but the consumer is catching on, by sharing their knowledge.

 

That's tired out my brain cell for another day or two...

 

Although the DCA's may take you court to for a CCJ this is where it get's a little bit meaty.They would have to have a copy of the originally executed agreement and we all know that they go back to the original creditor for that so why is it so hard for them to provide a copy when requested.What about defending a CCJ do the DCA's really think we are so stupid that we are not going to put in a defence or get their claim struck out.

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I have 2 CCJ's from 'purchasers' and 1 from a 'collector'.

 

I assume they are the purchaser because they were listed as the claimant and they have entered defaults in their own name.

 

Lowells is a good one to take for example. In fact I don't know much about the others but I guess they're all quite similar.

 

Lowell employees on Blagger and elsewhere confirm Lowell Portfolio purchase delinquent debts, normally more than four years old. It's also clear Lowell Portfolio are the collection agent acting on their behalf. Hamptons Legal add a bit of legal 'ooomph' when in fact it is just a trading name of the whole caboodle.... 'Lowell Group'. No-one on any other forum I visit is yet to have successful action taken against them by Lowell. They shout, scream, swear, threaten blue murder and then......nothing. Of course, that's not to say it doesn't happen.

 

OK. The example is if (very big if) Lowell Financial/Hamptons Legal actually took you to court over a 500 quid debt, what is there to stop you contesting the action on the grounds the original credit has been settled by underwriters and tax relief, and Lowell Group paid less than 50 quid for it. How can they produce evidence to justify the amount they are claiming, without it being some kind of huge tax fiddle?? At no point have you ever owed Lowell Group 500quid, so why should it be paid to them and not HMRC, or do Lowell refund HMRC or the OC underwriters on successful action?? I think not. It wouldn't be worthwhile getting into the business in the first place.

 

There's a mint to be made simply by the fact people can be frightened into paying up if you mention the word "Court". The banks won't defend their charges,.... are debt purchasers yet to be tested.??

 

Anyone want to make a quick fortune in my new Debt Purchase company??. License from OFT is less than 500, then we just need a few students to make the calls (no offence to students;) ) while we sit and count the cash........


HOIST BY THEIR OWN PETARD.

 

Blimey it works....:-)

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I havent got a problem in starting my own debt cvollection company off and chasing the banks for the money. The only thing is i would need to be financed. ie if you could provide me with a letter confirming that you have transferred the benfit of the amount to me and also stick £50 towards admin fees etc i do not see why i cannot chase this Fock faces around. !!!!


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I will be taking action against Lowell soon for defaulting me 4 times! Just building the case against them at the moment (OFT, ICO, TS etc).

 

2 times by Lowell Portfolio and 2 times by Lowell Financial.

 

1 time by Barclays.

 

All for the 1 account i had with Barclays and for £200.

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I will be taking action against Lowell soon for defaulting me 4 times! Just building the case against them at the moment (OFT, ICO, TS etc).

 

2 times by Lowell Portfolio and 2 times by Lowell Financial.

 

1 time by Barclays.

 

All for the 1 account i had with Barclays and for £200.

 

In all the 'research' I've done over the last few months, it has been said (Ken Maynard CEO Cabot) that DCA's buy debts (in bulk) on an online auction. Prior to the actual 'sale' there would have been prelim bids. He (Ken) states that there can be up to 25 compnaies in competition. However he went on to say that the sellers (banks etc) tend to sell them to the better known DCA's. However, very recently HSBC sold a load of defaulted portfolio's (debts) to FV-1, Inc.

If you read all this info carefully (and understand it), does it all seem 'kosher' to you?? Doesn't to me for sure, but how could one go about getting this 'deal' investigated?? FV-1 are an American company, Cabot are a japanese company, Aktiv Kaptial are Norweigan....what does that tell you?

 

One last point that hasn't been mentioned on this thread...If one could find out how much bank sold a debt for, could one then not challenge the bank and demand why the same offer of sale wasn't given to the debtor before the sale...For EG ... HSBC..Dear Sir, we're about to sell your £5000 debt for £500 and mark the debt as satisfied on our accounts..before we do that, would you like to pay the £500 and clear the debt ? ...Why aren't debtors allowed to be given the same offer by the banks just before they sell it? That would be an interesting argument put before a judge...The way the banks are seen by all judges at the moment, I bet you could win that argument hands down!


Just hate every DCA out there

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That is exactly what should happen. I am prepared to go all the way but dcs dont want to know me.


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That is exactly what should happen. I am prepared to go all the way but dcs dont want to know me.

 

Likewise...but I've still got a few chances to get one to court ;)


Just hate every DCA out there

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I could do it the other way around could i not issue against lowell finance on the same understanding ?


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Just wandering is there anybody out there willing to sell me a debt of £200 ?


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Don't mean to hijack but, quick question on DMPs. What is the position of those debts? Can I claim back unfair charges and get the default removed even though the charges won't clear the whole debt? I am hoping to pursue the credit cards once my bank claim is finished. With my bank, the charges are greater than the O/D I was defaulted on. Not the case with the cards.


:lol:

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Yes you need to send a sar off with a cheque for a tenner.


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Right nobody get hot handed with me just a question !!!!

If you have a paying in slip from your dc can you send the cca request without the cheque and pay it directly in to their account with the paying in slip and then watch the fun ? They will deny reciving the cheque but it would not look good when you produce a copy of your cheque which has been cashed by them ?


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This may be a couple of months late but it's still an interesting read.

 

SchNEWS 570 - Credit, Debt, Banks, Buy Nothing Day, G20, Melbourne, Hellfire, Diamond

 

Make sure you try "Globalrichlist" in the "and finally...." section.


HOIST BY THEIR OWN PETARD.

 

Blimey it works....:-)

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So does anybody have any ideas ?


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This is true.

 

If a debt is written off, it cannot be sold.

 

I think they write off some debts and sell others, so what you are reading is about the debts they have written off, not the ones they sold to a DCA.

 

Sorry to jump in, but my OH has an old debt with Halifax and has a statement from them which says "WRITE OFF" and then the full amount of the debt, taking the account to £0, then closing the account. Does this mean they couldn't (or shouldn't) have sold it on?

 

This was may last year and we've not been contacted by anyone, the default is marked as Settled and no new defaults registered.

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Sorry to jump in, but my OH has an old debt with Halifax and has a statement from them which says "WRITE OFF" and then the full amount of the debt, taking the account to £0, then closing the account. Does this mean they couldn't (or shouldn't) have sold it on?

 

This was may last year and we've not been contacted by anyone, the default is marked as Settled and no new defaults registered.

 

 

That means that the halifax hav e written it off and have not sold it on. If they do then theymust inform you.


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