hells bells

[dar£n]

mm they told me they sent a letter on the friday, had nothing by the tues so called them back telling them i was adding costs for loss of earning due to having to book time off work,, paid it too lol

[kippy2]

lol. I have a court date at skipton for wednesday the 19th of april. How do you know who is doing the case.

 

Like I posted earler I spoke to somebody called Tom and he had all the figures and said a letter was getting sent out to me and that was wednesdy this week but still nothing in the post this morening. Sorry for asking on this thread but would you be worried now or not???

 

Thanks

 

you will be fine hells claim is slightly different re dpa. not charges. you will be settled. keep to your thread though hijacking here

[Glenn UK]

How long do banks have to keep details for? | Ask the experts | Guardian Unlimited Money

 

 

Although the link looks interesting, in truth it is next to useless without further information and is misleading.

 

The truth is that there is no stat retention period in the DPA and although there are retention periods in other acts they do not directly relate to the retention of data as defined in the DPA.

 

This does not mean that all is lost, only that the situation can be complex.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[dar£n]

Glenn, I do agree with you, but at least it is another avenue for soneone who is stuck to try, some might be lucky and achieve what they are trying to do.

 

All I am trying to do is boost their confidence and try to point them in a direction that may help,

my advice is only from what I have learned from being on here, just like the people who are asking the questions.

 

I am sorry that you feel my advice is always of no use to people.

[zubo]

Devastated for you Hels ... looks like the judge made their mind up before hand.

 

Hels I feel terribly for you...

 

Zoot, is there any recourse of complaint on the grounds that Hels evidence was not allowed to be presented and that the indication was that it was presented as a directions hearing?

 

I think this is dosgraceful, I personally would have lost my cool and had a tantrum and laid into the bias of the judge. I would even write to the ????? and complain about the judge's bias and ask for a review of her cases. Looking to remove her from her privelaged position: clearly she believes these institutions are to be unchallenged. A Letter to whoever is in charge of the home office too would not go amiss to put political pressure on these people and remind them that they must remain unbiased.

 

Z

[Glenn UK]

Actually, i'll change my comment slightly, its not necessarily misleading in its own right, it becomes so when posted in the context of reclaiming bank accounts from closed accounts.

 

The article refers to dormant accounts ie. those which have money in them but there has been no activity for some period.

 

One of the probllems with the net is that it allows all information to be posted and read by anyone. Subeseqeunt readers of a comment may not choose to check out the details behind the original post/quote and end up using something inappropriately which could cost them a lot of money. This of course is their own fault, however if we know there are flaws with info isnt it reasonable to point them out?

 

If you think my comments about your info are unfair or harsh, i appologise, they are merely meant ot point out that the bare info needs some interpretation and understanding.

 

Its not your advice is always of no use, but it sometimes needs a little tweaking, mine does too. Please dont take offence Im only trying to help too.

 

Glenn

[hels bells]

hi everyone

 

can i just say, i feel we are all extremely ****sed of that i have lost my case, everyone on my thread has given waht they feel to be helpful advise at the appropriate times and for that i will always be most grateful, you have all guided me through this case and without you all i would not hav had the knowledge or teh courage to go the whole way, win or loose,

 

i think we have had some stuffing knock out of our sails and we all thought beyong most doupts that i had a very strong case, i did have a very strong case, but no one could have prepered me for the judge from HELL, seriously her mind was made up before i walked in and when she saw me with black and pink scruffy hair [ even though i was smarty dressed] that just iced her cake. You all care enough to have contributed and you all care enough to feel bad for me, just look at my thread.

 

my fight does and will continue, and you guys will i know continue to guide me and i will as always listen, so please please don,t anyone mis-interprate any good intentions and welcome advise i know you all have to help me and each other .

 

one of the best moves i have ever made was to find the CAG for allsorts of reason, we are all in the same war and we will battle on together ;)

hels,

ps. the war may not have been won but the battle still continues. Heres to the next stage, stay with me.

[zubo]

hi everyone

 

can i just say, i feel we are all extremely ****sed of that i have lost my case, everyone on my thread has given waht they feel to be helpful advise at the appropriate times and for that i will always be most grateful, you have all guided me through this case and without you all i would not hav had the knowledge or teh courage to go the whole way, win or loose,

 

i think we have had some stuffing knock out of our sails and we all thought beyong most doupts that i had a very strong case, i did have a very strong case, but no one could have prepered me for the judge from HELL, seriously her mind was made up before i walked in and when she saw me with black and pink scruffy hair [ even though i was smarty dressed] that just iced her cake. You all care enough to have contributed and you all care enough to feel bad for me, just look at my thread.

 

my fight does and will continue, and you guys will i know continue to guide me and i will as always listen, so please please don,t anyone mis-interprate any good intentions and welcome advise i know you all have to help me and each other .

 

one of the best moves i have ever made was to find the CAG for allsorts of reason, we are all in the same war and we will battle on together ;)

hels,

ps. the war may not have been won but the battle still continues. Heres to the next stage, stay with me.

 

Thats my girl!!

 

dooh dee dooh de dooh de dooh, lets take a walk on the wild side....

 

I was trying to remember how that great classic went ...

 

pink and black are my fave colours... matches my silver and black....:D

 

wow

 

hang in there babe, more than one way of skinning the cat... and you are wrong.... you lost a minor battle - the war is there for the winning, lets go and run some skirmishes....

 

Z

[hels bells]

Hi Zubo

 

without a doupt the fight goes on, you just watch

 

hels

[Guest ChloeJane]

I said to hells I would post - hoping to make sense of things a little as I explained it to her and that she did not lose, it was an arguement that was not technically there. Note....... technically.

 

Hells had filed a part 8 claim for the non compliance of the Subject Access Request.

 

When hels did her subject access request, she asked the bank to provide 6 years worth of statements and the quarterly banks charge statements that were sent to her.

 

The Bank complied with the 6 years worth of statements.

 

They did not comply fully with the quarterly charge statements and only gave three years.

 

Filing for the other 3 years was Hells claim under part 8 of the Civil procedure rules. Part 8 is where there is no real issue of the law, it is down to whether the judge believes that it was or was not, can or cannot be complied with.

 

The judge I am sure noted that the Subject access request made by Hells was in fact completed in full as per her request as the bank in defence stated they could only supply 3 years of copies of the quarterly statements. While they had not by the judges judgement supplied these, they had fully complied with the act, providing the information in full within the 6 years statements already sent.

 

A technicality that perhaps the bank picked up on? As if they were to have complied, if indeed they could have, they would have given Hells no work at all!

 

It is now for Hells to go through the three years prior to the quarterly statements she has received and work out the charges for herself.

 

So she did not lose...it was a very complicated and technical area of law and her fight now will be to add up all those figures! Poor hells.

 

Then she will be ready to fight the case again! So not lost anything, just more work to get there...so keep believing and remember, that the law system is not easily understood but there is help out there when you ask!

 

Never lay down and die....up up and try! Keep believing everyone! If anything Hells just saved lots of people with what has happened..more learning!

 

She didn't lose...she learnt and has more determination to fight back with more knowledge....watch out for her thread...its going to be wicked when she is done.

 

Hugs to hells...x

[zubo]

I said to hells I would post - hoping to make sense of things a little as I explained it to her and that she did not lose, it was an arguement that was not technically there. Note....... technically.

 

Hells had filed a part 8 claim for the non compliance of the Subject Access Request.

 

When hels did her subject access request, she asked the bank to provide 6 years worth of statements and the quarterly banks charge statements that were sent to her.

 

The Bank complied with the 6 years worth of statements.

 

They did not comply fully with the quarterly charge statements and only gave three years.

 

Filing for the other 3 years was Hells claim under part 8 of the Civil procedure rules. Part 8 is where there is no real issue of the law, it is down to whether the judge believes that it was or was not, can or cannot be complied with.

 

The judge I am sure noted that the Subject access request made by Hells was in fact completed in full as per her request as the bank in defence stated they could only supply 3 years of copies of the quarterly statements. While they had not by the judges judgement supplied these, they had fully complied with the act, providing the information in full within the 6 years statements already sent.

 

A technicality that perhaps the bank picked up on? As if they were to have complied, if indeed they could have, they would have given Hells no work at all!

 

It is now for Hells to go through the three years prior to the quarterly statements she has received and work out the charges for herself.

 

So she did not lose...it was a very complicated and technical area of law and her fight now will be to add up all those figures! Poor hells.

 

Then she will be ready to fight the case again! So not lost anything, just more work to get there...so keep believing and remember, that the law system is not easily understood but there is help out there when you ask!

 

Never lay down and die....up up and try! Keep believing everyone! If anything Hells just saved lots of people with what has happened..more learning!

 

She didn't lose...she learnt and has more determination to fight back with more knowledge....watch out for her thread...its going to be wicked when she is done.

 

Hugs to hells...x

 

ChloeJane

 

You are absolutely right... the issue being fought was irrelevent - what she wanted was her data split from business and personal in order to pull out the penalty charges.

 

OK Hels, you need to use a reasonable measure of identifying your penalty charges from the years they have not given you splits for. It's not ideal but there is way of doing this:

 

Look at each year 2004 -2006 and work out each quarter's business charges as a % of the average month end balance for each of the 3 months

eg £300 charges and balances £2000, £3000, £1000 = 300/((2000+3000+1000)/3) x 100

= (300/2000)x100 = 300/20=15% - so - because each quarter because of trading patterns will be similar to corresponding years, add all the Q1 % together in 2004, 2005, 2006 eg 15 + 17 + 13 = 45 and divide by no of years (3) gives you an average business cost in Q1 of 15%

 

Look at your 2001 Q1 and total the month end balances say, £1500, £500, £1000 = £3000 / by 3 = £1000 take your Q1 15% figure and multiply by that and you get 1000x15/100= £150

 

What you arrive at is a pro-rata basis for calculating business charges based loosely on turnover. Now deduct these from the total charge figure and you will see the penalty charge you need to claim. Assemble the totals you are claiming back.

 

 

Remember, when you do go to court part of the POC will be and I will paraphrase - these are penalty charges as defined in the various acts and case studies provided, and all the other evidence. If Barclays disputes this then I challenge them to prove to me for each transaction I am claiming why it is not a penalty.

 

So you see, since they claim that they do NOT have the information to split out the Business charge - errrr how exactly are they going to prove it is not a penalty???

 

Z

[dar£n]

knowing the judge Helen had she would probably instruct Helen to prove they ARE penalties.

 

hope it works though, good plan Zubo

[hels bells]

wow Zubo your mathmatical ability is owesome and baffling to me , but i think i get the jist slightly, what i will do is give you an accurate amount of charges [ but without contractul interest] for the sake of seeing how you mathmatically would work out your theories.

 

2000-2003 total bank charges for this period devoid of interest is £6719.00, Chloe is happy to help me thankgod, but could you show me how to work out [with your theory] what you have written so i don,t have to give her to much to do

 

Obviously 2003-06 charges are going to be more speciifc as i have the breakdown, and i hoped i could find my other years statements but alas it seems it is not to be so i will have to SAR the bank again and request my statements from the beginning our acount was opened to 1999.

 

thanks so much

 

hels

[hels bells]

Zubo

ps ,not having the breakdown of the above charges i can only corilate all of the amounts stated on my statements prior to 2003, unfortunatly the banks cannot prove the charges were lawful or reasnable as they do not hold the breakdown data. Oh shame .

 

hels:rolleyes:

[zubo]

Zubo

ps ,not having the breakdown of the above charges i can only corilate all of the amounts stated on my statements prior to 2003, unfortunatly the banks cannot prove the charges were lawful or reasnable as they do not hold the breakdown data. Oh shame .

 

hels:rolleyes:

 

exactly my point ...

 

Hels, lets try and keep a lid on this, pm me and chloe and let me have the data to work with. I need the years you have breakdown 2003-2006 - all the quarterly breakdowns, and the monthend balances to calculate an average non-penalty charge.

 

Please bear in mind that Mon/Tuesday I am extremely busy and I am flying off on a weeks holiday Wednesday, so I may not get to work on it until then. If you feel someone else can help instead, don't mind me... it's your thread...

 

Z

[hels bells]

Zubo

 

i guess your mind is elsewhere for the time being, have a good one, hope theirs no sharks !!!!!!!! to bite your bum!!

 

hels:D

[zubo]

Zubo

 

i guess your mind is elsewhere for the time being, have a good one, hope theirs no sharks !!!!!!!! to bite your bum!!

 

hels:D

 

its not my bum I'm worried about ...:-D:-D:-D

[photoman]

Hells,

In response to your PM, I am posting here a copy of the SAR follow up/LBA letter I sent to my Bank. It seems it was taken seriously, as I have recieved a lot more information since sending it.

You will need to read up on the processes for filing a complaint with the ICO, and also prepare a draft for filing court action. You can do these whilst waiting for a response.

I have not read your thread yet, so I hope this is what you are after?

I will try to have a read of your thread, but perhaps you may wish to give me a condensed version of events ?

Feel free to modify and use this as you feel best.

regards

Photoman

 

 

SAR NON-COMPLIANCE.

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBERS: xxxx

xxxx

xxxx

Dear Sir/ Madam

Thank you for the information you recently provided me with regards my Data Protection Act Request. Unfortunately however it does not fulfil my request.

It appears that my original request was either not read properly, or was misinterpreted.

In light of all the recent publicity regards the reclaiming of bank charges, most Banks appear to now only be providing a summary breakdown of charges in response to all and any Data requests.

My requirements are actually for all information regards my banking history held by yourselves. So for the avoidance of doubt I do actually require all such information.

It seems a lot of banks are also wrongly interpreting the Data Protection Act (DPA) 1998 as a requirement to only disclose six years worth of personal data, and this is also wholly wrong.

The DPA clearly states that all information held must be disclosed and it has no correlation to the Limitation act 1980 at all.

You have only provided me with partial information regards accounts xxxxx, and xxxxx, which is far from complete, and not in accordance with my request. (Interestingly though, you have provided some screen printouts that indicate that much, if not all of this information does indeed exist, yet still you have not provided it)?

Despite my request, I have also received no information at all regards accounts; xxxxx, xxxxxx and xxxxxx, no acknowledgement of my request, and no explanation as to why the information has not been provided.

 

Once again I now ask that you provide me with all records relating to my banking history with yourselves regards the above accounts.

 

Whilst not exhaustive and for the avoidance of doubt I shall list what I require:

 

• Full copies of all contracts that exist between myself and your organisation; including copies of any documents you hold in support of same.
  
• Copies of all statements relating to the above accounts.
  
• Copies of all correspondence, including all letters, faxes, emails and memos sent and received between ourselves, and any other third party in relation to any of the above accounts.
  
• Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information including copies of any contracts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.
  
• Full details and copies of any documents upon which you relied when you have provided my personal or financial information to any individual, organisation or third party.
  
• Full copies or transcripts of any computer logs or database records kept in relation to myself or in relation to my financial or personal information. .
  
• Details of all systems you currently have in place to ensure my personal or financial information is kept securely, including details of those officers who currently have control of same, and at the time it was held or provided to a third party.
  
• Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, the methods used to do so, including dates, reason for deletion, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.

As I have previously issued this request, and given you a full 40 days to comply, I can not now be expected to wait the same period again, so shall give you a further 14 days from the date this letter is deemed served, in order to comply. If retrieval of any of this information should require longer than this, I would like an explanation as to why, and a reasonable estimate of the length time it should require (up to a maximum of 40 days).

In the meantime I would like any information that is more readily accessible to be sent without delay.

I have previously provided you a cheque for £10 to cover the cost of this request.

Please contact me to arrange a secure method and time to deliver to my home address.

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

You have 14 days to comply with this request.

If you fail to comply fully I shall enter a formal complaint with the Information Commissioners Office, which could result in a fine and prosecution. I will also seek to force compliance through the courts which will incur considerable additional costs for yourselves.

 

 

ps: I can't remember if you've subscribed to the Business claims thread I've started? If not, the link is in my signature. Have a read and subscribe.

[hels bells]

hi all

 

not gone away just pre-occupied with lots of others stuff, but hopefully by Friday my time will be dedicated to continue my quest. Thanks photoman and Glenn & C/J and anyone i have missed for the ongoing support and encouragement.

 

hold on to your hats cos here i go again!!!!!!!

ps. photoman i will use certain extracts of your SAR, is great !

 

hels:)

[dar£n]

Cmon Helen, where have you gone?

You havent give up have you?

Or are you living in the Bahamas now following your win?

[hels bells]

To all you peeps who are wondering whats happening, this is where i,m at: the update on my present situation is this: as you probably know i lost in court against Barclays, i was trying to get specific data, notification of charges to be exact, but according to the barrister they do not have them for more than 3 years, nor do they have a policy which states this, i had lost of evidence to the contray but the lady judge was not interested at all! i also had a written record of all converstaions between me and Barclays whereby i ordred this data on 3 occasions but nevertheless she did not want to read it, the judge said 'i had been mis-informed' end off !. i cannot appeal due to not having a lawful reason to do so, i have not recived the bill for the cost [ as the judge awarded the costs against me] but i expect them to be £2k. What i have done tho is ordered the transcript from court and reported this case to the Information Commissioners Office, and asked them to investigate if a breech of the Data Protection Act /and or S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) has accured. I,m hoping, having spoken to the [information Commissioners Office]that they write to confirm a breech as they informed me over the phone that a policy should have been provided to back up what they stated, on record i have the barrister stating they have no such policy for this data. I have sent another S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) requesting all banking history [data] with Barclays and at present i am slightly concerned as only 6 days left [ out of 40] and i have not heard anything back. My concern is they my feel they honour my request way back when they sent 6 years statements but i have letters from barcalys to other customers which state data retention is 12 years, so i alittle unsure what to do about no data received as yet.

 

please comment where you see fit, any advise is always welcome.

 

hels bells

[dar£n]

Hi Helen, good to see you back here babe.

 

I am having the same trouble with My 2nd SAR, Non Compliance.

 

have just completed the complaint form and sending it in tomorrow with all the supporting correspondence.

 

will let you know if i hear anything of any use to you.

[hels bells]

Hi Dar£n

 

tell me more please, am i right in thinking you have sent an SAR and given the normal 40 days and no repsonce, have you had 6 years worth and ae going for more or is this a 6 years request from a new claim.

 

hels

nice to be backx

[dar£n]

yes, my first claim was back to 2001.

At that time I was unaware that we could claim back further than this.

So once settled I decided to go for the remainder.

1993 to 2001.

but its very slow going at the moment.

[hels bells]

hi dar£n,

 

what bank is that you are with ?, still not heard anything from Barclays for account history, 40 days end next Monday !!!

think its maybe time for Photomans LBA, what do you think?

 

hels