hells bells

[hels bells]

Hi

 

please help after finally working out how to use a thread, sent SAR to Barclays, they sent back statments for 6 years but being in businesss i need notification of charges which they sent 2003-06 but say they do not have to release 2000-03. The sencond letter was sent to the bank and they have written back saying they have sent my request to thier data protection team, do i continue as the website instructs as cannot find any threads on business info.

 

help :-|

[hels bells]

hi

 

hopefully someone is out there and my thread will be picked up,..........please, it taken me 3 months to stop jumping on everyone elses's threads , so may i take this opportunity to offer a sincere appology for anyone who is cross with me, my internet skills are slowly progressing. please forgive:oops:

[Glenn UK]

Helen

 

DO i understand you correctly that you are claiing on a business acount and the bank have said they dont have to supply data further back than 2003?

 

Do they give any reason at all?

 

I know the Data Protection Act is about protecting the data subject, ie a living human being and this may impact on how this is/may be applied to a business account depending on how the business is constituted.

 

It would be good to see if anyone else has a view on how DPA and a business works.

 

Glenn

[hels bells]

HI Glenn uk

 

WOW fab, at last someone talks to me, thanks so much, the just said verbally at first that they had spoken to thier Data protection team and berfore 2003 is not classed as my personal data, and is stored away, i asked for this to be put in writing, which they did stating Barclays policy but quoted no referrence to which policy i then sent another letter requesting what was missing, the rang me saying my request is being past on the Data protection team, i asked for this to be put it writing also, but do i continue as the site suggests with the personal accounts ect, next letter giving 14 days ect or ??????????court action trying to get info for first step, this can only happen to me.

 

thanks again

[bennyowen]

Helen, nobody is cross with you. We are all fighting one course, saying NO to penalty charges. Do not relent in your effort to claim yours back. If you have been charged, it is legally yours and you have to claim it back.

 

Good luck.

[Glenn UK]

So if i understand you correctly they havent quoted any statute but simply company policy that data before 2003 is not 'personal data' is that correct?

 

Secondly i would recommend that when they write to you saying you cant have it, you have to respond restating your right to the data coupled with confirming how long they have left for complaince.

 

That way should it get to court you can show that you never accepted their contention that you were not entitled to the data.

 

Ultimately i am not certain when business data is personal data. if youre a sole trader with your account in the form of ms smith and you use the same account for personal use then imho there is no doubt you are entitled to the data.

 

if on theother hand its ABC window cxleaners or such like and youre a signatory then im not sure.

 

Sorry if that doesnt help much.

 

Perhpas if you could set out when/what you have done and some details about the accounts people can help you out.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[lorwiggins]

Having read the topic on Barclays and their Microfische dilemma maybe they are trying to say that the information is stored on their microfische and therefore they don't need to provide it? If that is the case then they are wrong, so maybe you can get the statements after all.

[hels bells]

hi

lorwiggins

 

No they did not quote microfische unfortunalty, they just said its their policy not to go back more than 3 years on notification of charges as they do not class it has personal data. But my business account is soley in my business name and my husband and i are the only partners. so wot do you think guys

[lorwiggins]

I am undoubtedly the thickest person here so you don't want to be asking me! I have tried to read this site but it all goes completely over my head! I am hoping that my partner can do it all because having got 6 years of statements from Barclays I can't understand a word they say!!!

 

Good luck with your claim, I hope you get money back, it may come in time to be an Easter present!!

[hels bells]

So if i understand you correctly they havent quoted any statute but simply company policy that data before 2003 is not 'personal data' is that correct?

 

Secondly i would recommend that when they write to you saying you cant have it, you have to respond restating your right to the data coupled with confirming how long they have left for complaince.

 

That way should it get to court you can show that you never accepted their contention that you were not entitled to the data.

 

Ultimately i am not certain when business data is personal data. if youre a sole trader with your account in the form of ms smith and you use the same account for personal use then imho there is no doubt you are entitled to the data.

 

if on theother hand its ABC window cxleaners or such like and youre a signatory then im not sure.

 

Sorry if that doesnt help much.

 

Perhpas if you could set out when/what you have done and some details about the accounts people can help you out.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

 

 

hi Glenn

 

Yep ok, here goes.

 

My husband and i are sole traders in the catering trade, we have a business account where money is paid in and cheques are paid out, D/D and S/O opertate out of this account as well. the account is in the business name but our names are on the account also. We have been ripped off for years but until now belived we could do nothing about it, re-referral fees, re refered cheques ect, prob runs into at least 5k over 6 years but need notification of charges which are sent quarterly with a breakdown of what we have been charged for, without this it would be quess work as we understand it cost to pay in, take out, go for change, write cheques ect, but they have had a field day with us for a long time, some times our quarterly charges have been £1k with £1,500 interest, how does that work!!! we have never ahd an overdraft but yet we have been charged for moneys over drawn massivley etc.

 

I just followed same fomat as everyone else on this site, sent SAR with £10, manager rand me and asked why i needed them, so i told him, then the statements were sent but no breakdown from, 2000-03 sent another letter requesting missing stuff ect, thats when they send they had sent my request to theri DAta protection team and they will respond i presume.

 

is that enough for now,

 

thankyou for helping.

[Glenn UK]

It is enough Helen

 

For the data to be personal it has to relate to a living person, since youre posting here that must at least include you and hopefully your husband too.

 

On top of that from the account data it must be possible to identify the subject ie you or your husband by reference to that data.

 

So when you say your names were on the account was it xxxx catering/mr and mrs smith on your statements?

 

If it is then id say its alsmot certainly data within the act and they must supply all they have on a relevant filing system for the whole period not just the last six years.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[MARTIN3030]

Helen 2 threads of yours merged......please try and keep all your claim related posts in here:)

[hels bells]

Hi Glenn

 

using work computer so only in use office hours,

 

Our account has the name of our business then our both our names Mr. & Mrs **** address etc, does that make it our personal data, i thought it did???

 

Do i send the next letter to the bank which is due on the 18 jan given them another 14 days to comply, then the 7 day letter before action ect at this stage i only want the info, first stage stuff, wot will they be like when i submit the claim.

 

cheer for your time.

 

ps sorry for merging threads, hope i,ve got the hang of this now.:o

[hels bells]

Hi again

 

wanted to add, having re-read thier letter and i quote "due to bank retention of document policy, we are only able to provide you with a breakdown of charges for the last 3 years, sorry if this is not the outcome you wanted.

 

wot do u think, is this a new line of attack from them, could anyone shed any light on this.

 

thankyou:confused:

[Glenn UK]

Helen

 

You need to write back asking something along the lines 'for the avoidance of doubt can you confirm that you have destroyed my historical data and if so when and why? If you state this is line with your company policy then I would be obliged for a copy of that policy since I will be requiring production of this document when i file at court for non-compliance with Section 7 of the Data Protection Act'.

 

Oh and is the account still open? If it is then you need to put something in there about that too.

 

Glenn

[hels bells]

Hi Glenn

 

Thanks for that i will do what you suggest, having doubled checked my stateents they all begin with our name Mr * Mrs **** then the name of our business and our home addess, so you would think this is personal data covered by the SAR would you not?

My next letter to the bank is not due until 18 Jan, shall i send what you suggest then, adding they have 7 days by which to reply or court action, hopefully Judge Forester now knows the name of Barclays Data Protection controller, as we do Mr. Towsend isn,t it?

 

Thanks for all your help Glenn, if you cannot reply today before 3.15 i will look again on Monday, but this thursday the next letter is due.

 

thanks again. your a star;)

[hels bells]

Sorry Glenn forgot to ask

 

If i have to go to court for my info is it an M1 form i completre and do i quote any laws ect HELP! direct me to a site if you can as i have not seen this on what i have read its usually getting the money where guidance is offered.

 

Thanks you again;)

[Glenn UK]

Hi Glenn

 

Thanks for that i will do what you suggest, having doubled checked my stateents they all begin with our name Mr * Mrs **** then the name of our business and our home addess, so you would think this is personal data covered by the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) would you not? i would say that since you could be identified by referecne to the data then its Data under the DPA. There is a link to the DPA in the statute library, i would suggest if you have a minute, well Ok, an hour, have a scan through it and get a feel for what it says it will help you understand where im coming from and hopefully help you to deal with them on this issue.

My next letter to the bank is not due until 18 Jan, shall i send what you suggest then, adding they have 7 days by which to reply or court action, hopefully Judge Forester now knows the name of Barclays Data Protection controller, as we do Mr. Towsend isn,t it?Personally i wouldnt wait, i know there isnt much time but i would write back stating that they have your data and that they are obliged to provide it under the DPA, and they have x days to comply.

That way when it comes to court, you can show that you have given them every chance to comply and that you have refulted their contention at every step of the way.

 

Thanks for all your help Glenn, if you cannot reply today before 3.15 i will look again on Monday, but this thursday the next letter is due.

 

thanks again. your a star;)

 

Sorry couldnt respond on time, I respond from work mostly during the day while im on the phone or waitng for somehting to print out.

 

Glenn

[Glenn UK]

Sorry Glenn forgot to ask

 

If i have to go to court for my info is it an M1 form i completre and do i quote any laws ect HELP! direct me to a site if you can as i have not seen this on what i have read its usually getting the money where guidance is offered.

 

Thanks you again;)

 

No tis an N1, there are some links around, not sure if there is one in the template library.

 

I have posted particulars of claim for my claims against Abbey and Barclaycard so check out Glenn Vs Abbey or Glenn Vs Barclaycard for examples to crib from.

 

there are obviously others about to look at plus of course the template library too.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[hels bells]

Hi Glenn

 

Just reeived a letter from Barclays Data Protection mananger, Peter Townsend, here goes; Please be advised that this information [notificaton of charges] is retained by the bank in detailed electronic format for a period covering only the last 3 years, prior to this the data can be extracted from account statements. As the Data Protection Act does not give rise to an obligation to present information in any particular format, our responsiblity would be limited to the production of duplicate statements.

 

It goes on about getting duplicate statments if required ect etc, . I have statements going back years, but if they will not give me the breakdown of those charges as in what i have been charged for, am i left with putting in a guestimate figures when i request the charges back, they would be accurate for 2003-06 but 2000-03 would be a rough ish guess.

 

wot do you think.

[Glenn UK]

No they are playing with words

 

You are entitled to your data in a form you can read and understand and thats about all the Data Protection Act says as i recall.

 

If you used the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) template from the library it tells them exactly what they are to provide and it says that statements would be acceptable. If someone from the bank has to sit down for a week writing out your data thats their problem, they have the oiption to copy the statements and send them to you if its easier.

 

For information during my discussions with the Information Commissioners Office they now consider that almost anything in a filing system would be 'a relevant filing system' and so would be subject to the DPA. For clairifcation the personnel files in my office consisting of buff folders with copies of letters in it would probalby be considered as a relevant filing system So if asked, we would have to extract the required data and send it to the subject. Barclays are no different.

 

You need to write back and repudiate their claims, restate your requirements and re assert your rights to take them to court should they fail to supply.

 

If you want to draft somehting that fits your cirucmstances and post the draft up here, then i would be happy to have a look and comment if you want.

 

The basic premise of the DPA is that if they have data and its in a relevant filing system then they have to supply you with that information in a form that you can read and understand.

 

This all has to be porvided under Section 7 of the DPA, end of.

 

If you do decide to take them to court under the DPA then you might like to consider claiming damages in your estimated amount.

 

Otherwise estimates have a number of problems imho.

 

Dont worry i reckon you'll get your data if they have it, it may not be quick but you will get it.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

 

PS emma, my wife wondered if there was any change to the account details between the two periods? I am presuming not.

[hels bells]

hi Glenn

 

Ok i will do my best to type something up but will let you have it before i send it on,

 

let Emma know that our account as stayed the same, same account number, same sort code, our name, name of business, and our address, not changed in 11 years at least.

 

thanks again guys.

[hels bells]

hi Glenn

 

its monday afternoon and i have spent alot of the weekend reading things on this site that i have printed off. what i wanted to check before i put pen to paper is, the bank has sent all my statements, all 6 years of them, but each quarter the bank statement tell us waht the bank has charged for their sevices in the previous quarter, he is an example.

'

Advance Notificaton of charges' [separate statements]

 

monies paid in @ 49p per £100= £25.00

change required @ 35p per £100= £3.50

cheques paid out @ 25p per cheque= £3.50

re- referred fee 15 @ £30.00 each= £450.00

 

total charges= £482.00

interest on charges= £210.00

Total £692.00

this will be taken out of your account on ****date.

 

these statements are what the bank will not send me. the statements that they have sent just inform of the total taken not the breakdown of what was for what.

 

somehow tho i still feel this info should be supplied don,t you? if i have to go to court for this info or if i put in guesstimated figures in for 2000-03 and recalim all the charges reasonable or not the bank would have to produce the info to defend my claim, thier fore having to pruce a breakdown of charges which is waht i,m trying to get.

 

any ideas how to compile the next letter.

 

you are very kind thankyou.

[Glenn UK]

Helen

 

Have a look at this thread, its a similar issue and theres a proposed letter a couple of posts down from this one.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/50532-tanzarelli-barclaycard-7.html#post488368

 

I am certain they are yanking your chain, they think you don't know what you're entitled to, its entirely possible that the person your communicating with doesn't either from what i can make out.

 

Anyway don't be fooled into thinking the bank has to produce your info to refute the claim, they don't, its up to you that you have paid the charges its one of the problems with estimated claims.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

 

PS re kindness, you wont say that when i send the invoice through , LOL seriously though, its only passing on what i have picked up and it has cost me nothing so passing it on is perhaps payment for the help i have had.

[hels bells]

hi Glenn

is this letter the LBA then?

 

I am in reciept of the documents that you have supplied in response to my data protection act information request dated 09/12/06,17/12/06,04/01/07. The disclosure of personal data is incomplete in that at least the following documents are missing. You have failed to provide a complete list of charges requested particulalry the 'Advanced notification of charges for 2000-03. they are the breakdown of quarterly charges specifically for the said years that you know about which are not included. I might add that the 2003-06 Ad No Ch were typed individually and not sent in statement foramt, this is a perfectly accepted foramt for the remainder on my request.

 

Accordingly, i ahve to tell you that you ahvenot yet complied with your obligation under the D.P A 1998 section 7. I am willing to accept this data in any legilble and understandable format aas previously stated.

In an effort to avoid the possibleity of court action can you please supply the above requested information. In the event that the requested inof is not forthcoming within the statutory period i will insitgate court action under section 7 of the DPA 1998. If you do not comply fully with my SAR within 7 days, i shall apply to the courts for an order to enforce compliance, together with damages at the discretion of the court.

 

Glenn feel free to adjust in any way u see fit, do i head the letter LBA or SAR.

 

my not get back on site till 4.30. do your best

thanks:)