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    • Well done on your victory!  👏   You must have a magic touch, it's extremely rare that the PPCs accept an appeal.
    • Court hearing today. WON on all counts of claim. The win though is not the interesting bit, but the ‘why’ is really useful. We were allocated 90 minutes but it took two hours by telephone . The defense were represented but I failed to note whether by a solicitor, barrister or other advocate.   As soon as the judge finished the introductions and before he had time to pass the time over to me to explain my case, the defense interrupted and asked the claim be struck out. He then spent the next 40 minutes discussing with the judge that I had failed to properly serve my bundle upon which I intended to rely. The judge asked me to explain and I said I had served the bundle to them and the court 3 days before the deadline, by signed for post with a tracking number to the address named in the summons being the Royal Mail Head Office in London. I said it was a bit rich that they were making this request when they had failed to serve me and the court with their bundle within the deadline and that I had only just received it. They quoted a certain principle of law (which I failed to write down) which explained that service of documents must be made to the address which either party may request service to be made. They claimed that six months earlier when they lodged their defense to my summons, the covering letter had been sent from their Sheffield office and it constituted the address for future service of documents. I of course had no idea of such a requirement and said that a simple letter heading on a piece of correspondence was not the same as a formal sentence in a letter requesting such future service. It gave the judge some concern but he decided to park the issue and allow the hearing to continue.   I was able to explain my case for the £50 compensation for the lost parcel using the evidence from the defense bundle referencing the Overseas Post Scheme. It was all straight forward. I explained the facts and let them speak for themselves. I then moved on to the delayed Special Delivery items. This is where the fun began because I had to argue against their terms and conditions. I used the defense bundle referencing the UK Post Scheme. I quoted from various clauses which explained the rules relating to claims. That ALL delay claims must be made within 3 months, then that Special Delivery was actually 14 days so not 3 months after all, then another clause which confirmed the deadline was 3 months for all delay claims. I quoted further that these were “common terms” and that some services (Special Delivery was one) had additional terms which were called “specific terms”. Another clause stated that where a conflict arises between common and specific terms, then specific terms took priority. So I turned to the Special Delivery section to quote the specific terms as these would have priority. There was only one term that referenced claims. It simply said If we do not succeed in attempting to deliver by this time (being the next day) we will refund your postage. I used this single phrase to take priority over the 3 months  or 14 day deadline mentioned in the common terms. I discussed how the various clauses conflicted with themselves as if the clauses themselves did not know what the deadlines were and how ambiguous and confusing it was.   The time was then past to the defense and he started to argue there was no contract nor liability in tort (a substantial portion of their written defense document and bundle discussed this argument). It made me smile because I was ready for that. The judge though was ahead of the game and (especially because 40 minutes had been wasted at the beginning) he did not want to hear of it. After about one minute, he stopped the defense by saying exactly what I was preparing to say. Simply that I was not suing under contract or tort but under the conditions of the various postal schemes for which they were liable. He asked the defense to answer my claims. The defense then prevaricated trying to argue the clause that distinctly mentioned the 14 day time limit within which to make a claim for delay (which of course it did) ( as an aside, most people might accept that deadline and not bother to pursue a claim). He had nothing to add about the lost parcel.   Time had run out, we had no questioning and the judge said he was summing up. He was quite happy I had served my documents sufficiently well and took the view that the defense had fallen foul of the court order so he was cancelling out the question about valid service. He had no difficulty in accepting the claim that the lost parcel was valid and awarded me the £50 compensation. He then spoke at longer length about the delay claims and the conflict in the clauses. (at this point I had no idea which way this bit would go). Then, he spoke of how a business such as Royal Mail should not be accepting clauses in their contracts which were clearly inconsistant. (that’s when I started to relax), (and then the best takeaway of the hearing), He said that common law provides in the event of a standard contract if there is any ambiguity, the interpretation should be judged against the person drafting the contract. He called it Contra Proferendem. (I had no idea of that concept but had effectively explained it anyway). I was awarded the whole claim plus costs. The defense asked for permission to appeal which was refused.    Remember the phrase “Contra Proferendem” . I shall be looking more into it. I am sure it will come in handy against any institution that have drafted contracts that cannot be individually negotiated. And will certainly be useful for a long while yet against Royal Mail et al.
    • The White House highlights the upcoming offer of free trips in the US by the ride-hailing firms. View the full article
    • Original loan was £5000 unsecured over 5 years, 28 payments remaining, he wanted to extend it back up to 5 year.........the bank offered him £6700 to clear his credit card and the bank loan, £135 per month from the original figure of £121    One debt of two years old and one debt of 15 months        
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    • Ebay Packlink and Hermes - destroyed item as it was "damaged". https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/430396-ebay-packlink-and-hermes-destroyed-item-as-it-was-damaged/&do=findComment&comment=5087347
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
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      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
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hi Glenn

 

received your message thanks, how do i get hold of the guy with the letter, can he post it to my thread or the business thread do you think? could you ask him please, or can he e-mail it:)

 

kindest regards

hels

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hi glenn

 

received message, as i,m sure yo have worked out by now my skills on these threads are limited so if you could be kind enough to let the chap have my thread so i will be able to talk to him without hassling you all the time that wuold be brill!!!!!

 

as always ;)

hels

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Hi Glenn

 

just to let you know i have received another letter from the court, it states the : Take notice that the direction hearing will take place on the 13 April, guess what its a friday!!!!, sorry what does a direction hearing mean again:o

 

kindest regards

hels

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directions hearings are to help you find the court, only joking.

 

Basically the judge will ask questions of both parties about their cases and then decide who the claim should be heard ie which track, order standard disclosure or stuff like that.

 

Glenn

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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hi Glenn

 

ha ha direction of the court, whos feeling witty tonight! what does standard disclosure mean, which track, whats that, small claims or fast track ?? for the info i have requested should the court just either decide the bank should give me what i have requested or quote some law that they have given me all they should ie bankstatments as against my request for advanced notification of charges.

 

hels;)

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hi Glenn

 

ha ha direction of the court, whos feeling witty tonight! what does standard disclosure mean the court can order both parties to reavel documents they hold which both helps and hinders their claim, which track, whats that, small claims or fast track correct ?? for the info i have requested should the court just either decide the bank should give me what i have requested or quote some law that they have given me all they should ie bankstatments as against my request for advanced notification of charges. its likley the court have seen similar claims before and expect the bank to cough up before the hearing. It may alos be that they havent seen such a case and want to find out whats going on. The fact that you have been told they hold your data is good enough reason for you to birng the claim so odnt worry.

 

hels;)

 

 

By the way im trying to sort out the letter issue for you.

 

Glenn

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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glenn

 

wots happened to your spelling??????? a touch of hels itus i believe.

 

Not sure i understand?

 

Glenn

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PS the edit facility is a wonderful thing.

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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Hels

 

Its easy for us - like Glen I have been pleasntly surprised how judges really try to put you at ease, they are not interested in clever solicitors playing with words, they are just ordinary folk trying their best to administer justice.

 

 

Z

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hi

Glenn and Zubo

 

thanks for all your advise and comment. i assure you if i am successful i shall do all i can to help anyone who is going down these roads. Every thing you guys write i print off so i can read and read, eventaully it has to in 'GO IN'.

 

thanks again Glenn for your efforts to get the letter, this would be VERY useful. ;)

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Hi Zubo

 

just to let you know :) i am at court to get my data not the charges, but hopefully that will soon follow.

 

hels

 

yes I know I had to keep re-reading to try to figure out what they are trying to achieve...

 

I'm like Tom Hanks in BIG? - your a child and someone tries to tell you that theyre planning to develop and market a Skyscraper which turns into a robot - 'I dont get it!! wheres the fun in that - now a bug which turns into a robot - cool!!!'

 

So ok I don't get it.

Why withhold your data?

Doncha just luv mysteries....

 

Zx

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hi Zuba

 

The story goes like this in brief, i,m in business, i get quarterly bank statements which list the charges charged by the bank for the previous quarter, some charges are perfectly lawful and reasonable, paying money in, getting change out, paying out cheques ect, but i too hae many charges for referral fee,s ect at various charges £15-£30 each, however i need what is called Notification of Charges [as described above] which they have sent over the years but i cannot find them so i request 2000-2006 well actually i have 2003-06, the banks have sent the ordinary bank statments which show the total amount but not the breakdown, so it would be impossible to reach an accurate figure to re claim unlawful charges, thus probably allowing my case to fail. The bank have said they do not hold what i have requested for more than three years thefore cannot provide me with it, i, on the the other hand have evidence to the contray.

 

does this brief help you understand?

 

hels:)

 

Doncha just hope i,m right;)

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hi Zuba

 

The story goes like this in brief, i,m in business, i get quarterly bank statements which list the charges charged by the bank for the previous quarter, some charges are perfectly lawful and reasonable, paying money in, getting change out, paying out cheques ect, but i too hae many charges for referral fee,s ect at various charges £15-£30 each, however i need what is called Notification of Charges [as described above] which they have sent over the years but i cannot find them so i request 2000-2006 well actually i have 2003-06, the banks have sent the ordinary bank statments which show the total amount but not the breakdown, so it would be impossible to reach an accurate figure to re claim unlawful charges, thus probably allowing my case to fail. The bank have said they do not hold what i have requested for more than three years thefore cannot provide me with it, i, on the the other hand have evidence to the contray.

 

does this brief help you understand?

 

hels:)

 

Doncha just hope i,m right;)

 

aha - it is a bug turning into a monster... now i get it.

 

one other option is to prepare your claim based upon 2003-2006 and estimated prorata on the missing data. I seem to recall that Banks have an obligation to retain business data for at least 10 years to be compliant with Government regulations related to Customs & Excise and also Money Laundering regulations. So might be useful to contact Department of Trade for those regs.

 

I know your right gal

 

Zx

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Estimated claims are fraught with problems and are unfortunately easily deafeted by the banks.

 

I dont think there is any legislation which requires them to hold personal data for any specific length of time, its an urbam myth and if it is business data they ar enot under any obligation to prpvide it under the DPA.

 

helen is after her data based on the fact it has her personal data on it.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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Estimated claims are fraught with problems and are unfortunately easily deafeted by the banks.

 

I dont think there is any legislation which requires them to hold personal data for any specific length of time, its an urbam myth and if it is business data they ar enot under any obligation to prpvide it under the DPA.

 

helen is after her data based on the fact it has her personal data on it.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

 

:ooh:o reading her explanation seems to indicate its business data - as I read your points - its the personal part of that business data??

Agreed that business data is not covered by the DPA - but I was referring to business data when I said that obligations for retention of financial information IS required by legislation for at least 10 years NOT personal data.

 

Z

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hi Glenn & Zubo

 

slightly worried having read both your last 'bits', its funny how the doupts start creeping in the nearer the court date, i will just check but i think its today the last day for Barclays to submit a defence, i guess i will be notified if they have. Just so i am really clear with my case, can i run it by you guys again. The account in question say this on the bank statements. Mr & Mr.xxxxxx [Our names]

Trading as XXXXXX

Buckingham Palace [Home address]

London

HGI QE2

 

Because it in in both our names home address and, makes a referrence to our business name, however just to clarify business transaction do take place in this account as does house morgage payments persaonl life insurance ect, but monies is put in this account from the business and business bill are paid out of this account. hopefully this makes me covered by the DPA right???

 

hels :)

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Hels

 

If you or anyone else indeed can be identifeid by reference to the information contaimed in your file its personal data.

 

HTH

 

PS ill sort out emailing those letters to you shortly ihave them in my work bag.

 

Glenn

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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Hi Glenn

 

ok thanks Glenn, must remember that! Yep those letters will be really really useful but remember, i have very basic skill on the computer, but perhas you could e-mail them and i can just print them off.

 

PS are the letter self explainitary as in will a lay person [me] be able to understand them or are they full of non-understandable jargan?

 

pps. today [21st] was the last day for the bank to submit thier defence, should i sit and wait for news or contact the court and quote my reference number?? so far i have not heard anything but i guess this is normal, is it? be on the look out if you have time just in case they have put in a defence cos then i will really need you guys.

 

forever grateful for services renderd.:)

hels

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ring the court tomorrow and see if they have received anything from the bank.

 

The letters are striaght forward i just have to scan them and email them over.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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